Sundial

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contrahead
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Sundial

Post by contrahead »

sun_stump863p.jpg
The Summer Solstice for the northern hemisphere is coming up in two weeks and I'm trying to make and position a sundial before then. My location is on the 34th parallel north (34°N) and I'm six hours behind Zulu time (GMT -6) and the magnetic declination here is about 9.5 degrees.

In this picture I've got this scrap piece of 2x12” board tacked to a tall tree stump. There are 3 nails sticking up to act as temporary test “styles”; 1 short nail sticking up perpendicular to the surface and 2 others bent over to 34 degrees (my locations latitude). What look like shadows were actually penciled in yesterday at 12:06 when the sun was out, but this picture was taken today with no direct sun because of rain clouds.

So I figured I could just partition the board's surface into equal quadrants by drawing perpendicular lines for North, East, South and West, tack one nail down into the stump and then rotate the board until the sun's shadows came into synchronized alignment. But it's not that simple. The shadows yesterday looked 1 hour off, as if it were 11:00 AM; no matter how I rotated the board. Friggin DST (Daylight Savings Time) perhaps ?

*In the U.S. this year congress decreed that friggin DST should begin 11 days before the Vernal (or Spring) Equinox and will stop friggin DST about 41 days after the Autumnal Equinox [Nov/3/2019 vs Sept/21-23/2019]. But political decisions like this should not influence GMT (Greenwich Mean Time).

* Then I ran across this video yesterday - Calculating Noon Sun Angle. Am I wrong to expect the stylus (sharp edge of shadow and the gnomon supporting it) of a sundial to cast its smallest shadow at high noon ? My Zenith angle looks like 10.5 degrees and my NSA equals 79.5 degrees which seems to be about right but is just adding to my confusion.
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Bushman
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Re: Sundial

Post by Bushman »

Enjoyed the read. This weekend we have a work party out in the islands at my friends 40 acre property. He inherited the property from his grandfather and he has seven beaches on the property. During the work party we get get one of the beaches ready for a group of about 50 campers that come every year to celebrate the summer solstice. They were all friends of his grandfathers. Didn’t realize this was such a big event.
hpby98
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Re: Sundial

Post by hpby98 »

I wonder if an app like a sun seeker would help in this instance?
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heynonny
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Re: Sundial

Post by heynonny »

Tossing a wrench into the mix!

Find your exact latitude & longitude:

https://www.latlong.net/

Another quirk!

The Equation of Time = why solar & 'clock' time differ:

https://www.sundials.co.uk/eot

About 35 years ago, Iwent to Hawaii on vacation. Took my sundial along for the (long) flight.
After doin' calcs for Paia (Maui), I came up with solar noon on one of the two days the sun would be directly overhead there, about 15 minutes after we would land. I was not too sure even after calcing again, so I didnt tell anyone. The terminal at Kahuluii(?) was a huge roof without walls. I ran outside, (by then it was 5 ± minutes before 'noon'). It was NOON! All shadows were exactly under whatever. Flagpole shadow was about 6" long (wind?) Was truly amazing. To me anyways.

Dont know where the book is, when I find it , I'll post, , , ,

-hey-
  
 
 
       Oh,look!! Its a hole in the space-time contuum!!
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

Post by contrahead »

“Sun Seeker” appears to be the proper name for a trademarked app used on iOS and Android devices. Screen shots of the animations look impressive. Personally I don't do cell phones or smart phones. I won't even answer the land line after 10:30 AM. It should be possible though to run a free version of Sun Seeker on the PC. Currently for some reason, I'm not able to install the “BlueStacks” emulator which is necessary to make Sun Seeker preform; but I'll keep fiddling with it.

I've decided that my frustrations are two fold. Firstly, Daylight Savings Time IS confusing the issue (of synchronizing sundial with clock), and secondly is the discrepancy of wide time zones. Everywhere I look online for verification, I am told that my location is “UTC -6”; which is officially correct (currently) but logically fallacious. Mountain Standard Time (MST) (my zone) is UTC -7, or 7 hours behind Greenwich (London). But until November 3rd comes along, I am locked into what is pleasantly called Mountain Daylight Time (MDT). That's one of the reasons that the shadows on my sundial seem too long.

https://time.is/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
* This is a useful little sight to keep your time accurate. Over in the right corner of the screen in small print is “More info”- which is helpful in interpreting your apparent solar time.
mdt2.jpg
mdt_ahead2b.jpg
Ideally it might have been sensible to have divided the world up into 24 time zones but we have more than 40. As it is, time zones are pretty big. A guy 600 miles to the east of me is going to experience high noon before I do. We might experience different shadows on identical sundials simultaneously, but still share the same time zone.
Timez.jpg
Browsing around the Internet yesterday I found this video useful: Intro to Solar Orientation It defines the "solar window", discusses how to find the sun's position using azimuth & altitude and explains how to read a “sun path chart”. From the video I found and used a free online program for creating my own sun path chart. Since decimal values are required for the program I took standard degree, minute, second readings acquired from Google Earth and converted them to decimal latitudes and longitudes using the FCC's converter.
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

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DSCF0880c.jpg
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

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DSCF0891d.jpg
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

Post by contrahead »

DSCF0959h6b.jpg
Its a year later now. The longest day of the year (in the northern hemisphere) is tomorrow (June 20th). The shadows are marching right over the same path as last year. In this picture, only the hour marks for the day of the summer solstice were etched into this semi-hard saltillo floor tile. The two stylus shadows in this image approximate where the arc of the winter solstice should be. I just wasn't out there every hour on the hour to mark the year's longest shadows on the winter solstice. Those positions would be etched out too, otherwise. The wind and rain have worn off all the pencil marks that were scribbled on the tile, only the nails and scratches remain.
5940489-spain-tarragona-ancient-sundial-on-a-stone-platform.jpg
This sundial looks massive and ancient. A photographer or company deliberately watermarked this image, indicating that they have a better version to sell. I've discovered that Roman numerals have at least one decided advantage over the Arabic numerals that we generally use. You can carve or chisel Roman numerals into rock or wood or clay and the result is legible.

DST is currently in effect and (in the US) for this year reverts to Standard Time on Nov 1, 2020. A date chosen by Congress.
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heynonny
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Re: Sundial

Post by heynonny »

Found the book. (3rd post)

Sundials
Their theory and construction
By Albert E. Waugh

Good book, for kids, *smart kids!*

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0486229475?ta ... th=1&psc=1
  
 
 
       Oh,look!! Its a hole in the space-time contuum!!
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

Post by contrahead »

After reading its description - it looks like a book that might well be worth purchasing. I may.

Hawaii is the only state in the US that lays within the Tropic of Cancer. (I once lived on the big island; miss the ocean occasionally but not the island fever).
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Alright; after this I promise no more silly pictures of my dial on a stump... Took this photo today at high noon (+/- 2 min). One nail matching up with the groves (made with a Dremel tool) but the shadow from the nail on the right seems a bit out of place for some reason.
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contrahead
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Re: Sundial

Post by contrahead »



This virtual planetarium looks usefull. A 255 MB download - but its free.
https://stellarium.org
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