What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Grain bills and instruction for all manner of alcoholic beverages.

Moderator: Site Moderator

What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:50 am

Novice here... But I've noticed something.

In making different recipes after making base shine, my peach shine, black and blueberry shine, and raspberry shine is like drinking liquid fire. My apple cinnamon shine, especially after sitting a week goes down very smooth.

In my bit of research, I've read that the more tart the apple in sitting, the more it mellows, and found one recipe actually recommending using crab apples to get rid of the hotness and mellow it out.

At first I just thought it was sugar that mellowed it, but all the other fruits have sugar too, and adding glycerine didn't seem to have much effect. What is it in apples that tames so much? Pectin? Something else?

The reason I ask is because I want to venture into other flavors and have the mellowness my apple brings, I just don't know how. There's obviously something I'm missing.

Thanks!
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby Pikey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:13 pm

How do you do your base shine ?
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby sltm1 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:17 pm

+1 Pikey...sounds like possibly too much sugar or inaccurate cuts to me
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
sltm1
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 913
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:12 am

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby der wo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:19 pm

Probably yes. But anyway it would be very interesting to know if and how the acid content of the apples affects the smoothness. Do you have links to your researches?
User avatar
der wo
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 3311
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
Location: Germany

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby Pikey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:24 pm

Yes - I do flavoured shines and there are some - sloe for example which comes out incredibly smooth whatever base spirit I use and others which vary when I think about it.

So I think a little research and discussion here may be a learning experience 8)
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby The Baker » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:41 pm

Interesting. I see you can get dried sloe berries.

Geoff
The Baker
The Baker
Distiller
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:16 pm

My method is pretty unscientific. I use the cold shine uncle Jessie's method.. and I'll note right now I'm sipping on straight apple pie shine that's absolutely delicious from it.


5lbs sugar
2 cereal bowls full of corn (scientific I know)
1 small can tomato paste
1 packet 15% abv whiskey yeast


Here's the unscientific link I caught regarding smoothing down whiskey. I guess technically this last batch was aged with allegator charred oak blocks and had a fish tank bubbler ran through it on a copper tube for a few days, so there's that. Technically a whiskey based shine is what I make.

https://gizmodo.com/5914858/how-to-make ... -smoother/


What I don't understand is that my peach shine I made a month ago is still a fireball. My apple I made two weeks ago is going down staight as we speak. There's something in the matrix that milds the apple and according to that article, it might be something within the tartness of the apple that does it.

Citric acid? Not sure what other acids would be in apples, but we might be onto something....
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby sweeps » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:52 pm

malignity wrote:Citric acid? Not sure what other acids would be in apples, but we might be onto something....


Malic acid is the main acid in apples. The name is derived from the Latin word for apple, malum, although it is found in lots of other fruit, including sloes and peaches.
sweeps
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:50 am

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby der wo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:42 am

Thanks for the link. Looking at the pictures I am surprised how many apples he takes. It looks like it will taste more like apples than like Whiskey.
Probably I will try it out (with my worst Whiskey first).
User avatar
der wo
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 3311
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
Location: Germany

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:34 am

Per pint, I do 2-3 slices only. After about 2 weeks, all the color is drained from it and taste is MUCH more smooth.

If it's the malic acid, I'm wondering why my peach didn't mellow out. Maybe not enough of it?

I'm not exactly sure all an apple contains, but I can definitely attest that this works -- just not sure why.
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:38 am

This article has me really thinking...

https://www.livescience.com/44686-apple ... facts.html

Vitamin C? Polyphenols? (Don't blueberries have antioxidants too? Maybe different kinds?)
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby WIski » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:47 am

When making apple brandy I take a smaller heads cut to capture more apple flavor in the finished product. I feel this is a necessary evil when doing apple. That being said, the end product is much hotter than my typical whiskeys which are pretty smooth after cuts. I was hoping extra time in my once used Balcones would straighten this out but this process has me hoping there might be a short cut and no fears of contaminating the flavor as its apple based already. I will give this a go with a small sample. I would be skeptical of adding apple slices to my bourbon though just because of the flavor. Thanks for the insight malignity!! :eugeek:
WIski
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby The Baker » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:43 am

Maybe potato slices in vodka???

Geoff
The Baker
The Baker
Distiller
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Australia

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:24 pm

I did a little digging. It's most definitely not polyphenols doing this. Berries are higher than apples and my berry blends didn't mellow.
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby DAD300 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:53 pm

Dif alcohols and dif acids form dif esters. It is more than possible that the acid(s) in apples use the some heads and tails constituents dif than other fruits. Thus removing what you taste as burn.

Also some ingredient in the apples may be coating your mouth and preventing the burn. Keep researching.

There is an article in Fall Artisan Distiller about this.
User avatar
DAD300
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Southern U.S.

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby HDNB » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:03 pm

vanilla beans knock the edges off too. still tastes like whiskey, specially if you don't over do it and use some oak too.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
 
Posts: 4873
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:12 am

In reading this PDF, I'm thinking malic acid is what's doing it. What exactly it's doing I couldn't tell you though. My scientific brain only works so well before morning coffee.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... FHsFJCWnt6
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:16 am

Yep, this has to be it.

Wikipedia link explains malic acid is what gives tartness to fruit.

Given that first link suggesting crab apples, there's no question those are more tart, thus likely having a much higher malic acid level.
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:21 am

If I'm understanding this all correctly, malic acid can ferment sugars. If that's the case, this is likely removing any leftover low ester sugar alcohols and fermenting them out and thus making a higher grade...?

Here's the Wikipedia link. The PDF also mentions this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malic_acid
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby malignity » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:22 am

I'm not understanding why my berries didn't accomplish this though when my apples did unless it just has a much higher concentration.
malignity
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby Hilltop » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:12 pm

Are your blends all using the same base liquer? In other words can it be as simple as one batch was mixed hotter at higher proof? It sounds to me like your Apple cinnamon was made using good cuts. Maybe your other batches were made with too much heads.
"Virtute et armis" By valor and arms

Let's keep our country free as God has given us.

"Give me Liberty or Give me Death."
User avatar
Hilltop
Novice
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:48 pm
Location: South Pole

Re: What is it about apples that removes the burn in shine?

Postby masonsjax » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:04 pm

Doesn't an acid and an alcohol combine to form an ester? Probably that's what's going on.
User avatar
masonsjax
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:26 pm
Location: Appalachia


Return to Recipe Development



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests