Search found 310 matches

by Hügelwilli
Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:33 pm
Forum: Column Builds
Topic: Liquid collector on the bottom of the coloumn
Replies: 10
Views: 529

Re: Liquid collector on the bottom of the coloumn

Higher alcohols (fusel alcohols) have a volatility higher than ethanol at low abv and a volatility lower than ethanol at high abv. So the low abv in downer part of the column makes them rise up the column and the high abv in the upper part of the column makes them drop down the column. So they accum...
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:11 am
Forum: General Stilling questions
Topic: I need some math equation help...
Replies: 15
Views: 521

Re: I need some math equation help...

It's also possible to calculate mixtures with different units. And even give out the result with another unit: Screenshot (413).png You also could add the temperature when measuring the volume. When you measure 1gal at 25°C, it will be less gal at 20°C. And contraction is taken into account. This me...
by Hügelwilli
Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:20 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

All they can do is to use ripe but not already degraded fruits, not to use pectolytic enzymes or only special ones with lower effect but less methanol release, and distill as soon as possible after fermentation. And perhaps a lower fermentation temperature helps too, if you use a yeast that likes lo...
by Hügelwilli
Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:56 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

Internet searches on methanol and spirit distillation brings up research / studies on methanol being more concentrated in heads or in tails during distillation with methanol being present throughout the run. Yes It seems both scenarios are possible depending on what style of still is used and how i...
by Hügelwilli
Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:34 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

I also took time to share knowledge. And it is nothing new here that a member gets offended by posts with bad information. I don't think I was rude compared to what's tolerated here.
by Hügelwilli
Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:06 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

But why making it more complicated than it is? Why at all mentioning hydrogen bonds? Also Ethanol has strong hydrogen bonds, what probably has a great impact on the distillation process. But do we talk about? No, we say, the boiling point of x%abv is y°C and the abv of the vapor is z. And we don't t...
by Hügelwilli
Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:04 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

And yes @Hugelwilli, the analogy of creating space between molecules is exactly what I mean to say. Introducing high proof to a batch system does not break the bond. Dilution is a requisite for an optimal outcome. Here from "Th Alcohol Textbook", in the chapter "From pot stills to co...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:24 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

Now we are going back and forth. I can answer: yes, in the image the demethylizer is the apparatus you are asking for. Or I can answer: No, apparently there is no apparatus for only removing methanol, there are multi column apparati for cleaning spirits and one part/column of it is for methanol remo...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:21 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

Are you implying that a single column is all that is necessary to remove methanol? Yes, exactly. One column distillation with already almost aceotrope in the feed and no added water steam. Think of it kinda like stripping off old paint. First you scrape off the loose bits with your scraper. Then ap...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:19 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

All right, I see, there are probably two columns before and you already start with almost aceotrope. But nevertheless the removing of the methanol only happens at Col-3, the other two columns are for removing other stuff. Here a similar process, but the drawing is easier to understand I think: Scree...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:43 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Methanol
Replies: 59
Views: 3073

Re: Methanol

Here is an example of the process flow needed to break the hydrogen bond. Screenshot_20240104-072328_Gmail.jpg I think this is misleading. This is the whole process from wash to neutral alcohol, not only the methanol removal. And "breaking the hydrogen bond" sounds much too complicated. Y...
by Hügelwilli
Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:15 am
Forum: Safety and Related Issues
Topic: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study
Replies: 17
Views: 1062

Re: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study

I am sorry Bolverk. Of course it was not you. :silent:
by Hügelwilli
Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:04 am
Forum: Safety and Related Issues
Topic: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study
Replies: 17
Views: 1062

Re: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study

A quote from the study: The investigation shows that there is in g/hl p.a. an increase of methanol contents during the distillation and especially in the last fractions (tailings). This is caused by the fact that methanol is, in spite of the lower boiling point (64,8 °C) compared to ethanol (78,3 °C...
by Hügelwilli
Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:21 pm
Forum: Safety and Related Issues
Topic: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study
Replies: 17
Views: 1062

Re: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_volatility Relative volatility is a measure comparing the vapor pressures of the components in a liquid mixture of chemicals. This quantity is widely used in designing large industrial distillation processes.[1][2][3] In effect, it indicates the ease or difficu...
by Hügelwilli
Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:21 pm
Forum: Safety and Related Issues
Topic: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study
Replies: 17
Views: 1062

Re: Methanol concentrate in the tails according an EC study

This is BS. Of course the methanol amount has to be divided by the ethanol or otherwise to compare them. The results purport to show that methanol increases in concentration not in the first cut of the pot-still distillation, but in the tails, in direct conflict with common knowledge and boiling-poi...
by Hügelwilli
Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:22 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Azeotrope questions
Replies: 23
Views: 1344

