At what power do you run your rig?

[Odin]

Hi there,

I run my 70 mm diameter column with 3,500 Watts. Total surface area of the column is 35 x 35 x 3.14 = 3,847 mm. So mine runs at 0.9 Watt per square mm. That's a gross value, because the column is packed with my new big SPP (that I renamed Helicon Column Packing, because it is helix shaped, not prismatic shaped). The packing takes up 10% of the column space, so actual net wattage input is like 1 Watt per square mm.

I think it would be interesting to have others share their power input, and relate it to column diameter and packing and product they want to make. I am sure that if enough people chime in, we can learn a lot on how to best run our rigs given a certain configuration and goal. So I hope you chime in!

Chances are we'll be discussing things like packing efficiency, vapor speeds, influence on smearing, and how that might translate to making better product. Or that's what I hope we can accomplish. Anyhow, I did the kick-off. Anyone interested in reacting, responding? Please go ahead!

Regards, Odin.

[shadylane]

At what power do you run your rig?
The following numbers are a guestimation
15.5 potstill with internal element on a stripping run. The limit is scorching, puking or overpowering the condenser.
20ish gallon hybrid baine marie/steam stripper 9KW
17ish gallon boiler driving a 4" packed column 4 -6 KW
17ish gallon boiler driving a 4" bubble cap 2 - 4KW

[skow69]

1 1/2 inch column.
Cross section = 19 x 19 x 3.14 = 1134 mm2.
Packed with super dense modified SPP, so ~ 20% of area = 907 mm2 net.
Run at 2000 to 2500 watts = 1.8 to 2.2 watts per square mm.

I have noticed for some time that I seem to run much higher power than others. I will be interested to see how this shakes out.

[rgreen2002]

4 inch Flute with usually 4 plates
Internal element 5500W
15.5 gallon keg boiler at about 75% full

Heat up: about 5000W
Once at temp: Usually about 1800-2000W

[DAD300]

3" x 36" CCVM with 30" of "C" sized SPP over a keg
Heat up: about 5000Watts
Once at temp: Usually approx 3,000 watts

It's late, I can't do the math...

I'll have data for a 4" x 40" with 36" of SPP soon.
I anticipate to run around 6,500 watts

[der wo]

2" offset LM. Unpacked still head and inner tube reflux liebig 1" with external reflux return.
Column either 0.5m or 1m long, filled with SPP (4.4 x 5.5mm).
Boiler filled with max 12l mash or max 15l low .
2.6kW the whole run.

[Kareltje]

Boiler of 10 l, filled with 5 to 7 l wash and up to 9 l low wines.
ID of pipe 13 mm, so 133 mm^2 surface. Length from boiler to top from 15 cm to 250 cm.
Boiler insulated, condenser air cooled.
Minimal run: 0,38 kW. Maximum about 0,75 kW.
So max 5,7 W/mm^2, giving about 850 ml/h product.

Edit: This seems way too high! Something is wrong!!

[Hound Dog]

Boiler loaded with 15 gallons of low wines feeding a single 6 inch plate under a 3"×52" column filled with lava rocks. Running at about 5500W-5800W

Boiler loaded with 15 gallons of low wines feeding three 6 inch bubble cap plates. Running about 5700W-6000W.

Boiler loaded with 15-18 gallons of wash with single 6 inch plate no reflux stripping run, depends on the wash up to 10,000W if it doesn't puke.

[The Baker]

I am just setting up a still on electricity.
I used to work on the family farm with LPG but a grass fire destroyed the water tank at the shed. No water for fermenting or cleaning up so I am at home.
My still is an old urn, no thermostat, switched elements. Small element AND larger element for heat up, then either for 'medium' or 'low' heat.
I will be using the standard Australian electricity, 240 volts, 10 amps.
It will be more cost-effective that way, I have some solar panels that will about cover that. It is not worth while sending our electricity to the power company, they only give us six cents a whatever (kilowatt hour?)
Geoff

[BoisBlancBoy]

Running a 15.5 gal keg, 5500 watt element, 3"x48" column, packed height with marbles about 42".

During the run I throw 3k at her.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Running a 15.5 gal keg, 5500 watt element, 3"x48" column, packed height with marbles about 42".

During the run I throw 3k at her.

