Pot stilling neutrals. I haz questions?!

[Saltbush Bill]

And make cuts each run or your just recycling the same garbage run after run.

[shadylane]

Yes.
Sorry, I can see how that was unclear.

Should've maybe said, a strip, two fast runs, and slow run w/cuts, and watering down in between each.

That would work
But it might be better to strip the hearts out of several ferments
That would give more and cleaner low-wines for the future redistilling and cuts

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Hillbilly , pot stills smear if you run them too hard . If the aim is to best separate out the crap from each end , you still need to run slow on each run .

The way I figure it, if I take a quart off each end during each fast run. Plus tale into account how much of the undesirable stuff the water filters out, theres likely very little left to try and compress on a final spirit run.

Or am I underestimating just how much nasties there might be?

[NZChris]

The real nasties are in the early and late distillate. In between is some nice flavor unless you made a poor choice of wash or stuffed up the ferment. Both of the vodkas you like do have some flavor, so you might not have to worry about the flavor as much as you are thinking. If you have a Bokakob, you can start with a highly flavored AG and strip a lot of the flavor out, with a pot, you can start with a sugar wash with little flavor and leave some in.

[cayars]

What I'd do is run the strip runs slow to start and discard foreshots and then everything up to hearts goes into a feints jug. When I get to hearts I speed up the "strip run". Save everything from hearts to end of strip for distillate run 2. You need CLEAN cuts to get a pot still vodka, so take advantage of that at every chance to remove the heads (all of them). I usually advocate for a little late heads in making whisk(e)y but want no parts of heads for a vodka like product.

You will never remove all traces of the flavor profile of your ferment so take advantage of it. For example I'll do a two part "mash" which is roughly
Part 1) corn, wheat, oat of equal parts. I'll use enzymes (no malts-too much flavor) to do the conversions. I target normal ferment ranges of 1.070 to 1.080 for this. I also lauter this to only end up with the liquid.
Part 2) I invert a sugar wash to make the same volume as I have from part 1 of the same SG. Probably don't need to invert it but it's pretty easy and makes life easier on the yeast for less chance of off tastes.
Mix part 1 & 2 together in the fermenter.

I don't add sugar to part 1 since that would just make the lauter more work. I'm trying to separate the sugar from the grains so last thing I want to do is add more sugar there. So the sugar wash is done separate to make life easier and faster.

That ends up with about 1/2 sugar, 1/6 corn, 1/6 wheat, 1/6 oat. The oats add a nice mouth feel. The wheat the "light grain taste" and the corn a tad of sweetness. The sugar makes up the bulk of the ABV potential. This seems to work well for me. I don't care for 100% sugar washes for "vodka" as it just tastes "thin" and without character which seems to showcase it's harshness or sugar bite. The additional of the grains "fixes" this IMHO. This of course is subjective!

I typically will distill 3 to 4 times. I concentrate on runs 2 (low wines) & 3 (high wines) of removing as much of the heads that come through as possible and any offensive tails jars in run 2. Run 3 is a hearts only collection. Run 4 is a filter run where I'll knock the ABV way down in the boiler to run it again. I'll use distilled water during this run to knock the ABV down to 30% to 35% ish. I find that helps this last run, to pull even a bit heads and tails and what water makes it though is distilled water and should not carry any character of it's own.

I now take my hearts which should all be very clean (pot still wise) and proof down to 110 (55% ABV) and run it through carbon a few times. I typically do 3 carbon passes.

This is about twice as much work as a normal whiskey run and doesn't produce a spirit that would meet TTB regulations as it was not distilled at 190+ proof but I'd put this up against Titos, Goose or other commercial vodkas. I highly advise the oats in the recipe of part 1 as it adds a nice mouth feel that can't be overlooked. Adjust the corn and wheat or replace them with whatever you happen to like in the commercial vodka that hit your taste buds just right.

I then Proof down to 80 using distilled water and let rest for a few weeks before bottling.

I can also reflux and it's much, much, much easier. Given a choice the reflux wins hands down. However, even when I do a reflux run I still sometime will dilute this down with distilled water and run it through the pot still one last time. My pot still has a lot more copper. It makes a slight improvement for vodka from copper and the additional distillation. If I'm just wanting neutral from the reflux for use in Apple Pie, Limoncello or other spirits I won't bother with the pot run or carbon treatment as it's not needed.

