Wild turkey run’n

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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1RiverRunner
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Wild turkey run’n

Post by 1RiverRunner » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:58 am

I’m doing a Wild Turkey bill 75/13/12 and want to get as close as possible. Their site says they run twice. I normally run a pot and thumper strip followed by alembic slowly for corn whiskeys, but should I run the pot and thumper followed by alembic, the pot and thumper, or just run alembic twice to get as close to Wild Turkey as possible. Any one nail it? How?

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NZChris
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by NZChris » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:10 am

If I'm trying to emulate someones product, I find out as much as I can about their protocols, then don't try to outsmart them by doing something else.

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by cayars » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:57 am

I can try to give you some information I remember which might help or not. :) I did some engineering work on the WT Automation back in 2010 for Rockwell (automation control platform) so I can tell you a bit about the process in more detail.

They used a 5 foot diameter copper column that has 19 copper plates and is 52 foot tall.
Product comes off the column at 125 proof. This is what they consider their low wines.
This is diluted with water and run through a doubler and taken off at 128 proof.

Wild Turkey uses barrels with the sides charred to #4 and lids charred to #3.
The 128 proof spirit from the doubler is diluted to 115 proof before putting in the barrels.
The typical warehouse is open air and is 7 stories tall.

The spirit coming out of the barrel will generally range from 108 to 113 proof.
The spirits after aging are diluted to bottle strength (if not cask strength) such as 81 or 101 proof.
The average age of the Bourbon in 81/101 is 7.5 years old. WT tends to age a bit longer than most distilleries.

The spirit used in Rare Breed is cask strength and will typically be in the 110.x to 112.x proof range depending on batch.
Rare Breed is a blend of 6, 8 & 12 year old. The blends come from different floors in the warehouse.

WT takes pretty wide cuts and goes pretty deep into tails. The white dog doesn't taste good IMHO, but develops wonderfully in the barrel.

Let's see, some other things:
The mash bill is correct 75/13/12. All grains natural (not generically modified).
The rye they use comes from Germany, not the US.
You could try Maris Otter malted barley which also has a bit of nutty flavor that is ever present in WT.
Fermenting is done open top at about 11% potential ABV give or take a percent. It doesn't develop a cake on top which seems to indicate a lager style yeast vs an ale yeast. I know they said their yeast produces a nutty flavor so maybe look for a lager yeast that produces nutty flavors?

Hopefully something is this helps.
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

1RiverRunner
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by 1RiverRunner » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:53 am

Wow, that’s a leg up, Cayars . Thank you.

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by cayars » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:39 pm

No problem.
If you have any specific questions fire away.
May or may not know, but I tried to cover the basics here.

The key to any good Bourbon is aging on oak.
Now I'll let you in on a secret I sometimes do.

I'll take spirits I've aged and let's say it's young and only been on oak for 3 to 6 month. It's going to taste young but quite drinkable. Good for cocktails but still not what I'd consider a nice sipping whiskey IMHO. So what I've found is play around using:
1/4 WT 101 & 3/4 your whiskey
1/3 WT 101 & 2/3 your whiskey

Somewhere between 1/4 & 1/3 of actual WT 101 really add depth to your home made whiskey and the flavor profile really comes through. I've tried 1/2 and 1/2 but bang for the buck the above works. It makes your whiskey (as long as it's pretty decent but just young) taste far closer to a 2+ year whiskey. I pickup the WT 101 in 1.75 liter bottle for about $35 and mix it with about 5.25 liters of my bourbon for 7 liters total. My costs are pretty cheap so the WT 101 goes a long way. Goes even further if you bottle at less then 101. Try diluting small sample of your mix to 90, 95 proof as well as 80 and 101. The combination of your spirit + WT 101 might have a sweet spot proof wise you really like. But do the mix and let it set a day before sampling. I use little 1/2 pint mason jars for these types of experiments and write on the lid the proof & port/sherry added (see below).

My stock is slowly getting older by the day but this does work. If you happen to have any port or sherry wine, try a 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of either in with a pour and let it set 10 minutes or so. It's like a finished whiskey and adds more depth. Not really more like traditional WT 101 but it's nice. If you like it you can add some port/sherry right in upfront and age it that way. A little goes a long way.

Some guys soak the wood chips/staves in the port/sherry but I think it's just easier to add it directly with a controlled amount so you can duplicate what you like each batch.

Oh and something to try. Try oaking your own spirits at a couple different strengths. Most guys do 120-125 proof but if not using barrels and only jars with staves/chips in them try lower proof. As already mentioned WT does a lower proof but also try some at 100 or 101 proof. The lower proof brings out more of the vanilla/caramel flavors and less of the harsh bitter tannin. You also don't have to dilute the aged spirit this way as it "rests" in the bottle while aging. Try different things to figure out what you like.
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

The Baker
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by The Baker » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:15 pm

cayars said, 'pickup the WT 101 in 1.75 liter bottle for about $35' .

