take off rates

[googe]

Hey all, someone recently asked a similar question on this and it's something that's always puzzled me. I want to know your take off rates and how you achieve it. We see some amazing rates claimed and it's always puzzled me how they achieve it, unless there talking out there ass. I'd like some true figures, not some inflated ego figures , of you do, I'd love an explanation of how you achieve it!. I'm mainly interested in single run flavoured figures, but stripped floured figures are ok for comparison. I use 3 bubble caps on a 4 inch column, gas burner, my ideal rate is 1.8~2 lph for a nice product. I can push that to 2.2 lph but quality drops. Thanks for any feedback.

[SoMo]

In a strip run on propane I can run 8 minute quarts it's screaming power and coolant flow, I don't know how to prove it outside of a video or something. 10 gallon charge in a few hours start to finish heat up to boil is 25-35 minutes depending on starting temp of wash or mash, my 2" column and Goliath liebig.

Spirit run is 15-20 minutes a quart 500mil increments every 4-5 minutes depends on heads hearts or tails I try to run hearts fairly slowly but consistently and as hearts fade I try to hold out turning up the heat to draw them out.

[T-Pee]

1-1/2" CM column, propane-fired 15 gallon boiler, normally 8-9 gallon charges. Pic in signature.
Always single runs, I run minimal cooling in the condenser with a nice temp gradient (top 1/4 hot), a minor amount of reflux running, fully-packed column of copper scrubbies with a small amount of resistance to air blown through.
For flavored drinks, (whiskey, etc) a hard heatup in 20 minutes then equalize for 20 minutes at full reflux then turn down the RC for a takeoff rate of 250ml every 7 minutes at ~80% and go until the temp spikes at the tails.The rig can do the same at 92+% for neutrals with more heat and more reflux flow. Runs are usually 3-4 hours depending on %.

How? Beats the hell out of me. Lucky, I guess. I haven't bothered to examine the why but accept the result and am happy with it.

tp

[bearriver]

Hound Dog has a similar still to me. He reports having the same run time in the "Lava rock information" thread. We both get around 3.7 Liters per hour for neutral. Water that down and you got 2 gallons of vodka per hour.

Here's how my last run went using lava rock for the first time. It was my most successful neutral run to date, and I feel It could have ran faster. The spirits came out perfect.

Quart of neutral (96%) every 15 minutes when entering the hearts, and every 20-25 when exiting the hearts
13 gallons of low wines at 25% ABV
3" LM column
Lava Rock packing finely sorted and sized below the size of a nickle
Propane turkey fryer turned all the way up

[googe]

Thanks fellas, good info there!. The packed columns seem to be pretty quick on low wines. My stats are close to yours though t pee, doing single runs, I just can't justify strip runs anymore, waist of time imo, when we can have a still you don't need to. But, that does sound like im loosing speed, but I guess that's balanced out without having to strip. Your rig is pretty impressive for a small scale setup tpee!. Od informed me he gets 3~4 lph and rock said he gets 4~5 lph, way more than my caps are capable of!.

[Sungy]

Im running a 6 plate 4 inch rig. 240 volt electric 5500watt element.
35 -45 min warm up of 12 gallons at 18Amps. When running vodka 6 plates, 4 Liter an hour @ 96% high reflux ratio. When running rye/rum I use 2 plates and run it really hard, very little reflux. Can get 6 liters an hour at 80%. I can get 2 runs (total 24 gallons) done in 6-8 hours which produces aprox 12 Liters before dilution.

[googe]

thanks sunga, I'm seeing a pattern here, most do low ABV for rums/whiskey, that would explain the high rate, I can achieve that too, but find the product below standard. Personal tastes mean alot hey!. I tend to blend my own and not let the still do it.

[emptyglass]

I get about 2.5 to 3 litres an hour at 93% from 5 plates on a 9 to 10% UJ wash. I can push harder, I've got up to 6 litres an hour, but its not running right and I only did it for shits and giggles. It tended to loose the ability to control what was happening.

On AG at 7ish%, I like to run it at about 2.5 L/hr, seems to carry more flavor over when not pushed hard.

Doing neutral runs with 5 plates and 2' of lava rock, about 2 L/hr is slow enough to clean up stinky rum and bourbon feints to 96%, but this is usually with a 25 to 30% low wines charge.

Wash or low wines (charge ABV/proof) can make a big difference to run speed. Speed isnt everything, its whats going in the glass or barrel that counts IMO.

