Hard Cider

[Snackson]

Cider4.jpg

That's a lot of cider!

[PTS_35]

The length of time isn't so much about how long it takes to ferment out. I have some in fermenters that have been finished for a week or more, but they will sit for another couple of weeks. Jimbo talks about what goes on with allowing the additional time after the ferment completes in other threads in the "Recipe Development" section of the forums. He has said that it is best to leave the wash sitting in the fermenter for at least 30 days before running (for brandy). If you're making hard cider, it should sit for about 6 months to reach its maturity.
.

Ok I'm a little confused. I see this and I see posting of raking cider off above 1.000 to save the sweetness. So if after brandy..once it's done fermenting it should just sit, under airlock for 30 days? And if after hard cider it should sit in fermentor for 6 months, with the yeast? If that's so, what about statement to rack it slightly above 1.000 to save that sweetness? I don't want it overly dry; the cider. Now going for brandy, I'll wait the 30 days. So what should be done for the hard cider if I don't want it dry?

[PTS_35]

PTS_35 what was your O.G.?[/quote]
Haven't done it yet bc I'm waiting for a dam beaker so I can test gravity. Had one, plastic..it wouldn't seal for crap so I bought a glass one off eBay. Planned on it arriving yesterday but nothing. Since I sanitized my buckets, I put the cider in and under airlock. No yeast. Hoping it comes monday. Really put a cramp in my plans yesterday. I have 3 quarts of 73% all bran I wanted to dilute. Couldn't wait so I used the dilution Calc and added some water. Stopped tho bc I really want to measure.

[ksarrow]

You want less dry, try using a different yeast like Nottingham or some use ale yeasts. And crash it or use additives to halt the yeast when its how you like it. I've read where some calculate the max ABV of the yeast and OG so the yeast die out before the all the sugar is consumed.

[PTS_35]

thought I saw where cold crashing doesn't really work and that adding something like potassium sorbate? I think makes it taste funny

[frodo]

.990 fsg / 13% abv strained, cold crashed in the fridge for 12 hours

removed from fridge, strained again, air locked and sitting out on counter

kind of interesting, one jug has 3 levels to it

1'' at the top is clear

3'' band in the middle light colored

bottom is darker

I think i am witness ing clearing

all i can do not to siphon off that clear LOL

started another one yesterday..for scientific reasons
this is whats in it
2 cans concentrate
4 cups sugar
100% juice
gonna see what that sugar does. this will be sugar sweet not drinkable
or, knock your dick in the dirt abv
or a back wash for something

[WooTeck]

The length of time isn't so much about how long it takes to ferment out. I have some in fermenters that have been finished for a week or more, but they will sit for another couple of weeks. Jimbo talks about what goes on with allowing the additional time after the ferment completes in other threads in the "Recipe Development" section of the forums. He has said that it is best to leave the wash sitting in the fermenter for at least 30 days before running (for brandy). If you're making hard cider, it should sit for about 6 months to reach its maturity.
.

Ok I'm a little confused. I see this and I see posting of raking cider off above 1.000 to save the sweetness. So if after brandy..once it's done fermenting it should just sit, under airlock for 30 days? And if after hard cider it should sit in fermentor for 6 months, with the yeast? If that's so, what about statement to rack it slightly above 1.000 to save that sweetness? I don't want it overly dry; the cider. Now going for brandy, I'll wait the 30 days. So what should be done for the hard cider if I don't want it dry?

if you want to keep the sweetness you'd need to stop the fermentation early some how or add non-fermentable sugars.

[flyweed]

You are correct in the Potassium sorbate..Trust me, I've been there! Potassium Sorbate WILL indeed stop a ferment..but it will impart "off" tastes in your cider, I have found undesirable. Cold crashing worked just fine, as long as you don't "warm" it back up again. If you keg..cold crashing works 99.9% of the time, as you keg it, and put it into a kegerator where it stays cold all the time, if you bottle, you'll need to keep the bottle chilled, until you drink them, just to be safe.

Probably the best method, if you are looking to retain sweetness and stopping early is to Stove Top Pasteurize your bottles of cider. Iv'e done it a few times, and it works fine. I have friends that rely soley on this method, as they don't keg and chill their cider like I do.

Give stove top pasteurizing a try. You can successfully do it with a cider in the 1.010 - 1.014 range, which is a nice, natural sweetness.

And again..you CAN cold crash, and it does indeed work..but the ideal crash is to be able to maintain your seconday or tertiary carboy at 35F for a week until the cider clears.

