Corn and Malted barley

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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Justinthunder
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Corn and Malted barley

Post by Justinthunder » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:35 pm

I am very new to distilling. I could not find any recipes for just cracked corn with malted barley. I have seen some videos that say you need some sugar with the cracked corn, cracked corn is 15$ for 50 lbs and flaked is 150$ for 50 lbs so adding a little sugar wouldn't be a huge loss. Does anyone have any recipes they could share? I am running a 12 gallon moonshine still. So a 10 Gallon recipe would be ideal. thanks

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Tummydoc
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Tummydoc » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:32 pm

In the tried and true section Nchooch's Carolina bourbon and Honey bear bourbon are good mash recipes, and in the recipe development section look at Chocolate Sundae bourbon. If you've got malted barley and have done all grain beer brewing in the past, there's no need to add sugar.

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Twisted Brick
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Twisted Brick » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:40 pm

JT,

Making a straight corn liquor is fairly straightforward as long as you follow a simple set of rules.

Booners Casual All Corn is a straight corn liquor made with cracked corn that relies on prepared (exogenous) enzymes to convert the starches in corn into the sugar that your yeast will feast on. You can achieve very acceptable results from barley malt in place of these enzymes.

You'll need to do some reading to become familiar with how a corn mash can be optimized (mash and hold temps) and the barley malt temps and ratios (malt to corn) needed to successfully convert your corn.

Lastly, corn does not need sugar like some stray videos claim. Properly milling your corn actually converts quite easily given proper conditions and provides ample amounts of sugar to make a good whiskey.
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Corsaire
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Corsaire » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:45 am

Have a read here

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=67346

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65895

Only corn and malts. I'd make 30 gallons. That way you'll have enough to make 3 stripping runs and do a spirit run.
Don't worry about the specialty malts in the honey bear bourbon and chocolate sundae. It works with any malt with sufficient dp.

Happy mashing!

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by jonnys_spirit » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:34 am

Everything that these guys said and I'll add that for your 12 gallon still you might want to consider using a mash/ferment barrel up to around 50 gallons size like in this easy large batch mashing thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

The idea is that you;re going to want to do a double distillation protocol where you do three to four stripping runs through the still that produces low wines of about 30-40%abv. The low wines aren't really fit for drinking so you collect those until you have enough to fill your boiler and do a spirit run. It's going to take about 3-4 boiler charges to produce a boiler full of low wines. Mashing and fermenting all that at once is a lot easier then doing it 3-4 times in smaller batches...

When you do your spirit run is when you fraction the distillate out into about 25 numbered jars and blend it for your cuts - Heads, Hearts, Tails.

Cheers!
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Justinthunder
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Justinthunder » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:32 am

Thanks for the links guys, I don’t think I’m quite ready to go big yet, I have yet to try my first run yet. I was thinking of running double batches at first, just make 2 10 gallon recipes and run them back to back. How do you know how much yeast to use? Is there like a set amount per gallon or do I know after reading my sugar hydrometer? Also after I do a run do I just open my valve and get rid of the wash in the tank? Then replace it with the second batch?

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Corsaire » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 am

Yup just empty the boiler and refill with fresh mash.

The spent liquid is called backset, pot ale, dunder depending on what you made.
In some recipes it's reused.

As for yeast I use about 1 pack per 25l, so that's about 10grams per 25l I think. Sometimes less if I don't have enough. If I use bakers I just dump a bunch in it. Very scientific.
I think a quick google search on the forum could give you an exact answer. You'll probably also find threads on yeast starters and such. I don't stress over it.

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Twisted Brick » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:25 am

Justinthunder wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:32 am
Thanks for the links guys, I don’t think I’m quite ready to go big yet, I have yet to try my first run yet. I was thinking of running double batches at first, just make 2 10 gallon recipes and run them back to back. How do you know how much yeast to use? Is there like a set amount per gallon or do I know after reading my sugar hydrometer? Also after I do a run do I just open my valve and get rid of the wash in the tank? Then replace it with the second batch?
I think you have some more reading to do so you're comfortable with what you're certain to encounter during your mash session. But to summarize:

You want to expose your corn ( stir corn into heated water) to 200F for 2hrs or more. Finer-ground (half meal/half flour) will be on the short end; hand-milled cracked corn (minimum recommended for corn mash) may take twice that long. Your corn will hydrolize/gelatinize and become thick. A half-pound of barley will help thin it out at this stage, but the enzymes won't last long so stir like a mofo to get it distributed before they get denatured.

Wait for your corn mash to cool to 151F before adding at least 20% barley malt and again stir really well at 15min intervals for 90 min. Example: 20lbs total grain bill for 10gal mash = 2lbs/gal. 20% of 20lbs = 4lbs malt. (The .5lb you used for pre-gelatinization is separate).

That's it. Your work is done, but you'll want to measure the conversion by checking with iodine to confirm complete conversion, and a hydrometer reading to check your starting gravity.

There are plenty of threads here complaining of less-than-acceptable corn mash results and why they occurred. There are also countless threads that warn against the use of Turbo yeasts. Plain 'ol bakers yeast (Fleishmann's or Red Star work well) is popular.
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by hypnopooper » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:28 am

For Corn Whiskey, this recipe works very well. and will fill a 32 gallon Brute garbage can to about 30 gallons. There is a large batch mashing corn thread in the forum if you cannot cook the corn without scorching at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65703

25 Gallons water. No iron in the water is ideal, I use a RO system for my water, but spring water is also a good choice
6 tbsp of PH 5.2 stabilizer
50 Lbs corn the better it's ground the easier it is to get to gelatinization.
Boil in water at 180f or so for an hour or 2 depending on your grind so until it turns to which porridge like consistency
Let cool to 152F
Stir in 12.5Lbs of 2 row malted barley, let sit at as much of a static temperature as possible for 90 minutes or so
do a starch test with iodine, if there is starch left, then give it longer, you can let it go up to 8-10 hours for conversion if needed...

add yeast at whatever temps are needed for your strain, usually below 100F. For corn whiskey I use a cheaper yeast like Red Star DADY, as I don't care for bread yeast in my liquor

Distill and drink as moonshine or put it in a barrel or oak chips for a more mellow flavor depending on your taste.

Check out the book "Making Pure Corn Whiskey: A Professional Guide For Amateur And Micro Distillers" by Ian Smiley. you can google it and the second link was the full book in PDF format, or buy it from amazon and reward the author for his work.

Additionally there is "Modern Moonshine Techniques" By Bill Owens, Chapter 9 has some other corn+ mash recipes and grain percentages you can play with. I used the mash bills to create a spread sheet that will scale them down to a more manageable mash size depending on water amounts. An internet search found a PDF version at https://archive.org/details/Modern_Moon ... s/mode/2up. I know I got this for free back in the day as well when Bill was offering it up on ADI forum.

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Justinthunder » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:53 pm

thanks for the help guys, I just need to get my first run out of the way I feel, gain some confidence. I totally forgot the pot i ordered was only a 32 quart. Things are expensive up here in Canada lol. so looks like for 2 full runs i will be making 3 small 8 gallon batches of mash, until i can get a bigger pot. I have actually been researching and readon a TON of stuff over the past few weeks and my note book is loaded. is it better to boil at around 200 for the 2 hours? or I read that its good to cook at 104 for 20 mins then 130 for 20-30 mins then bring it up to 155 and add the barley and cook for 60-90 mins. im sure there is a ton of ways to make this stuff and it will be alot of trial and error.

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Scorpster » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:09 pm

High corn mashes are likely the toughest mashes of all, adding heat to the mash is very problematic, hence the use of stirrers, steam wands and steam jackets. And the endless threads on the subject here :) I suggest considering a step down mash where you start with boiling water and add ingredients as the mixture cools. Needs a fine grind on the corn, I use flour. Saves a lot of stirring. I use a commercial stick blender to mix my 45L of 50% corn flour. For the last batch I went to 60% as a test and that also worked fine, so my next mash bill will have 60% corn and I will do a test at 70%.
For an easy recipe I'd suggest Odins Rye Bread Whiskey or Teddysads Fast Fermenting Vodka.

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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by 8Ball » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:34 am

Pick up some high temp enzymes, a grain grinder, a couple of big pots, and a mop bucket & squeezer. Makes things manageable.

This is how I do corn & malts:
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=77023

🎱
The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.

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Corsaire
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Re: Corn and Malted barley

Post by Corsaire » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:55 am

Justinthunder wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:53 pm
im sure there is a ton of ways to make this stuff and it will be alot of trial and error.
You're right, and experimenting is half the fun for me.
But for starters I'd recommend a proven method from here ;-)
It's nice to experiment when you already have some booze to help contemplate your next steps.

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