Reflux Still Column Project (Novice)

[Otka]

Hi everybody, after couple of months of research i decided to try to make a design of Reflux still column which i would like to make on my own. I have made a first draft to share with you, the draft version of working principle. My objective is to make high quality spirits with or without aroma...I am novice so it might be some errors or incoherence in design, I welcome your suggestions and thoughts about this combined type. (viability of column)

[Kareltje]

More than 4 m high! Is distilling legal in your country? Or can you hide it that good?

[bluefish_dist]

It looks like you combined a Nixon stone offset with a boka. While it would work, why not just use one head style, i.e. Boka or Nixon stone as they are both lm style stills. Would be easier to make.

[Yummyrum]

Otka normally I'm the guy that praises something different and fully encourages thinking but this design is particularly strange
I can only guess that the top section is also packed .
So I wonder why you would want to take off spirit below the top packed section if your gaol is to make high quality spirits .......taking it off at the very top would do that

My only reasoning is that perhaps you might be contemplating using the top valve as a heads removal with the hearts coming off lower down .....but as this is a Batch still , not a continuos still , that surely can't be your thinking as it wouldn't work .

I am also curious about why you have two magnetic takeoff valves ? .....I'm only guessing he but are you planning some sort of automated system that dumps hearts or tails or something into different containers ?

All the Temp numbers also makes me think that you are contemplating an automated still . Something this big and automated is setting off alarm bells for me ......especially as you say you are a novice .
We don't condone automation of stills as it tends to encourage stills being run unattended which is not allowed .

Sorry if I am jumping to the wrong conclusions . Just need to be clear on how you intend this still to work and operate .

My strong advice to a self confessed novice would be to gain some experience on a tryed and proven design and them if you can see flaws perhaps you can design your own .

[zapata]

You certainly can take heads high and hearts and tails lower (not simulataneously). If the top section is packed, it works as a heads column. The bulk of heads are bled off up high (highest purity). After closing the top LM valve any late heads and any generated in situ will rise to and stay put in the upper column while you take product from the lower slant plates. I've played with a simmilar-ish setup (but with VM below the LM and heads column) and I have seen it in Riku's designs and some Russian rigs.

But its still a rather...odd? Unique? design. Personally I wouldnt have chosen the offset head up top. You're already using 1 slant plate LM trap, why not just use another up top? It would be much more balanced for one thing.

I also dont understand why the slant plate section is cone shaped, unless the upper column is larger diameter? But that doesnt have any benefit I can imagine. And what is the circle symbol thing at the bottom of each product condenser? Not valves is it?

Regarding the magnetic valves, are they for automation? I curiously priced some recently, and briefly thought they'd be nice in some applications even if manually powered via physical button.

Honestly lots more questions are popping up. Seprate hearts and tails condensers....why? Heads are already sorted, and 2 condensers wont keep tails out of your hearts any easier than just making the cut on one condenser or simply collecting small samples and decide later. Yeah, even more ?'s...

Anywhere, you're from Georgia, have you seen any similar designs?

[Otka]

Hi you all, thanks for your detailed info, Yes it is legal here in Georgia (Eastern Europe) and i have room in my garage (6 M where i can do it , but maybe i will strech to 2000 m the central part if quality will not suffer and ill see if this project will be viable )

ill try to represent why we are considering this type of still, I know that after cutting off the head fractions at the beginning of the process and stabilizing the temperature of column, we begin to take the product from one sampling point as it is on both Boka and NS, but during the selection of the product, newly formed head fractions begin to appear at the top of the column and the extent of their increase in volume, they fall into the selection. Therefore, I decided to increase the volume of the upper part of the columns (the upper part is packed also till the entry of back flow tube ) and add an additional selection point for the heads with which the upper fractions will be taken during the entire selection process at a low speed (1 drop in 10 seconds simultaniously) . On Russian forum one guy tested similar to this type of column and they say that during whole selection process (heads, body,tiles) a bad smelly liquid flows from the top point (head liquid catch point)
As we want to maximize the purity we (me and my brother) thought to use this type of head take off design. Concerning the automation: Yes, I do not think that I will leave the column without attention of course, but the usual thermometers can be replaced by thermal controllers and set the primitive parameters. Automatically turn off the heat at a certain temperature. Automatically switch heads to body and body to tails. We think to set the Flow meter to reflux and automatically regulate the reflux ratio on the back flow tube from condenser part. Concerning two capacitors it's just for comfort. Can put two containers and with the help of valves to redirect body and tail streams (start / stop) and after t2 = 85C0 turn off the heating.I agree that first we have to make run this still mechanically and then add automation because of automation will complicate little bit the stabilization and management.

[zapata]

So the basic running principles seem sound. A slow drip for the in situ generated heads is interesting and easy enough. But I really dont see the point of the larger diameter for the top column. I'd keep the same diameter throughout. The larger diameter doesnt offer any potential increase in quality or speed, does it? It will still be limited by whatever the smaller diameter lower column produces.

I'd also consider a vapor management take off where you have the slant plates. VM maintains the reflux rate for the same valve setting throughout the run where the current setup would require adjusting the valve as the run progresses.

And why offset the top condenser instead of another inline slant plate collector?

[bluefish_dist]

With the two heads, why not do a reverse lm on the offset. Ie have the valve control the reflux and collect what overflows. That would give you a constant reflux rate instead of decreasing.

[Otka]

Thanks for suggestions, maybe ill leave the idea of bigger top column (thought that it will benefit some contact area without going too long, and also some in column pressure stabilization but as there is no considerable pressure difference there is no reason to do it) and add VM....also revrse LM is interesting to apply, ill take some time to make new design and be back asap.
Concerning the offset head, i think that cooling area on side will help the top central column (temperature wise to evaporate Head liquid faster and avoid to reach Boka pocket....supposition, correct me if mistaken )