EDIT: Use a yeast like EC-1118 for the ferment.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I typically will distill 3 to 4 times. I concentrate on runs 2 (low wines) & 3 (high wines) of removing as much of the heads that come through as possible and any offensive tails jars in run 2. Run 3 is a hearts only collection. Run 4 is a filter run where I'll knock the ABV way down in the boiler to run it again. I'll use distilled water during this run to knock the ABV down to 30% to 35% ish. I find that helps this last run, to pull even a bit heads and tails and what water makes it though is distilled water and should not carry any character of it's own.

Do you also dilute the low wines and high wines with water during this process?

[emptyglass]

You can't pot still neutral. Unless your ass points up to the sky and you can ride a broomstick.

Just not gunna happen unless you like shit dirty neutral.

Go pot still your crap 5 times and it wont be clean. But you can tell every one you messed up 5 times trying to clean something that was never going to be clean.

Edit; if you want super cool whiskey, can't beat a pot still

[cayars]

I typically will distill 3 to 4 times. I concentrate on runs 2 (low wines) & 3 (high wines) of removing as much of the heads that come through as possible and any offensive tails jars in run 2. Run 3 is a hearts only collection. Run 4 is a filter run where I'll knock the ABV way down in the boiler to run it again. I'll use distilled water during this run to knock the ABV down to 30% to 35% ish. I find that helps this last run, to pull even a bit heads and tails and what water makes it though is distilled water and should not carry any character of it's own.

Do you also dilute the low wines and high wines with water during this process?

I'll send you a PM with more details, but I'll just say it's done like Irish Whiskey is done when triple distilled. That will make sense to those that know the process or are willing to learn it and do a bit of research. I intentionally didn't go into specifics because it's not a beginners topic or something a novice should do.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Im not really that much of a novice.
I'm an expert by no means.

But I have many grain mashes under my belt, with repeatable results. Also, I brewed all grain beers for a few years before I got into this hobby.

I've been running my still for 3 years. Just never bothered to make neutrals cause I've only found I really like martinis in the last year.
Always stuck to whiskey and rum.

I dont really care much for scotches or irish whisky. I am a bourbon, rye, and jamaican style rum fan.

[cayars]

Im not really that much of a novice.
I'm an expert by no means.

I dont really care much for scotches or irish whisky. I am a bourbon, rye, and jamaican style rum fan.

I know this, but since the forum is available for anyone that trips over it or lands hear by a search engine... I just don't want them doing something that shouldn't be done without proper knowledge of how things work.

That comment was not directed to you hence why I PMed you the info.

It's not matter of trying to achieve a Scotch or Irish whiskey flavor (quite the opposite) but borrowing a tried and true technique they use, but not really for beginners to attempt.

Carlo

PS I just edited the above post to mention to try using E-1118 yeast for this ferment which is really clean fermenting. But only use it if you can ferment at the proper temps, otherwise substitute the best yeast you have that works at the temps you have.

[NZChris]

I'll send you a PM with more details, but I'll just say it's done like Irish Whiskey is done when triple distilled.

Triple distilling Irish whiskey bares little resemblance to the protocol required for triple distilling to make neutral. The low wines and high wines ABVs aimed for by the distilleries are designed to scavenge far more flavor than any home distiller aiming for a neutral would want for putting through to the next distillation.

[cayars]

Technique, not flavor profile is what I was talking about but don't want to get into it here. I PMed him the info.
I clearly said not trying for "Scotch or Irish whiskey flavor (quite the opposite)".

I'd be happy to discuss via PM but not in public where someone could get the wrong idea, do something half baked and become unsafe.

[BourbonStreet]

Am I the only one who doesn’t mind drinking the first run from a pot still? I run my UJSSM really slow, with a twisted stream about as wide as pencil lead. It comes out around 65% in the hearts, and it’s not neutral, but it tastes good. I blend the jars to taste, and it’s even better. I even have some on charred JD barrel chips, and it’s amazing. I have double distilled a few runs, usually feints or rum. It is smoother, and around 75% in the hearts.

[NZChris]

Am I the only one who doesn’t mind drinking the first run from a pot still? I run my UJSSM really slow, with a twisted stream about as wide as pencil lead. It comes out around 65% in the hearts, and it’s not neutral, but it tastes good. I blend the jars to taste, and it’s even better. I even have some on charred JD barrel chips, and it’s amazing. I have double distilled a few runs, usually feints or rum. It is smoother, and around 75% in the hearts.

Did you post this in the wrong topic?

[Corsaire]

See where teddy's fast fermenting vodka gets you using the triple distilling you were saying. I liked it enough to use as a genever base on my pot. Don't have reflux either.
Don't be greedy, dump everything but the hearts and while it's not neutral, as long as the base flavour compliments what you're trying to reach a pot still can make the base for a good gin.
Which makes a better martini