Cleaning of wodka with milk?

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Kareltje
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Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

I found this German film on the French forum. It is about cleaning vodka with skimmed milk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKp0E-o ... n&index=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Anyone tried it?
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Rod »

is there an english translation
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by The Baker »

Various substances are used in FINING wine and no doubt vodka too. They remove proteins from suspension...

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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Rod »

This was previously posted but did not do well

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=51954
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Kareltje
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

I don't know if there is an English version, but I doubt if it would help. I don't know Russian, but the German voice over does not really give any specific information. Maybe industrial secrets? That is why I asked.

I know proteins are used to clear wine, did not know about the use in distilate.

Thanks for the link, it was a thread before my time and I will read it.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

I read the thread and it seems quite usefull.
NZChris did an experiment.
He mixed cream with some nasty wines and took the fat off a week later. This fat tasted nasty. That left a (protein) haze behind and he added some lemon juice. The protein coagulated out and left a clear likker.
He ran it 9 days later. According to his remarks, it was not a success.
But then, 2 months later, it tasted nice, and he announced to go on playing with this technique again.

Dan P. also experimented with a similar technique.
He found that adding a bit of lactic acid has a clearing effect.
He added a teaspoon of egg white, mixed it with a little salt, dissolved it in water and added it to an imperial gallon of 60 % spirit. This gave him a demijohn half filled with eggy junk, which did not settle. He redistilled it and got a very smooth spirit.

In stead of egg white I would prefer using isinglass.
And maybe, to avoid the haze of protein, one could use some vegetable oil or animal grease to bind fusel oils?
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Kareltje
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

On schnappsbrennen I found a thread about clearing with milk.
The only wodka that claims to be cleared with milk is Parliament Wodka.
One thinks the fatloving fuseloils join the fat in the milk and then are filtered out. Then the protein is filtered out, which is very difficult. Only after the removal of milkfat and -protein the treated low wines are distilled again.
Another source mentioned milk and eggwhite, but no ratios.
The French forum, fairesagnole, had a thread about filtration with active carbon. One of the posters mentioned 1 l of milk on 100 l of distillate or 100 ml of cream on 100 l of distillate. The milk or cream do coagulate due to the acidicty and after 3 days or a week you can decant the clair liquid. It works well for wines, he is not sure about distillates.


I took about 1 liter of tails of 40 %ABV and added 40 ml of cream, today. After some hours it already separated. See what it does in some days.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

Copied from another thread:
In the German forum I stumbled upon this site http://gonimsami.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I do not read Cyrilic and do not know Russian or Bulgarian, but it seems to be a forum or the like.
Anyone can lighten us up about it?

And this video too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df0hLxO44EI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Today, 10 december 2017, I filtered both of my samples: the one with the cream and the one with whole milk. The latter seemed to have a bit clearer layer of fluid over a smaller but slightly less sturdy deposit.
Just like the one in the video.
Both filtered very easy through a wetted coffeefilter, though.
The sample with the cream seemed to taste softer than the sample with the milk, but I will try again tomorrow when I am sober. :mrgreen:

On the German forum there is a discussion whether the fat or the protein in the milk causes the outsourcing of bad flavours.

In distilling the same wines the soapy taste came over at 85 % downward.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

In http://www.eyeforspirits.com/2011/08/28 ... fur-vodka/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Are some methods mentioned, among them:

Active carbon filtration (for drinkalcohol of medium class)
Paperfiltration (as preparation) (see http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=68772)
Silverfiltration (active carbon enhanced with silver: for premiumclass)
Milkproteinfiltration (very old method, nowadays only in the premium class wodka, thanks to professionel methods)

According to one participant in the German discussion, the milk purification is done by only one, mediocre brand.

I wonder: if it really is the protein that causes the purifying, would isinglass not be as effective as milk?

