Testing GNS

Distillation methods and improvements.

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Odin
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Testing GNS

Post by Odin »

Hi there,

Client of us had the idea of buying Grain Neutral Spirit in large quantities at 96% and use that for infusions. He had one problem with it. The alcohol tasted crappy. So his idea was to buy a fractionating rig to clean up the alcohol and that made sense. He came over and we had a run with my LM and the strangest thing happened. Normally, even if you add additional heads & tails to a wash, they stack very well in the top of the column, making the product that's stacked halfway up the column pretty much pure ethanol already. Well ... this time it was different!

First of all temperatures both at product outlet as well as halfway down the column were very, very low. Around 77 degrees C only, where ethanol boils at 78.2 (with normal variations being between 77.9 and 78.4 due to air pressure influences). Well stacked Heads close to product take-off may be 77.4.

Did the low temperature and the fact there was allmost no temperature differential between product out and stabilization half way down the column mean there was just an increadible amount of heads present in the product he bought? We tested some more, and the only conclusion is ... he bought heads and that's about it. We just couldn't seperate even the tiniest amount of hearts at normal temperatures.

It is just increadible what they sell you, if you are not careful!

More research is now performed by a scientific lab and if I know, I will update you guys. The customer reviewed his approach and will start fermenting his own alcohol.

Odin.
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MitchyBourbon
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by MitchyBourbon »

Sadly, it sounds like you are correct. What kind of person does something like that?
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skow69
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by skow69 »

Maybe they take the heads cuts from other products, rectify it, and bottle as GNS. It would meet the legal definition. They need to maximize profit. People usually just dump it into a bucket of fruit juice so nobody blames the liquor for bad taste. It kinda makes sense.

Let us know what the lab says, Odin. I'm dying to find out.

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Bagasso
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by Bagasso »

Odin wrote:some more, and the only conclusion is ... he bought heads and that's about it. We just couldn't seperate even the tiniest amount of hearts at normal temperatures.
Remember seeing this thread and hoping that the lab info would shed some light on things.

Reading the OP again the above quote doesn't sit well with me. Heads and hearts (and even tails) are not monolithic. They are a mixture of things.

Looking at Photonic's "Fusel Oil Lab Analysis Results" we see that he had almost 5000 mg/l of congeners in the fores sample. Using very rough math, that would be about 5cc/l. The sample was at 65.67% ABV so that means that 65% of that would be ethanol. If your above statement is true then that means that you can't seprate that 0.5% of congeners from the 65% ethanol in a heads fraction?
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Odin
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by Odin »

The client who bought the batch contacted the people who delivered it and in the end it came out the batch that they delivered was "not good". The distillery never got info on what was wrong and never sought to find out himself via lab consultancy and research. What I understand from him is that what he gets in now is giving normal readings.

Odin.
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by Bagasso »

"Not good" really doesn't say much. If it was a labeling/shipping and handling error then they probably already knew what was wrong.

I mean, if they sent out 99.9% acetone labeled GNS then there was no way to get ethanol out of it. I guess my point was that this could hardly be considered "heads".
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Odin
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by Odin »

Bagasso, boiling temps suggested it were though.

Odin.
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Re: Testing GNS

Post by Bagasso »

Odin wrote:Bagasso, boiling temps suggested it were though.
Should have said 99.9% ethyl acetate. Boiling temp wouldn't be much of an indicator in that case.

Without knowing what was actually in that lot there is no way of nowing if it had the make up of "heads" as we know it, mostly ethanol/water with a heavy dose of congeners, or if it was another rectified product with only a trace of ethanol as a congener. The later not really fit to be called "heads".

I know that it's just symantics but it makes communication more difficult.

ETA: Sorry, forgot to post the thought that was really on my mind, if what was delivered was actually a heads fraction (with a fair amount of ethanol) wouldn't this mean that there are other ethanol/??? azeotropes that just can't be seperated by distillation.

This made me think of the rates thread where people are talking gallons per hour take off and still getting a clean product. What happened to the smearing theory or the recommended 1-1.2 l/hr rate of a few years back?
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