[jedneck]

3 inch single plate on top of a thumper fed buy a keg running 3000 watts. i found best flavour for my taste is about 2 liters an hour.

[bellybuster]

btween 2.5 and 3 litres/hour on my 1.5" pot still. I had no idea I was running that fates until I measured when the older thread came up.
I have done a ton of experimenting with takeoff speed.
My conclusions???
too fast and quality suffers as well as quantity of nice hearts.
running any slower than twisted stream has no effect on product positive or negative

[Hound Dog]

Hound Dog has a similar still to me. He reports having the same run time in the "Lava rock information" thread. We both get around 3.7 Liters per hour for neutral. Water that down and you got 2 gallons of vodka per hour.

Here's how my last run went using lava rock for the first time. It was my most successful neutral run to date, and I feel It could have ran faster. The spirits came out perfect.

Quart of neutral (96%) every 15 minutes when entering the hearts, and every 20-25 when exiting the hearts
13 gallons of low wines at 25% ABV
3" LM column
Lava Rock packing finely sorted and sized below the size of a nickle
Propane turkey fryer turned all the way up

+1 for me. I run the low wines because it just seems to get more consistancy out of a slant plate.

[Odin]

Up to 4.5 liters of 96%+ per hour on a 30% low wines boiler charge. That's with my 2 inch diameter rig. I can use this approach on a vodka or on a pure whiskey with added feints. In potstill mode, on a single run approach, and with an 8% beer in the tank, I tune down power input and get around 2 to 2.5 liters of hearts per hour at 62%.

On my 4 inch diameter rig, I get a bit over 18 liters of 96%+ per hour on a 30% low wines boiler charge. In potstill mode, and on a single run approach, I get around 10 liters per hour at around 62%.

If I use my rigs for potdistilling in a single run, I need to throttle down, compared to pure azeo attack mode. The reason is easy: in potstill mode, and in a single run approach, you just need like 2 redistillations. The closer I get to wood aging abv, the better it is. Less watering down to do. So (almost) no reflux. And since there is limited reflux (only passive) and a limited amount of redistillations, tails control is less. Hence the need to power down. 1.6 KW is a pretty okay power input if I use my 2 incher for a potdistill finishing run.

In pure mode (azeo), more power creates more reflux, and the bigger amount of reflux lowers HETP and increases the number of redistillations. More power in actually gives more control and an even more stable run. Close to column flooding. For instance, I know my 2 inch diameter rig starts to show first signs (pressure read out) of flooding at 3.2 KW. Too much liquid for the column to handle. Or the beginning of it. So I run at 3.0 KW.

Edit: Hi Googe, I seem to be doing the same thing you already mentioned as the predominant patern: I use higher abv low wine charges for vodka and lower abv single runs when potdistilling.

Odin.

[Jimbo]

I do spirit runs at 16 minutes per quart at 2000W with a 12gal charge in a 15.5gal half barrel potstill.

Strips at 8 min per quart with 4000W

Balls out at 5500W pulls a quart every 5 min but I dont run it that hard.

Odin, 'home distiller' thread talking about 'home' rigs. Youre answering in a vague way regarding your commercial rigs. Watch it bud, youre walking a fine line here.

[Tater]

I use pot still 15 gal keg with worm sometimes a thumper also 7 gal with propane for heat. Pushing I can get qt every 15 minutes and do for rum but fruits I go 20 minutes sometime 25 minutes a qt seems to make it easier to define cuts. At the slower take off my setup has a pause to it when heads are done.If ya can stand the time push it till ya just get the twist and see what your take on it is.

[bearriver]

Doing a run right now. Pulled the first gallon of hearts in 45 minutes at 95-94%% ABV using the rig mentioned above. Smells and tastes like my typical BW.

[DAD300]

3" x 36" CCVM filled with SS SPP. Approx 5,000 watt heat up for 45 minutes, 3,000watts for takeoff, 1 liter a minute of coolant water, 12% rum or sugar wash, I can average a liter every 13 minutes at 95%.

Same rig filled with SS Scrubbies, a liter every 18-20 minutes.

For strip or carrying over max flavor, a liter every 5 minutes at 84%. Almost double the cooling flow.