[PTS_35]

Thanks flyweed. Let me get this clear; once my damn beaker comes in so I can get a reading; if my OG is what..1.050 or 1.076 (examples) and I stop it at 1.010 that's less abv than what I was hoping for. But of I bottle it and put in fridge it has to stay there until I drink it or yeast will kick start again? Or pasturize which will kI'll the yeast. Ok so what if I wanted to try carbonation? I was gonna take some, put on flip tops and add a bit of sugar and seal. I like the pasturizat ion idea, for what I want as flat. What temps and how long for that

[smokeskrene4207]

When i make sweet apple wine carbinated I ferment dry then backsweeten with stevia to taste which isn't fermentable and for every 5 gallons of apple wine I add 1 can of apple juice concentrate then bottle. I leave it out on the counter for a few weeks to carbinate before I put in the fridge.The sugar in the concentrate is enough to carbonate the brew. If your unsure about the carbonation fill up some soda bottles. As they firm up you can judge the carbonation. If you think there's to much carbination pastuerize the bottles and refridgerate. Pastuerize about 20-30 minutes at 170-180f.

[flyweed]

like smokeskrene said. you CAN backsweeten with ANY of the "man made" sugars on the market...IN MY OPINION again, they leave off flavors and are not a "natural" taste in a cider. But you can certainly do it.

Pasturizing is easy. First, after you fill and cap your bottles, you'll want to set all of your bottles in your kitchen sink and fill it with HOT tap water..most homes, hotwater comes in at about 120F. That's good enough. This is just to warm up the bottles, so the next step wont shock them or the glass. Next bring a large pot of water up to 165F, and maintain that. NOW...each bottle of capped cider, will go into this pot of water for 10 minutes. That is long enough to kill off any remaining yeast in your bottles NOW (WARNING, WARNING, WARNING) that last step is the most dangerous part. IF you have weak bottles, or bottles that have already overcarbonated they CAN and WILL explode. Just for safety reasons I suggest wearing goggles, gloves, and a coat during the process of putting the bottles into the 165F degree water.

pull the bottles out, and set them on a towel or your countertop and let them cool down. You NOW have pasturized bottles that will still be sweet, and no chance of bottle bombs.

HTH

[nerdybrewer]

After reading all this I think I'll age mine then put it in a keg seal it up and let it sit and naturally carbonate for a few weeks.
Stainless kegs can hold lots of pressure.
Probably get some yeast sediment on the first glass of cider but I can deal with that.
Got a beer fridge too, so this sounds like a plan!

[Monkeyman88]

Thanks flyweed. Let me get this clear; once my damn beaker comes in so I can get a reading; if my OG is what..1.050 or 1.076 (examples) and I stop it at 1.010 that's less abv than what I was hoping for. But of I bottle it and put in fridge it has to stay there until I drink it or yeast will kick start again? Or pasturize which will kI'll the yeast. Ok so what if I wanted to try carbonation? I was gonna take some, put on flip tops and add a bit of sugar and seal. I like the pasturizat ion idea, for what I want as flat. What temps and how long for that

You can't get an OG once fermentation has started. Or have you got some unfermented juice that you can measure?

[frodo]

monkeyman, sterilize the meter..stick it in the jug LOL..long as its sterile why not?

160 degrees 10 minutes

[nerdybrewer]

monkeyman, sterilize the meter..stick it in the jug LOL..long as its sterile why not?

Thats how I roll..

[PTS_35]

MonkeyMan I haven't added yeast yet. I sterlized the buckets and didn't want to do it all over again so I put the cider in and put on lid and airlock. Figured a day and a half wouldn't hurt the cider. Hope the beaker comes tomorrow so I can take OG and then pitch the yeast

[PTS_35]

Flyweed , the bottles have to be cover by the water? Half way? How's that work? Idk if I'd wanna risk putting carbonated in there but I don't see why I couldn't do this withing some mason jarred ones.

[Monkeyman88]

monkeyman, sterilize the meter..stick it in the jug LOL..long as its sterile why not?

160 degrees 10 minutes

Because once fermentation has started, it's no longer the OG

[Monkeyman88]

MonkeyMan I haven't added yeast yet. I sterlized the buckets and didn't want to do it all over again so I put the cider in and put on lid and airlock. Figured a day and a half wouldn't hurt the cider. Hope the beaker comes tomorrow so I can take OG and then pitch the yeast

Ok. My bad. I thought you were talking about an already started batch. Carry on. Lol

[PTS_35]

Does the explosion risk come from putting carbonated liquid in hot water or from taking it from 120 to 165f. If the latter couldn't you match temps and move the bottles from sink to pot when temps are closer to matching?

