Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

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Jafa5
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Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

Hey guys,

I'm looking to make gin and wanted to isolate a series of spices in an 80% neutral liquor so we can mix and match to get the right flavour profile.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to start this process or what it's called?
I think it's a tincture but unsure.

I've got the spices ready and the liquor but wanted to know rough volumes (parts liquor to spice) etc.

Cheers,
Liam

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NZChris
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by NZChris »

I distill mine into a concentrated essence in small gin stills with botanical baskets. No particular recipes, just chuck it in and run it, blend later.
Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

Hey Chris,

I'm not sure I understand that.
You run a small still with a neutral wash and pass the vapour through a botanical basket in the column?
So if I wanted to get a white pepper essence I could run a small batch as described above with the white pepper corns in the basket?
Same for star Annise or another spice?

I was hoping I could just soak them in the alcohol.

Cheers

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still_stirrin
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by still_stirrin »

Jafa5 wrote:...I was hoping I could just soak them in the alcohol...
Then do it! You don't need permission from anybody here to experiment. Maceration of spices in spirits are discussed on the site. Check in the Flavoring and Aging forum.
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Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

Thanks SS :)

I wasn't looking for permission just some direction, not even sure on the terminology to get a good search.
I'll go find that section of the forum and look.
Cheers



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NZChris
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by NZChris »

My gin baskets are the full width of the boiler, not some piddly gin basket stuffed into a bit of pipe. A saucepan and steamer from an Op Shop, copper from the metal recycler or your plumber mate at the pub, flour paste and a bit of ingenuity and you can build a very respectable still for making essences for very little outlay.

Another method is suspending the botanicals above the neutral. I have successfully used this method to make various concoctions and to repair a drink that was lacking in one component, but I've never used it to make a complete gin, let alone making essence. You go first. :D
zapata
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by zapata »

jafa, not arguing and saying you're wrong, but what is the thinking? I understand making distilled essences for blending into gin, as the ease of making endless combinations is the payoff (done it a bit myself). But if you are just making tinctures, which must then be blended and distilled, what is the benefit? To adjust the blend with tinctures you will need to make a new blend of tinctures and distill it. What is the benefit to doing that rather than just making a new blend of spices and distilling it ala traditional gin production?

Or are you hoping to make gin simply by blending the tinctures without redistilling? If so I don't think you'll find much on that. The only references I think I've seen mention it as a historical practice of making low quality gin. I do have a vague memory of maybe a particular botanical or 2 that can be used this way, but it isn't juniper so as a rule gins are distilled after addition of the botanicals whether they are macerated or steam infused.
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by zapata »

NZChris, that botanical suspended over the spirit is news to me, sounds fascinating. This is at room temp, I assume in a sealed vessel? How long does it take? Is this a known practice, or just something you came up with to doctor recipes? So say, hang some orange peel in the headspace of a jar to add more citrus note without actually making contact? Very interesting. Like a cold vapor infusion if I'm picturing it correctly.
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by NZChris »

Yep, all that Zapata, but I didn't invent it.
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by sweeps »

zapata wrote: Is this a known practice
Very much so. Most often known by its French name "liqueur du pendu".
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by zapata »

Awesome! Just read about a liqueur du pendu with mandarins, juniper berries and rosemarry, sounds awesome! Thanks for the tip, if I had ever heard of it, it was permanantly lost in the dark corners of my brain.
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

zapata wrote:jafa, not arguing and saying you're wrong, but what is the thinking? I understand making distilled essences for blending into gin, as the ease of making endless combinations is the payoff (done it a bit myself). But if you are just making tinctures, which must then be blended and distilled, what is the benefit? To adjust the blend with tinctures you will need to make a new blend of tinctures and distill it. What is the benefit to doing that rather than just making a new blend of spices and distilling it ala traditional gin production?

Or are you hoping to make gin simply by blending the tinctures without redistilling? If so I don't think you'll find much on that. The only references I think I've seen mention it as a historical practice of making low quality gin. I do have a vague memory of maybe a particular botanical or 2 that can be used this way, but it isn't juniper so as a rule gins are distilled after addition of the botanicals whether they are macerated or steam infused.
Hey zapata,

I was going to use the tinctures as single ingredients and just use them in measured amounts to make a gin, not redistilling it again. I'm new to distilling so not sure if tincture is the term I'm after or what I want to produce. I know what I want but just stupid enough to not know how to search for it, hence the questions :)

The idea came from a TV chef show, from a guy travelling in Aussie and going to see a gin producer there. The gin producre had a blending room with a wall full of single ingredients extracted in alcohol. The chef in question was blown away with the intensity of the flavours in the extracts - it was pretty good to see how excited he was tasting them. He used them to blend his own glass of GnT. Then the distiller made him two bottles of his own gin from the ingredients he picked. I can't remember the chefs name but think he is from NY and a keen smoker.