Re: Azeotrope questions

The actual science of why a damned phase diagram and you guys on here have said that starting with pure ethanol in a distillation will yield a lower abv/abm (azeotrope) in the collection flask yet through experimentation I found that it didn’t happen, and it left me with anhydrous ethanol. I also a...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:58 am
Forum: My First .....
Topic: My first apricot jam sorta brandy
Replies: 14
Views: 893

Re: My first apricot jam sorta brandy

No, the enzyme does the same thing: It breaks down the pectin and then a part of it will be methanol, because the pectin has methylized parts. So using the enzyme leads to more methanol than not using it. There are enzymes that don't break the methylized connections, but those enzymes help less to t...
by Hügelwilli
Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:03 am
Forum: My First .....
Topic: My first apricot jam sorta brandy
Replies: 14
Views: 893

Re: My first apricot jam sorta brandy

Also homemade jam is made with pectin normally. You don't add only sugar to the fruits normally. You also add pectin and citric acid. If you then have twice the amount pectin instead of what the fruits have itself, you probably will have twice the amount methanol in the ferment and therefore twice t...
by Hügelwilli
Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:29 pm
Forum: My First .....
Topic: My first apricot jam sorta brandy
Replies: 14
Views: 893

Re: My first apricot jam sorta brandy

Isn't jam normally made with added pectine?
by Hügelwilli
Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:52 pm
Forum: My First .....
Topic: My first apricot jam sorta brandy
Replies: 14
Views: 893

Re: My first apricot jam sorta brandy

Is it safe to ferment jam? I doubt because of the pectine -> methanol reaction.
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:23 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit
Replies: 55
Views: 2453

Re: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

...but distillation separates fractions based on boiling point. In my mind that’s also weight, lighter/heavier... No. This is 100% wrong. The answer is the volatility of the substances. This is the reason why something comes over earlier or later and more or less concentrated. And the volatility ha...
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jun 25, 2023 12:36 pm
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit
Replies: 55
Views: 2453

Re: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

Nah, at first bluefish says it's the molecular weight, then he says it's the boiling point.
And now you say it's smearing what causes to evaporate some substances earlier and other substances later?
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jun 25, 2023 11:35 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit
Replies: 55
Views: 2453

Re: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

This would mean that Methanol is in the heads. And the Rum-pineapple-ester ethyl butyrate with boiling point 121°C would remain in the boiler. Same the banana-scent isoamyl acetate with 142°C boiling point.
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jun 25, 2023 6:45 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit
Replies: 55
Views: 2453

Re: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

But the lightest molecules are the ones of water. And water clearly doesn't accumulate at the top of a column.

And otherwise it doesn't make sense too:
If the heavy ones are at the top, acetic acid would come before the hearts. But it is clearly a tails substance.
by Hügelwilli
Sun Jun 25, 2023 12:06 am
Forum: Novice Distillers
Topic: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit
Replies: 55
Views: 2453

Re: Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

bluefish_dist wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 8:51 pm ... a batch (pot or column) still separates the components by molecular weight and time.
:?:
So at first come the heavy molecules and then the light ones? Or otherwise?
by Hügelwilli
Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:27 am
Forum: General Stilling questions
Topic: ABV of low wines in your boiler (neutral spirit production)
Replies: 31
Views: 1563

Re: ABV of low wines in your boiler (neutral spirit production)

Harley, there are dozens of studies about the volatility of congeners in spirits. And about the relative volatility to the one of ethanol. Volatility is the key word here, not bonding to water or boiling points. Those studies is what you should searching for. They should answer all your questions (e...
by Hügelwilli
Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:09 am
Forum: Rum
Topic: Butyric acid supplement
Replies: 13
Views: 714

Re: Butyric acid supplement

Is hydrochloric acid the same like table salt?

So perhaps calcium magnesium butyrate is not the same like butyric acid?
by Hügelwilli
Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:40 pm
Forum: Research and Theory
Topic: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio
Replies: 20
Views: 1845

Re: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio

haggy, what I wrote about "guessing" was mainly towards shadylane not towards you. The only thing I didn't like was that you want to rate the reflux ratio against other factors like the number of plates. This sounds a bit like asking a mathematician what's more important, subtraction or ad...
by Hügelwilli
Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:20 pm
Forum: Research and Theory
Topic: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio
Replies: 20
Views: 1845

Re: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio

Yummyrum, the question is, for what use you want to find out the reflux ratio. I think, shadylane has no real use for this number, so he doesn't have to care about. But haggy wants to calculate something with it. And at the end there could be a calculated result that looks precise, because it is a n...
by Hügelwilli
Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:07 am
Forum: Research and Theory
Topic: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio
Replies: 20
Views: 1845

Re: A Quick Way to Find Reflux Ratio

The vapor speed is almost independent from the abv. Only the distillate speed depends a lot on the abv. The reason for this is, that the difference in volume between vapor and liquid is very high for water and much lower for ethanol. For example vapor made with 1000 watt in a pipe with 20mm inner di...