[greggn]

2" CM, packed 45" with 3/8" raschig rings
6 gallon charge
Approximately 1050W


... and I'd also like to see more responses/data.

[der wo]

Approximately 1050W

Never heard such a low number for a 2" column. Are you sure, it works best this way?

[greggn]

Approximately 1050W

Never heard such a low number for a 2" column. Are you sure, it works best this way?

I'm doing a spirit run right now ...

115V
9.3A
1069W

4 drips/second. I never said it was fast.

[Odin]

What you making & what you running? 4 drips per second on a vm/lm in vodka mode may be okay. On a 4 incher ... it's kinda slow.

Regards, Odin.

[der wo]

Approximately 1050W

Never heard such a low number for a 2" column. Are you sure, it works best this way?

I'm doing a spirit run right now ...

115V
9.3A
1069W

4 drips/second. I never said it was fast.

4 drips/second, this number doesn't explain anything. You can have 4 drips/second when you use 4000W too. It depends on how much you send back into the column.

[greggn]

Approximately 1050W

Never heard such a low number for a 2" column. Are you sure, it works best this way?

Define "best."

When I run it like this, making AG wheat vodka, the fractions stack up like Pringles potato chips (sorry, that may be a regional reference ... others may get it).

[The Baker]

Got it
Geoff

[der wo]

Approximately 1050W

Never heard such a low number for a 2" column. Are you sure, it works best this way?

Define "best."

So you never tried out more power? Why?
The most members here run 2" at 2kW. Some even a bit more. To do something very different than all other members without trying it once the normal way doesn't sound good for me. I tried 2" with 1.5, 2 and 2.6kW. The higher the power, the better the seperation, higher abv, cleaner taste. Or much faster product of course. And probably less energy per liter 95%. There are many ways to define "best". Also taste of course.

[bilgriss]

8 gallon boiler w/ 6 gallon charge. I run on 120v with a 1650 W element.

Stripping run. Wide open, approx 13.8 amps, starting slower so I don't puke.
Spirit run. Starting more like 6-7amps, increasing towards tails, ending around 10.

This is just off the top of my head; different batches seem to vary.

[DFBrews]

2" pot still 4500 watt element

6 gallon charge

For spirit 800 watts gives me a nice thin stream

Stripping maybe go to 1200 i neck the 2" down to 1/2 and it hurts my ability to knock down all the vapor even with turbulence in the vapor path

[StillerBoy]

2" concentric LM.. strip run 10" column.. spirit run 20" column

lava rock packing for spirit & insulated

26L low wine at 35% in a 7 gal keg

Power by 5500 watt.. to reflux time 20 minutes

Reflux at 13.5 amps or 26oo watt for 30 minutes

Take off rate at 14 amps for fores and heads for 1.5 hr

Take off rate at 14.5 for body at 2.5 to 3L per hour at 93%

[bluefish_dist]

4" with sieve plates, can run at 5800 W. With bubble plates 5000 W. That is on top of a big boiler (I am commercial, so larger than 25 gal). I can take off at about 1 gal/hr at 170 proof from 7-10% wash.

Same 4" on a keg 3 bubble plates under a 4" packed, floods at 3100. Taking off at 190+, 1/2 to 1 gal/hr from low wines.

With a 2" over 3 4" plates, I flooded at 2500w and could take off at 1/4 to 1/2 gal per hour at 190+ from low wines.

2" packed on a keg I ran 1200-1400w at 1l/hr at 190+

[cranky]

I do different things at different times.
15.5 gallon boiler, 13 ish gallon charge, 5500W element

on the flute I turn the knob to about full dial it back a bit until the plates load up then dial it back to about what looks right.
OK maybe I don't run much differently on different things.
On the 3.5" CM I run reflux on near full pwr until the column is nearly flooded then dial it back until the column runs about half full,
On the pot, stripping run is full power, spirit run I dial it back til I get the output I want.
I don't really pay that much attention to numbers

[The Baker]

It seems that most use much higher power than say five years ago. Interesting.
Geoff

[casper the Irish]

CCVM in 3" (76mm) SS over 55l keg
Bottom 30" of column is 3" copper with Cu mesh topped by 30" SS with SS mesh rolled tight. 3"SS Tee with csst RC and Liebig
Gas 2.8kw ring

This is newly built, I am struggling to learn how to use it, not like my previous 2" bokacob LM
Reading these posts tells me to forget low heat, drip counting take off and let her rip.
However this has resulted in lower %ABV.

