Infected cider question

Alcoholic beverages which are not classified as spirits.

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jog666
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Infected cider question

Post by jog666 »

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My cider experiment is a little infected. Not sure what to do with it. It doesnt have a vinegar smell, just a wee bit of funk along with the bland cider smell. I can easily dump it into my bad wine bucket & strip it out down the road but dont want to if there is a good use for it. Maybe use it for rum or a dunder pit?
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by DAD300 »

Jog,
That looks fine, if it doesn't smell like poop...run it!

If you want to stop the infection pour some alcohol (tails preferably from another run) to up the ABV. That will stop the infection.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by NZChris »

If it has a vomit smell don't run it until it disappears.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by Beerswimmer »

Shouldn't the vomit turn into pineapple during distillation?
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by cayars »

That looks pretty normal to me.
Let it ferment out then smell and taste it. Bet it will be just fine!

As the other guys have mentioned if it starts smelling foul, like vomit or putrid then you want to check back in for additional info.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by NZChris »

Beerswimmer wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:58 pm Shouldn't the vomit turn into pineapple during distillation?
I've never heard of that being successful. What I've heard is that you are pretty much stuck with it if you didn't wait for that to happen in the fermenter.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by cayars »

Beerswimmer wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:58 pm Shouldn't the vomit turn into pineapple during distillation?
It's called the Fischer esterification reaction. Basically in a nutshell you take an Alkenes (molecule that has a carbon-carbon double bond). Put in our realm butyric acid and ethanol that smells like vomit mixed with a small amount of sulfuric acid heated for a while will develop ethyl butryrate esters that smell like pineapple.

I've done this in the lab for oils and fragrances but have never distilled said substance so I have no idea what it will taste like but can be quite pleasing to the nose. I certainly wouldn't try to get my ferments smelling like vomit to try this on purpose. :)
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by NZChris »

cayars wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:34 pmI certainly wouldn't try to get my ferments smelling like vomit to try this on purpose. :)
I have done, as have other forum members. Butyric acid is a good thing if you know what you are doing and want it's ester in the style of likker you are making. It would be undesirable if you were making neutral, but I've never heard of that happening.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by cayars »

Thought you just said above "I've never heard of that being successful" but now you've done it?
Not picking on you, just a bit confusing, not understanding I guess what you meant above.

When you added the Butyric acid did you get the vomit type smell? Then did it turn into a pineapple type smell after heating or something else? How did it turn out?
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Re: Infected cider question

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🤼‍♂️ Your turn.
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jog666
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by jog666 »

Yall are above my pay grade with the pineapple funk.
DAD300 wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:05 pm Jog,
That looks fine, if it doesn't smell like poop...run it!

If you want to stop the infection pour some alcohol (tails preferably from another run) to up the ABV. That will stop the infection.
From the look of it & some of the infections Ive seen guys on here go for, it looks "ok" to use/keep going. I dont really 'want to stop' the infection, if there is a use for it. I wish I had enough to fill the pot but this was left over cider from christmas presents. Maybe a bit over 1.5L total volume?
NZChris wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:50 pm If it has a vomit smell don't run it until it disappears.
Its FAR from there. The funk I do smell, isnt really that bad at all.

cayars wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:18 pm That looks pretty normal to me.
Let it ferment out then smell and taste it. Bet it will be just fine!

As the other guys have mentioned if it starts smelling foul, like vomit or putrid then you want to check back in for additional info.
It has fermented out. It finished dry back in December when I racked it off. 9%abv. Some time in January I took a small sample to taste. Spent a few weeks trying to figure out what I was going to do with it since it was bland. Then a few days ago when I had time to doctor it up is when I noticed the infection.



Let it ride & hope for something good?
Go on the hunt for molasses again & use it there?
Use it in a grain/sugar batch?
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by cayars »

Personally I'd try a few things. What I would try is freeze distill it if it's cold outside in your parts. Just put in carboys or similar and put outside and allow it to freeze, then bring it in, flip it over a bucket and drain until only clear ice and any trapped debris is left in the carboy. What this will do is allow you to remove the water/ice and any settlement that happened during the chill. You'll be left with less liquor that is higher in ABV and more condensed flavor. Starting with 9% ABV will likely end you around 15% after round one. This is commonly called Apple Jack.

If it's not strong enough flavor, repeat a 2nd or 3 time. Each "jacking" will remove more water/ice while raising the ABV and apple flavor. If you don't like it as Apple Jack after 3 or 4 freeze distillations then run it in your still as a spirit run and make apple brandy. No need to strip it as the freeze distillation replaced the strip runs and also condensed flavor which is good.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by Farside »

Jacking will also increase the alcohol percentage and the acidity. Both things that are hostile to infections.
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Re: Infected cider question

Post by stillanoob »

I have had that same infection with the thin scum on top and slightly off taste. It only seems to occur in very dry cider 6 months or so old. I find that if I keg it, it gets worse over time but left in a carboy it seems to stall. I have kegged it and drank it quick and I have made vinegar out of it. The vinegar tasted fine and I used it for canning. I would add some extra alcohol to make sure you get the acetic acid content up if you do that. Now that I have a still (almost) I'll certainly try distilling it. However, the apple flavor is already diminished by that time so maybe a low wines run and add it to the next batch?
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