92% ABV Single Malt ????

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Boda Getta
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92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by Boda Getta »

"Bruichladdich X4 Quadrupled Whiskey (92 % Alcohol)
The earliest mention of it was back in 1695 by Martin Martin. He explained the drinking of this type of spirit as such: “…The first taste affect all the members of the body. Two spoonfuls of this last liquor is a sufficient dose; and if ANY man should exceed this, it would presently stop his breath and endanger his life.”
So, This is the world’s most alcoholic single malt whiskey with a belligerent ABV of 92%. Thanks to the super precise distillation process, this whiskey is incredibly pure and potent."

First mention of this in 1695!!?? Was the distilling equipment of 1695 capable of producing a 92% ABV single malt/

BG
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Expat
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by Expat »

Plenty late enough for the invention of distillation; The Greeks had a form around 100 AD, the Chinese were making spirits around 1200 AD and Europeans, fractional distillation in Europe around the 1300's.

The biggest problem with a 92% Single malt is that its actually a Vodka, since you've stripped out all the flavour by that point. Also hard to imagine it being oaked since it has't really lost any ABV.

Sounds like a gimmick.... from 1695
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by cranky »

You have to remember that what we call whiskey/whisky has only been standardized for a little over 100 years, I believe it was actually 1907 and was established by Teddy Roosevelt personally. Before then there were no legal definitions of whiskey so just about anything could be called whiskey. Mostly it was applied to just about anything made out of grain regardless of ABV. I would also venture that these quadruple distilled whiskeys were seldom if ever watered down before the next distillation which is how you could easily reach 92%. We don't do it because it is not safe but many distilleries burnt down or blew up 300-400 years ago. As far as flavor, I can make a lot of flavor even at that high of an ABV depending on how I blend it and most of the flavor in whiskey comes from the barrels anyway.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by casper the Irish »

cranky wrote:what we call whiskey/whisky has only been standardized for a little over 100 years, I believe it was actually 1907....just about anything could be called whiskey.
You must be talking of Bourbon. Your current whiskies have been in production for less than 60 years. Your distilleries were commandeered by the government during WWII.
In Ireland we were making the same barley whiskey we make today early in the 17th century. In 1608 King James granted licences to many landowners, at least one continues distilling today. A century later the Irish used their experience to distill wine in France to make it easier to smuggle home. For example Hennessy cognac

Whisky is scotch. Whiskey is Irish; when the Presbyterian protestants were persecuted in Scotland and Ireland they fled to America. Hill Billys is slang for those ulster protestants whose allegiance was to King William III in rebellion to the crown. Hence Bourbon whiskey
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by Boda Getta »

I don't know guys. The point of my OP was whether the distillation arts in 1695 had the capability to achieve 184 proof.

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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by casper the Irish »

Scotch British proof is measured differently in America.

In 1695 100° (Degrees) proof is when distillate mixed with gunpowder will just ignite. (Hence "firewater") To my knowledge it was never measured in %ABV but 100°Proof is just over 57%abv (50% US)
92° proof thus is 48% Ethanol.
92% abv could not have been measured either in % or degrees proof, if it were it would have been noted at it's Scottish equivalent 160° proof, impossible for them to gauge with such precision using the gunpowder test.

But if it was really 92% abv I can achieve that simply on a stovetop pot by boiling undiluted low wines of hearts cut. Not a good idea.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by cranky »

casper the Irish wrote:
cranky wrote:what we call whiskey/whisky has only been standardized for a little over 100 years, I believe it was actually 1907....just about anything could be called whiskey.
You must be talking of Bourbon. Your current whiskies have been in production for less than 60 years. Your distilleries were commandeered by the government during WWII.
Nope, In fact you got that whole thing incredibly wrong, I don't know about over there in the 17th century but over here the laws defining whiskies of all kinds were determined by Teddy Roosevelt after somebody gave him some bad whiskey. Just because they outlawed it in 1917 (not WW2) has no bearing on it, the laws defining what was and wasn't whiskey stayed in effect so they were still in place after prohibition ended in 1933.
casper the Irish wrote:In Ireland we were making the same barley whiskey we make today early in the 17th century. In 1608 King James granted licences to many landowners, at least one continues distilling today. A century later the Irish used their experience to distill wine in France to make it easier to smuggle home. For example Hennessy cognac

Whisky is scotch. Whiskey is Irish; when the Presbyterian protestants were persecuted in Scotland and Ireland they fled to America. Hill Billys is slang for those ulster protestants whose allegiance was to King William III in rebellion to the crown. Hence Bourbon whiskey
Like I said, I don't know when standards were adopted over there to determine exactly what constitutes whiskey/whisky but from the little bit of research I just did it seems to have been established around 1908 and prior to that pretty much anything could be called whiskey/whisky, however you want to spell it. Whatever the case may be there weren't always laws saying it had to come off the still at or below a certain proof or be aged a certain way or even made from certain materials to be called whiskey.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by Boda Getta »

Wrong President: The US Govt Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits, including the Bottled In Bond Act was passed in 1897 under Grover Cleveland.