I tried to achieve flooding at full reflux but 2.8kw is not reaching it.
Yesterday I ran 30% low wines (rum). Low power stabilise, and for slow heads takeoff. Hearts at half power I get 91%abv at a steady "rats tail" like espresso coffee. At full power this abv drops to 87%, and takeoff becomes unstable. Take off volume doubles, in fact surges then slows to drips. Jiggling the condenser, to reduce and to increase reflux ratio results in a temporary 5 minute increase in take off.

Column and keg insulated with silver bubble wrap, seems quite thermally efficient. The column is braced to keep it vertical.

All I can think off is to increase insulation and power, but the takeoff rate was cleaner when lower. What should I do now to learn from this new rig?

I should change packing. Perhaps basalt pebbles, Odin? What size were yours?
SPP (or Odins helical) would be nice, to reduce my tower and increase ABV. What dia wire would Dad and Odin recommend, I don't know how to calculate wire and coil sizes for 10% mass in a 70mm column.

[Odin]

If you come over you can get some of my helicon, Irish. I have my i100 that has a 70 mm colum. Bit under 3 inch. With big helicon column packing. I throw around 3 to 3.5 kW at her and she runs like a dream. That's on pure runs with 96.5% coming over.

Basalt pebbles may also help you. I remember mine being like 7,8, 9 mm or so.

I don't really understand why you go from LM to VM, though. In the old days of slow packed column distillation, VM had an almost automatic tails cut-off. But with the more modern packing and high performance fast runs of today ... even tails get taken to 96% in a VM, so I feel there's no real advantage to it over an LM. But that's maybe for another thread.

Regards, Odin.

[casper the Irish]

Thank you for the invite, Odin. In fact I am hoping to discuss Irish apple brandy production on the iStill, seriously.

I am inspired by Dad300 who not only challenged copper conventions but worked hard to keep it simple. His elegant CCVM from the CCLM invented by Manu de Hanoi in theory prevents the smearing inherent in VM. De-cluttered architecture, plain and obvious Bauhaus "form *reveals* function". Too simple to be true? I had to try! I had been thru stovetop potstill, several VM bokacobs with added bypass, unconvinced by the layered complex arcane solutions to old habits. This CCVM design is transparent (obvious, uncomplicated, no secret knobs) and should take full power from head to tails.

This 70mm CCVM head only in potstill mode does my strip run at full power, 5kw (and allows refills during the run).
Since I strip indoors and reflux outdoors my pot size and burners are different.
With reflux column fitted for the spirit run, I am finding I need to turn it down to increase purity. Even though it is VM managed, after hearts I do not need to boost power. It is very easily converted to potstill as hearts are ending.
(pulling out the coil and capping, a loose lid does the job. On same 1.5kw/3l per hour heat, the line of least resistance remains its wide open lyne arm).
Hearts compress well on a rum run. But I have easily collected down to weak tails, those elusive Pugi golden run oils from 38% to under 20%

So: on my CCVM build with just 2 runs so far, it collects about 3l/hr 91% hearts at 1.5kw
Turning up power to 3kw does not double the rate and reduces %ABV

Dunno why....

[Hedge]

I don't really understand why you go from LM to VM, though. In the old days of slow packed column distillation, VM had an almost automatic tails cut-off. But with the more modern packing and high performance fast runs of today ... even tails get taken to 96% in a VM, so I feel there's no real advantage to it over an LM. But that's maybe for another thread.

Regards, Odin.

Interesting, I was under the impression that the tails cutoff for VM runs was something you had to work hard to force tails through (ie, capping and cutting off water flow to your reflux condenser and forcing the VM still into a faux potstill mode). I take that's not the case?

Cheers, Hedge

[Odin]

With scrubbers and low power settings, yes. If the abv of the gases falls below 86% near take-off, they'll just reflux back into the column instead of exiting. And that was usually the abv when tails started coming over. But with more modern packing, higher power settings, and higher collection rates, you can even take that last bit of the run to 96% without issues ... so it stays above 86% and does come over.

Relative density is I think what explains it, but my English may be off.

Regards, Odin.