I now have about 3,8 liters of 38 % alcohol with 400 ml whole milk. Waiting to be acidifyed.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

Yesterday I ran the milky way alcohol. About 5,5 L of about 32 %ABV.
400 mL of whole milk plus 3,8 L of 38 % stood for 3 days, after which I added 10 gr citric acid. Got a bit hazy fluid over about 1 L of a soft precipitate. That filterd rather well through a paper coffeefilter.
The set up was a copper still, copper helmet with ss sponge and my copper spiral riser.
Mixed with another portion I stilled with the thermometer indicating 82,5 dgr C, which must have really been about 80 dgr C, because the product was 89 %ABV. In tasting according to Yummyrum it was rather clean.
By then the condenser was almost completely cool, so I heated up.
The next sample was between (indicated) 80 and 85 dgr C (100 ml @ 77,5 %) doubtful.
Another small sample was from 85 to 96,5 dgr C, 94 ml @ 60 %ABV, bad tasting.
The rest, up to 102 dgr C, was about 350 ml @ 23 % and foul tasting.

The distillate is a bit improved, but that can be caused by the set up with much passive reflux, the slow stilling with only 590 W or the milk. Or paying special attention to making cuts.

Anyway: I am not convinced about the milk.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by PuhBär »

Hello

Yes, we talked a bit about milk and protein purification here in Germany,
but there are no results so far.
If we go here in Germany the page: http://gonimsami.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow then google it
Let's translate into our language, then you can read it very well, you should as well
try to have the page translated in your language, if it works, that's the page
gonimsami just fine.

Best regards and nice Christmas from Germany

Please excuse my bad English
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

Yes, I read the thread http://www.schnapsbrennen.at/diskussion ... 4112408-01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks for the link. My Russian or Ukraïnian is quite bad :roll: , but I will try a translation.

Edit: Translation worked, more or less. Very interesting! These people concentrate on protein as the cleaning agent.
I at first concentrated on the fat in milk, expecting that the oily fusels would be rather attracted to the fat than to the protein.

I am a bit afraid to use eggwhite, for in winemaking the risk of overdosing is famous.
Will continu to experiment! 8)
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by PuhBär »

Hello
Yes, I have not tried it, but it's only part of the cleaning,you could do it in addition.
I'm trying to work clean and not having to clean so much, I'm doing without turbo
yeast, I think turbo is not that good.

greetings
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Kareltje
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

Yes, the site over and over again says the best ways to make clean moonshine are:
- good fermenting
- improvement of the wine
- a good still
- correct speed of stilling
- correct cuts
And when you have your distillate:
- distill again
- cleaning with activated carbon (made of wood!)
- egg- or milkcleaning
- filtration

This of course is a very correct series.
I made a series of birdwatchers last summer, aiming for a nice amount of clean alcohol to play with during winter and spring. To make gin, ouzo and some Geisten. But the lot tasted soapy and redistilling and making cuts again did not really help.
Until now carbon and milk were not convincing, but in reading the site you linked, I discovered I made some mistakes in using animal carbon in stead of vegetal and whole milk in stead of defatted milk powder.
Next week, when the shops open again, I will try again!

Now I am going to make some rum.
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PuhBär
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by PuhBär »

Yes, if we read many pages, then we will achieve good results.
I'm just making the cornflakes recipe from this site, I love the simple ones
Recipes, I'm a beginner.
I wish you that the rum is very good :D
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Kareltje
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by Kareltje »

So I tried again:
2.4 L of 83 %
1 L of skimmed milk (5 % sugar, 3.5 % protein)
Resulting in 3.4 L of 58 %.
Shaking every day for 7 days, then let it rest. I got some solids on top, a hazy layer there under and a layer of solids on the bottom. I poured it though a sieve and then tied to filter it through a coffeefilter. But I had to give that up: did run through it.
So I poured in a bit of lemonjuice, let it sit for a day and now it could be filtered.
Today I ran the filtered fluid and the first impression is, that it worked.

In the meantime I found two Russian forums. On the first I found a discussion about cleaning with milk:
http://forum.homedistiller.ru/index.php?topic=422.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Only read the first two pages yet, but already found three different ways to use milk.
On the other hand: one of the members did a test: one part untreated, one part treated with milk and the third part treated with egg white. The last one was best, better than the milk.
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Re: Cleaning of wodka with milk?

Post by PuhBär »

Hello Kareltje

Interesting that you have tried it, but it would not be better, first small amounts
Take, for example, in a test tube and then watch as milk or
Protein deposits, in the milk you can indeed with different fat content
Experimenting.

Thank you for reporting

Greetings from Germany :D
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