That's what I thinking as my approach anyway, to isolate single ingredients that I could bottle and mix to make the gin or gins. I don't have a great sense of smell so was hoping to make a simple system where by I could take good advantage of friends that are chefs and barmen to help build a few good gin recipes :)

I'm very happy to use the traditional methods.

Thanks for that feedback, I can see I have a lot to learn which is awesome :)

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Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

NZChris wrote:My gin baskets are the full width of the boiler, not some piddly gin basket stuffed into a bit of pipe. A saucepan and steamer from an Op Shop, copper from the metal recycler or your plumber mate at the pub, flour paste and a bit of ingenuity and you can build a very respectable still for making essences for very little outlay.

Another method is suspending the botanicals above the neutral. I have successfully used this method to make various concoctions and to repair a drink that was lacking in one component, but I've never used it to make a complete gin, let alone making essence. You go first. :D
I'll be in the local op shop tomorrow and get one built for next weekend :)
Seems like a good testing place to start
Cheers Chris

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Jafa5 wrote:I was hoping I could just soak them in the alcohol.
I really don't think you will get the result your looking for doing it that way.
You need to run each botanical through the still with neutral then blend to do it the way you want to.
Jafa5 wrote:The idea came from a TV chef show, from a guy travelling in Aussie and going to see a gin producer there. The gin producre had a blending room with a wall full of single ingredients extracted in alcohol. The chef in question was blown away with the intensity of the flavours in the extracts - it was pretty good to see how excited he was tasting them. He used them to blend his own glass of GnT.
Were these extracts perfectly clear or were some a nasty murky green colour while others were a horrid purple brown type colour?
If they were all clear they were distilled first, if not clear the botanicals had been macerated in spirit without distillation.
Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Jafa5 wrote:I was hoping I could just soak them in the alcohol.
I really don't think you will get the result your looking for doing it that way.
You need to run each botanical through the still with neutral then blend to do it the way you want to.
Jafa5 wrote:The idea came from a TV chef show, from a guy travelling in Aussie and going to see a gin producer there. The gin producre had a blending room with a wall full of single ingredients extracted in alcohol. The chef in question was blown away with the intensity of the flavours in the extracts - it was pretty good to see how excited he was tasting them. He used them to blend his own glass of GnT.
Were these extracts perfectly clear or were some a nasty murky green colour while others were a horrid purple brown type colour?
If they were all clear they were distilled first, if not clear the botanicals had been macerated in spirit without distillation.
They were all clear Saltbush.
I'll make up a small still like Chris recommends and give it a try with one, see how I go.
Cheers for that


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NZChris
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by NZChris »

Make sure the set you get has a small trough around the lid so that you can easily seal it with flour paste.

From my notes:
Flour & water paste.

Mix 50g flour & 57g water to a smooth texture.
Put in a ziplock snack bag and snip about a 3mm corner off the bag.

Apply it like you are using a cake decorator to run thin beads between or on areas that need to be sealed.

When running, if you find a leak, add more paste.
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

NZChris wrote:Make sure the set you get has a small trough around the lid so that you can easily seal it with flour paste.

From my notes:
Flour & water paste.

Mix 50g flour & 57g water to a smooth texture.
Put in a ziplock snack bag and snip about a 3mm corner off the bag.

Apply it like you are using a cake decorator to run thin beads between or on areas that need to be sealed.

When running, if you find a leak, add more paste.
Awesome thanks Chris :)
I didn't get a chance to call in the op shop but will have time this week.

I already had the base liquor and glassware so just filled 14. Half full with the spice and topped with 85% feijoa spirit. They have been in the liquor for a week now and just tasted a few, they are really concentrated flavours and not at all what I expected from the spice. Coriander is almost citrus and the pink peppercorns are insane.

Next week we are going to have a blending session and see how we go. A bit of fun if nothing else :)

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NZChris
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by NZChris »

After your blending session you could run your spittoon :D
Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

NZChris wrote:After your blending session you could run your spittoon :D
Haha I think you're right
I'll have to think up a good name for that special drop!

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Jafa5
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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Jafa5 »

This weekend we had a mixing session using a bought vodka as the base and added single drops at a time to build up a gin profile and it worked a treat!
Three of us each made our own gin profile we liked from the limited spices I'd isolated.
Really exciting and bloody good result. Now to build my spice library and start to make full distillations of each spice.
I picked up a good steamer for it just need some time to make em!

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Re: Disolving flavours and aromatics from spices in alcohol

Post by Soggy Bottom Boy »

Jafa5 wrote:
NZChris wrote:After your blending session you could run your spittoon :D
Haha I think you're right
I'll have to think up a good name for that special drop!

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