Condenser Controlled Columns

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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F6Hawk
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by F6Hawk »

Maritimer wrote:Hi DADEOO,

I'm still trying to understand how the moving coil changes the reflux ratio. I need to know if the coolant temperature changes the output product rate, which would mean that the RR has changed. In my VM, I run the coolant through a recirculating radiator/fan setup. The power is during hearts is just a little more than the radiator can handle, so the temperature gradually rises, but never gets above tepid. If you run at lower coolant temperatures, is the operation of the still different? Or do you need to run at 120 degrees for optimal performance?

M
If your coil is below the takeoff, reflux is 100% because no vapor escapes the takeoff. As you raise the coil, progressively more vapor goes out the takeoff, reducing reflux to about the 50% mark (fully raised above the T/O point).

Temp won't have a lot of effect on this still, I'd wager. As long as you are running it cool enough to knock down vapors (below 120° on output side), you should be good.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

F6Hawk...perfect explanation...I'm on my fourth column this way, a 2" & 3x a 3" and they have worked perfectly.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by F6Hawk »

Thanks, DAD!! I hope I make you proud as a son!

Keep this in the back of my mind, waiting to unload my stored household goods so I can get at it again and build one like yours.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

I looked at your picture and thought, "There might be a little something in the eyes."
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by bellybuster »

Why have I not seen this thread earlier??
Not only did I just read the entire thing but I also placed an order for 72" of 1/2" flex pipe. Only $16 and change on Amazon Canada.
I am going to mod my Nixon Stone as it is a pain in the azz to run.
Thanks for this.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by Mikey-moo »

Finally a design I might be able to build myself :-)

Anyone know where I can get a stainless steel mixing bowl with an o/d of 275mm?
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by TDS »

Lols at F6Hawk having DAD300s eyes.
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by S-Cackalacky »

Mikey-moo wrote:Finally a design I might be able to build myself :-)

Anyone know where I can get a stainless steel mixing bowl with an o/d of 275mm?
I don't know where you are, but go here - http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow - and do a search for "mixing bowl". If you go to the detailed description, the specifications usually give the diameter in inches.

If you have a kitchen supply/restaurant supply store in your area, you might also try that. Just be sure to take along a measuring tape.

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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by Mikey-moo »

Thanks S-C. I've started going shopping with a tape measure in my pocket :-D
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by ShadowOak »

Just when I thought I was only a bit corn-fused about my first build: Pot/Reflux, VM/LM/Fagitabboudit and buy whisky...lol!
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by pitts2367 »

On your vmcc vertical still how does the condensate turn the corner to come out of the column? I see how it works on the second one with the angle on it, is there something in the column in the T?
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

Condensate doesn't turn the corner into the takeoff.

Vapor turns the corner. Depending on position of the reflux coil, vapor that hits the reflux coil is condensed and drops back into the column. Vapor that reaches the open takeoff flows to the Product Condenser.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by Getsmokin »

I was wondering if this would be a suitable mod to my undercondensered cm column? adding a short section to the top with a moveable condenser in front of the to port? There is no sliding condenser shown in the pic.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

I started this idea with a still almost that one's twin.

Yes, it will work very easily, with one limiting factor. You'll have a 1/2" takeoff on a 2" column. So, your reflux to takeoff ratio will be very high. Approx 15:1

You've got everything in place except the Reflux Condenser. A twisted piece of CSST and you done.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by Getsmokin »

DAD300 wrote:I started this idea with a still almost that one's twin.

Yes, it will work very easily, with one limiting factor. You'll have a 1/2" takeoff on a 2" column. So, your reflux to takeoff ratio will be very high. Approx 15:1

You've got everything in place except the Reflux Condenser. A twisted piece of CSST and you done.
good deal, that's what I was thinking. This is actually a 3" with a 3/4 TO . Just waiting on the csst to show up. Any tricks to running this kind of configuration?
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

No tricks...because of the small takeoff, you will probably be either off or on. Up on...Down off...

The take off pipe in those, actually sticks into the column interior. Don't let the reflux coil actually touch it.

Have the packing a few inches below the take off and never let the reflux coil touch the packing. If the reflux coil touches the packing, the top will flood very quickly. Ask me how I know this?
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by thatguy1313 »

How do you know this, DAD?!

You'll make some fine neutral with that rig.
No, officer, I wasn't distilling alcohol! It was probably that guy!

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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

Well, I have run a 2" mile hi version of that column. And I checked the data on the home base calculators for the 3" version.

It's kind of like any valve, there would be more control as the valve gets bigger.

Yes, it will make fine neutral, because of the large reflux to small takeoff ratio. The 3" x 3/4" max ratio will be something like 14 parts reflux to one part takeoff. Makes for 500ml an hour at 94% ABV. So, it will also be miserable slow for a 3" column.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by bellybuster »

Hey Dad, do you have a source for bulk CSST? Wanting to use as a permanent installed chiller in my brewery rebuild. Also for a temp controlled fermenter.
Thanks
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?q ... ping&i=SST" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not the cheapest, but the easiest...you can get it by the foot or roll.

I have scored some deals off ebay on the gas connectors up to about 60".
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by bellybuster »

thank you fine Sir
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by snowman_fs »

Is there any reason you would not want to run through the hearts in CCVM and then remove the reflux condenser and cap the top to finish up in "pot" mode? Provided the product condenser is up to the job. Just looking to collect some tails for blending and feints for the next run.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by DAD300 »

CON- makes it more complicated...if all is designed right you can get to 1:1 reflux which is minimal.

In a VM the Reflux Condenser does not help cool product in any way...

I hear all the time that VM's can not collect tails. I can...it gets slow and requires more power.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by Kegg_jam »

snowman_fs wrote:Is there any reason you would not want to run through the hearts in CCVM and then remove the reflux condenser and cap the top to finish up in "pot" mode
I do this sometimes. It's fun to watch the alchometer jump right out of the parrot. I've not been brave enough to try blending those tails though. Some nasty stuff.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by masonsjax »

I'm building a 3" CCVM with the keg spear dimroth product condensor but can't seem to find the recessless ferrules. Does anyone have a link for the right part? I see something similar on ebay but it looks like they are sized for 1.5" tube rather than 1".
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by masonsjax »

In case anyone is interested, I was able to find the recessless roll-on ferrules online with fast delivery here:

http://www.austenitex.com/shop_by_brand ... g-Ferrules" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

1" is the one you want for a keg spear.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by javaman1966 »

having trouble locating 3/8 csst up in canada
see in US they have at homedepot and lowes 25 foot roll
up here best was plumping wholesale 250 ft
if anyone has any leads for 3/8 got some 1/2 from plumbers but
with plastic off OD still close to 3/4 inch cant get to coil tight
enough to get into 2 Inch copper tube
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by docdave »

Javaman,

I bought a 25' roll of 3/8" CSST at Lowes in MI. It was about $36 a roll. I ran into the same problem in the Great White North. You might visit some heating cooling contractors in the area and see if they will sell a smaller amount to you if don't want to go to US. Tell them you're making a heater for your brewing rig! If you decide to go to US, check on Lowes of HD website for availability before you go. Also, you order on online in US and have it sent to a store near you. Other option is Ebay or Amazon.

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Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by raketemensch »

How do you plan to get the CSST feed in and out of your condenser pipe?
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Post by raketemensch »

docdave wrote:Javaman,

I bought a 25' roll of 3/8" CSST at Lowes in MI. It was about $36 a roll.
Were you able to find some that wasn't coated with the yellow stuff? Everything around here that's longer than 3 feet is coated.
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