[8 Mile Hillbilly]

I get a steady 4.5 litres per hr. on a 2" Booka 52" below the plates on a 10 gallon run with propane burner. First run at 60%, take out the best for my whiskey then pack the column and run again with a 40% start and get a 90 to 96% neutral. The product coming off is great and gets lots of compliments on it. Not sure why I manage this fast a rate from a 2" Booka but i must be doing something right. I find if I run the coolant to fast the % goes down, keep the cooling outflow just hot enough to touch seems to be the best. Don't know why you would think more coolant would be better but I think it then cools the returning liquid to much to reflux properly. Nice to see the twisted stream coming out at 90 to 96% with the temp variance calculated in.

P.S. I run a secondary coil to cool the output from the Booka

[DAD300]

8 Mile...you described Super Cooling the reflux perfectly. If the reflux is too cold, it can cause a flooded condition at the top of the column, even if the lower column isn't. It at least upsets the equilibrium of the vapors stacking.

Using your hands, "keep the cooling outflow just hot enough to touch" you just described approx 140F. That's the temp most can touch without recoiling! PERFECT exit water temp! Not too cool, but cool enough to prevent a vapor escape.

[Hound Dog]

Just did a run of low wines this weekend. Didn't pay too close attention but collected fores and first quart of heads real slow then speeded up a bit. Total from beginning of takeoff to first quart of tails was 3.5 gallons in 3 hours.

[srs787]

I am running a 7.5 gal. potstill !.5" propane. On strip runs I collect 1 pint in 5 to 8 min. depends on what it is. AG will run higher. Sugar washes to the lower time. On spirit runs at 40% the times are about 3 times higher than the strip runs also in pint jars.

[woodshed]

Without well defined parameters this thread is nothing but chest thumping.
Of no value imo.

[T-Pee]

I-dont-always-defibrillate.jpg (13.67 KiB) Viewed 6815 times

tp (diving for a dictionary)

[googe]

It is to a degree woodshed, we don't know what each other's stuff tastes like. Only people that have tasted each other's stuff can compare. That would be a good guide. Alot is low wines charges too, which makes high output easier. I should have been more descriptive with my question. Oh well, carry on.

[bearriver]

Everyone send a pint to Googe

Problem solved

[Jimbo]

Without well defined parameters this thread is nothing but chest thumping.
Of no value imo.

What kind of parameters you looking for shed? I stated "4000W for strippers, 2000W for spirit runs with a 12gal charge in a 15.5gal half barrel potstill". Seems the important shit to know when I say 8 and 18 minutes a quart?

Lots of people are tangled up on how fast to run their home rig. There's folks here all over the map up to 2 hours a quart on a potstill trying to hold 176F, and lots of questions in theforum and by PM. I think its a fair thread topic.

[Prairiepiss]

I get a steady 4.5 litres per hr. on a 2" Booka 52" below the plates on a 10 gallon run with propane burner. First run at 60%, take out the best for my whiskey then pack the column and run again with a 40% start and get a 90 to 96% neutral. The product coming off is great and gets lots of compliments on it. Not sure why I manage this fast a rate from a 2" Booka but i must be doing something right. I find if I run the coolant to fast the % goes down, keep the cooling outflow just hot enough to touch seems to be the best. Don't know why you would think more coolant would be better but I think it then cools the returning liquid to much to reflux properly. Nice to see the twisted stream coming out at 90 to 96% with the temp variance calculated in.

P.S. I run a secondary coil to cool the output from the Booka

4.5 lt an hour as a pot still. Isn't out of the ordinary. With the proper setups.

And you can't lump 90% in with 95%. The difference between the two may be small. But the difference of speed at which it comes off. And at witch how hard the still has to work to achieve it. Is a lot more then going from 10% to 60%.

Question is. What rate you getting that 95% off at?

You have to compare apples to apples. And oranges to oranges.

Boasting about a stripping run takeoff rate. Isn't much to boast about.

[srs787]

I am with you Jimbo. This can be a good thread. Most all posters on this thread state what they are running. I would like to see more potstillers running AG post rather than those running sugarheads on their slants, bubblers, flutes or what ever. But that's just me.

[Jimbo]

Thanks SRS. I dont think boasting or chest thumping has fuck all to do with this thread. Given the persistent mass confusion on run rate here at HD its a good thread.

[woodshed]

I think the thread could be great if it was split into specific scenarios.
A lot of info in this scenario will just get lost from all the jumping around.
Threads based on this topic actually comparing apples to apples could lead to a lot of useful info.

[Jimbo]

Agreed. Potstill and reflux discussion is like apples and elephants