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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by cranky »

boda getta wrote:Wrong President: The US Govt Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits, including the Bottled In Bond Act was passed in 1897 under Grover Cleveland.

BG
Seems everybody is an expert on whiskey but me :?

Actually Teddy is the right president although I understand finding info on the internet is not easy any anymore especially when it comes to a man who did as much in his life as Teddy Roosevelt. Hers is a good read in that regard ( http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/Hi ... fortheLaw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow )

So to help make my original statement clear to you doubters here is a quote that came from here ( http://www.discus.org/heritage/spirits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ) although there are numerous other writings specifically on Teddy and spirits standards, you just have to be willing to do some digging to find them.
wrote: At one point Wiley is rumored to have taken a bottle of bad whiskey to President Teddy Roosevelt who examined the product and declared that if people could no longer get a decent glass of whiskey, it was time that something was done about it. Well, something was done, and when the law was enforced in 1907, all grain spirits other than straight whiskey had to be labeled “compound,” “imitation,” or “blended.”
That rather simplifies what Teddy actually did but he personally st the standards to determining what proof it came off the still and materials used in order to define what spirits were and are. Those standards that Teddy established personally were also part of international agreements that were enforced in other countries. Scotland has fairly recently begun new standards that allow up to 94.8% alcohol to be called whiskey but Yes Teddy was the one to personally set world wide standards of whiskey in spite of what some feel good marketing BS wants everybody to believe.

Now it seems in their haste to want to throw in their two cents worth in contradicting and arguing about my first statement everybody seems to be getting off on a completely unrelated tangent rather than the point I was actually trying to make. So I will try to simplify things.

The original question was if it was possible to reach 90+% in the 1600s?

The answer is Yes, of course it was. When you distill 6% mash you get 40% low wines (X) you then distill 40% low wines and you get 80% high wines (XX) Then even though it is potentially dangerous, you distill 80% high wines without cutting it for safety and you will get 90+% final product (XXX). What did you think the 3 Xs meant on a jug? Yes I know my math is probably a little off but they say they distill it 4 times which would even be more like vodka but since the new standard is that Scotch can be distilled up to 94.8% and still be called whiskey, they don't have to call it GNS or vodka, they can call it whiskey.

I hate arguing with people. Believe what you want, I'm done with it and done with this thread.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by skow69 »

boda getta wrote: Was the distilling equipment of 1695 capable of producing a 92% ABV single malt/
Interesting question.

I don't think so. Or rather I think probably they could, but just barely. It would be a LOT of work. And depend on having state of the art gear.

You can't get there with a pot still. Here is a 10% wash distilled 4 times, and it only gets to 90%
4x.jpg
But people have been hot-rodding pot stills for a long time. Alembics spread across Europe around the 15th century. The Coffey still came out in 1830, so they could theoretically make azeotrope from then on. Sometime in between they invented stuff like lentils, and stacks of lentils, and big round drippy balls they called rectifiers.

This is from an advertisement in 1899.
rectifi.jpg
I would bet that by 1695 they had come up with enough tricks to get to 92%, but then if you want to have 92% aged whiskey you better make it at 94% or 95%, and that's a pretty tall order. That is probably why all the classic herbal recipes start with a neutral spirit at 85%. It was a struggle, but it was possible to make and solvent enough to do the job.

But 85% looks really wimpy next to 92%. Right? Sounds like marketing hype to me.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by LWTCS »

92% is not neutral btw.
If 95% with 10 plates is not neutral there is no way everything is "stripped" out at 92%
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by skow69 »

You are right. I should have said, "a base spirit at 85%."
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by LWTCS »

My comment was for ExpatLad
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by MoonBreath »

You can do anything with bubble plates ...and taste it.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by SaltyStaves »

https://youtu.be/FqayC2Ykluw?t=544" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Drinking it out of the barrel would seem a little irresponsible at that proof. So its clearly not that proof. Its Scotland, so the Angels would have a decent go at it too.
Must be a high proof though, as clearly one of them has trouble speaking and James May seems to act like he just drank absinthe.

Bruichladdich produce 'The Botanist' gin, which I believe they sell more of than single malt scotch, so perhaps they do the X4 in the column still?
More likely, its just a narrow cut from multiple runs. Wouldn't take a big producer long to fill a little barrel like that.
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Re: 92% ABV Single Malt ????

Post by Boda Getta »

Why so testy Cranky, or should that be cranky. No one in this thread claimed to be a "whiskey expert". Seemed to be good discussion with members expressing their different opinions. That is the purpose of a Forum. You took great offense when I simply pointed out the fact that The 1897 US Govt Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits, the first law that codified and addressed the adulteration of whiskey, standers of bottling and set standards for age statements, as well as the Bottled In Bond law was passed in 1897. Teddy Roosevelt assumed office in 1901. I agree that Teddy Roosevelt was a great President and did great things, bu being the first to address standards for whiskey was not one of them.

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