Here $135 Australian.

Sigh.

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by cayars » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:19 pm

Geoff, that's brutal!

That would be about $83 USD which doesn't sound as bad but jeeze.

Sounds like you need someone in the states or UK or something to send you care packages with brown floor cleaner or sanitizer in them. LOL
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

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Durhommer
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by Durhommer » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:52 pm

That is a bit pricey glenfiddich 15 is 72 dollars here I thought that was high Elijah craig small batch is 28 I just got some and damn it is a fine finish for an 8 to 12 year blend. I like buying bottles of what i want to emulate
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1RiverRunner
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by 1RiverRunner » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:16 pm

Thanks again. That’s going to help me quite a bit :thumbup:

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by still_stirrin » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:43 pm

Durhommer wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:52 pm
....Elijah Craig small batch...I like buying bottles of what i want to emulate...
Yes, EC small batch is very nice, bottled at 94 proof. Much better than Turkey 101, for sure. And at a great price too. Everybody should put a bottle on their shelf...no, wait...that’ll reduce availability and drive up the cost. I like it just where it is now...on my shelf.
ss
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by cayars » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:19 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:43 pm
Durhommer wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:52 pm
....Elijah Craig small batch...I like buying bottles of what i want to emulate...
Yes, EC small batch is very nice, bottled at 94 proof. Much better than Turkey 101, for sure. And at a great price too. Everybody should put a bottle on their shelf...no, wait...that’ll reduce availability and drive up the cost. I like it just where it is now...on my shelf.
ss
Hmm, I must have gotten my last bottle of WT 101 on sale. I write the price I paid with date opened on a masking tape label. I just looked up prices on TotalWine.com to compare prices:
WT 101, 1.75 liter at $42.99
WT 101, 750 ml at $24.49
EC small batch 94 proof, 750 mL $32.49
WT Rare Bread, 750 ml at $48.99

For $10.50 more I'd rather have the extra liter of WT 101 at higher proof. :)

EC small batch is damn good whiskey. It's like drinking a spicy, fruity, vanilla whipped cream whiskey. It's smooth but certain flavors pop or standout. to me. WT is much more rounded in the traditional sense of bourbon. They are different. WT Rare Breed is still hands down better but twice the price. All personal opinion of course.

But keep in mind the Op was asking about Wild Turkey and I mentioned mixing in actual WT 101 at 1/4 to 1/3. That would make a great mixer or sipper whiskey. I'd never use ECsb or Rare Breed in a mix, just wasteful! I also wouldn't use either mixed with home made either. WT 101 works great for this taking away a lot of the young taste and adding the texture/profile that only an older whiskey will have. It's a grat use of $ to augment what you produce.

Sometimes the easiest way to "match" a flavor is to 3 times distill part or all your own (more boring, stripped flavor) then mix in the actual spirit and it's takes over/dominates if lightly oaked. That's what I've found anyway. I've got a little one gallon stove top still I use for experiments or gins and sometimes will dilute and charge it with a liter or so of cut spirit and run it again to see what a 2nd spirit run will do to it. If to light/stripped it can be back mixed. Great way to fill downtime waiting on a ferment to finish and give you another tool to play with (partial 3rd distillation).
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

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TDick
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by TDick » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:03 pm

There are several good interviews with Jimmy Russell on Youtube.
As they point out, Jimmy got out of the lab and on the road promoting the product when the "hipsters" started drinking vodka & gin.
As you try to "replicate", it's interesting that, I guess like many of the old guard, the yeast is the yeast. Same strain, in Wild Turkey's case, for over 60 years. Good luck!


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thecroweater
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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by thecroweater » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:26 am

Understand the Australian tax office excise on most spirits excluding brandy and fortifying spirits is currently $86.90 per litre ( percentage of ethanol only) so about the highest rate in the world. To make it easy imagine you buy a litre bottle of George Dickel @ 100 proof the first $43.45 of the price is straight up excise then add the rest of the cost and then add 10% GST on top of that (yes a tax on a tax) and you see how this price is a tad up on pretty much any place on the face of the planet. You can say holy mother of God but then it's not so bad converted to CAD or USD but as currency is a traded commodity subject to speculation all that really matters is how long it takes to earn it verses what it buys.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by SaltyStaves » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:22 am

1RiverRunner wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:58 am
Any one nail it? How?
They have vast stocks from multiple rickhouses and they create a consistent profile for core products by being good blenders.

Look at any of the big players and see how many products they produce that all have the same mash bill and are all distilled through the same Stills and barrelled at the same ABV.
It tells you that maturation and blending play a significant part in the end result. Batch to batch products (e.g. Rare Breed, Russell's Reserve etc) are from barrels that don't fit the profile.

I don't think anything you do will even come remotely close. But you might just make something you enjoy more.

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Re: Wild turkey run’n

Post by 1RiverRunner » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:19 pm

Thanks for all the tips. Still following.

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