[frodo]

domestic water heater temp is 120 degrees



remove from fridge, let come to room temp

put in a pot with hot water from water heater,,let come to temp

transfer to a pot of 160 degree water, let sit for 10 minutes

remove, place on towel, on counter, let ambient cool the jug

[flyweed]

you got it Frodo. that's how it's done.

PTS, you will only get bottle bombs, if you've bottled "fermentable cider" and it's been in the bottle a few days...You should have NO problem with the pasturizing process, if you bottle, cap and Pasteurize the same day.

[PTS_35]

Maybe I'm dumb but you saying 'fermentable cider'..isn't that what it'll be stopping the ferment at above 1.000? I wanna be sure what I'm doing before I have a glass bottle blow up in my kitchen. And if I let it go till finished, add a small amount of sugar to the bottle and cap to leave out to carbonate, then pasturize, do I have a problem there?

[Wooday]

Maybe I'm dumb but you saying 'fermentable cider'..isn't that what it'll be stopping the ferment at above 1.000? I wanna be sure what I'm doing before I have a glass bottle blow up in my kitchen. And if I let it go till finished, add a small amount of sugar to the bottle and cap to leave out to carbonate, then pasturize, do I have a problem there?

You can make a sparkling dry cider without pasteurizing by letting it finish to <1.0 sg and adding an amount of sugar calculated to give you your target volume of CO2. You should be able to google for a carbonation calc.

Pasteurize if you want to leave it a little sweet.

Cheers,
Wooday

[PTS_35]

May just do that since this is first time. I got 4 750ml flip top bottles. Now what do you do once you've reached the carbonation you want. I mean how does it stop and leave you with desired carbination. Bc the right amount of sugar added is basically consumed?

[swedishbrewer]

May just do that since this is first time. I got 4 750ml flip top bottles. Now what do you do once you've reached the carbonation you want. I mean how does it stop and leave you with desired carbination. Bc the right amount of sugar added is basically consumed?

Yes. By adding the right amount of sugar, you'll end up with the desired carbination. Add too much and you might get a bottle bomb to deal with. 6 grams per liter I believe should be about right.

I see you mentioned in a previous post you had already prepared the cider but not pitched the yeast yet. Do that as quickly as possible. The quicker you pitch the yeast, the better, the liquid is very vulnerable to bacterias and infections until you have established a strong yeast culture and gotten some alcohol produced.

[PTS_35]

Crap. Well I had to contact post office bc dang beaker was to be here and now mailman forgot to drop package. I'll tell ya, When you're waiting on something...but I didn't know abt the bacteria dammit. It'll be done today. Hope I didn't ruin anything.

[BaxtersDad]

So Im expanding my hobby to learning how to make some good hard cider. I went and got 1 gallon of local cider, mixed 1lb of brown sugar and got an OG reading of 1.095. I pitched some Mangrove Jacks cider yeast and its fermenting nice and slow. I also added a 2/3 tsp of pectin enzyme, 1/2tsp of tanin and 1tbs of yeast nutrient. I may try to make some apple jack also. Anybody else make cider?

At an OG of 1.095, I would call what you are making apple wine, not hard cider. I am a dry cider guy. I use cider from a local orchard, and aim for an OG of about 1.055, I use a chart to determine sugar addition but it really is not very much. Only additive is a little pectic enzyme, and I a aerate and ferment with Safale US-05 ale yeast. Ferments fairly quickly (3 - 5 gallon batches), and goes into Grolsch bottles with a teaspoon of 4:3 simple syrup to prime. Carbonates in 10 days or so. I will put it up against the best commercial dry ciders, most of the available ones now have gone to sickly sweet by me.

[PTS_35]

(Quote) 6 grams per liter I believe should be about right.
/quote]

Can I ask where you got this info? If I did the math right that would be 4.5gr for 750ml bottles. Which is what I have.

[Monkeyman88]

Crap. Well I had to contact post office bc dang beaker was to be here and now mailman forgot to drop package. I'll tell ya, When you're waiting on something...but I didn't know abt the bacteria dammit. It'll be done today. Hope I didn't ruin anything.

Seeing as how it's not fermented yet, you could measure the OG in any container that the hydrometer will fit in.