Rum Talk......

Anything to do with rum

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

gatortommy wrote:Just ordered some panela (thanks for the tip) and am starting to plan an all panela run. I've done multiple blackstrap molasses/white sugar runs and am quite happy with my product, but have never done panela.

When calculating your wash SG, do you just calculate as if it were white sugar?
It is approximately 80% sugar, 20% molasses.
So figure 10 lbs of panela is about the sucrose equivalent of 8lbs of table sugar.

Panela contains sucrose and fructose so in its raw form it has a more pleasant sweet quality IMO.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
gatortommy
Novice
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by gatortommy »

Thanks, good information. What about Panela rum vs blackstrap/white sugar? I typically do single or 1.5 potstill runs, lots of molasses, and well oaked. How would the two compare taste wise? I'm guessing the Pamela might be lighter? Perhaps better white?
Ferguson
Novice
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:05 pm

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Ferguson »

Following someones link, i went to melissas dot com and ordered some sugar cane pieces. After calling the company i found out that they were harvested in Hawaii, and vacuum sealed in HI as well. So I'm hoping that there will be some good bacterial and yeast strains on the surface.
I'm starting a dunder pit, and I plan on throwing one of them in there, whole, with the dunder. If everything goes well then I will get a good colony going here in PA.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

gatortommy wrote:Thanks, good information. What about Panela rum vs blackstrap/white sugar? I typically do single or 1.5 potstill runs, lots of molasses, and well oaked. How would the two compare taste wise? I'm guessing the Pamela might be lighter? Perhaps better white?
Prolly best to find what suits your budget. Molasses here is really expensive. Panela ends up being more economical for me.

Also finding out for yourself really helps you along with establishing the only point of view that truly matters.There is plenty of love to go round for all things that ferment (for our purposes).

When I have it, I add molasses as an adjunct to the panela rather than the opposite. I can't remember that last time I used table sugar.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Doogie
Trainee
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:25 pm

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Doogie »

I think next spring I am going to start a dunder pit ... I like my blackstrap molasses rum (I run about 1.13/4 SG and finish out around 1.02). I boost with white sugar, strip and potstill. Only ever had a minor puke issue with an digressive strip run, but since I run it again, and it was not chunky, no big deal
LTV - "keep in mind distilling is like masturbating. You do one wrong and you go blind."

Want to keep people from consulting idiots on youTube about distilling?? Don't be an idiot when someone asks for advice ... Help them
gatortommy
Novice
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by gatortommy »

LWTCS wrote:
gatortommy wrote:Thanks, good information. What about Panela rum vs blackstrap/white sugar? I typically do single or 1.5 potstill runs, lots of molasses, and well oaked. How would the two compare taste wise? I'm guessing the Pamela might be lighter? Perhaps better white?
Prolly best to find what suits your budget. Molasses here is really expensive. Panela ends up being more economical for me.

Also finding out for yourself really helps you along with establishing the only point of view that truly matters.There is plenty of love to go round for all things that ferment (for our purposes).

When I have it, I add molasses as an adjunct to the panela rather than the opposite. I can't remember that last time I used table sugar.
Budget wise, molasses is much cheaper for me. I went by my local feed mill yesterday and picked up 20 gallons (180 pounds) of blackstrap and they charged me $22.00...tax included. Time to get the rum machine cranked back up! :D
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

gatortommy wrote: I went by my local feed mill yesterday and picked up 20 gallons (180 pounds) of blackstrap and they charged me $22.00...tax included.
Is that 30-33% sugars or 50%?
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
Tater
Admin
Posts: 9678
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:19 am
Location: occupied south

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Tater »

Most feed molasses Ive bought ran around 11 -15 cents a lb.12 lbs in a gallon with a average 4 lbs ferment able sugar in each gallon .This has held true for last 10 years Ive been buying it in my location from the feed mills that make sweetfeed.
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
googe
retired
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: awwstralian in new zealund

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by googe »

Most stockfeed stuff here is around 45% sugars, the refinery stuff is 58g sugars per 100g . $26 for 25kg of stockfeed and $19 for 14kg of refinery.
Here's to alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems.
"Homer J Simpson"
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

googe wrote:Most stockfeed stuff here is around 45% sugars, the refinery stuff is 58g sugars per 100g . $26 for 25kg of stockfeed and $19 for 14kg of refinery.
My new best friend has told me that with their modern equipment , below 50% the process becomes more expensive than the remaining sugars are worth.

So anything lower has likely been diluted.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Sawbone
Novice
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:39 am

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Sawbone »

So I posted a query a couple of pages back about flavorings for dark rum. I got a helpful response and I really appreciate it.

Here is what I'm doing at this point. I have a 4-liter batch resting in a 5-liter oak cask. It is a run from a 6-gallon wash of blackstrap molasses and cane sugar, bread yeast and a pound of malt sugar. It has a nice flavor, buttery and rummy. The cask has been used once, so its oakiness should be fairly attenuated. I've actually added some dark char chips and some medium char French oak chips to increase the oakiness. It has been resting for about two months and has taken on a very mild oaky flavor and pale amber color. It is pretty nice as it is, but I really want a darker product.

So, I just ran a batch of a more complex rum recipe using blackstrap, cane sugar, and fruit additives - apricots, raisins, grapes, orange with peel and pineapple. I saved some of the beer before I ran it, about two cups. I diluted that 1:1 with water, then added a cup of blackstrap, an ounce of turbinado sugar, a cup of apricots and raisins chopped, a ring of dried pineapple and a couple of slices of orange with peel. Simmered that on the stove for a half-hour, then cooled and strained and filtered, and added two tbsp of vanilla. I added about 12 ounces of this syrup to the four liters of rum in the cask, then further diluted by adding purified water to the cask to bring the alcohol level down to 80%.

I'm expecting to leave it in the cask for another 2-3 months, but on tasting it now, it is really nice. The color is a dark amber, and the flavor is really complex, lots of fruit notes, the butteriness, and the oak all mingling nicely. I expect it will clarify in the cask and I'll rack it off carefully to bottles. Then I'll drink some and get back to you all!
User avatar
Jimbo
retired
Posts: 8423
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Jimbo »

Very Interesting article.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... sugar-cane" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Beerswimmer
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: In the garage

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Beerswimmer »

Just started my first panela ferment. What yeast do you guys use with panela? How do you guys usually run this? As a single slow run, or a do you do seeral strips and then a slow spirit run? Do you use the dunder and do generations, or just do ferments without dunder?

I normally like heavier Navy style rums, curious as to how this will be :D
Ut Alii Vivant!!!!
Beerswimmer
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: In the garage

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Beerswimmer »

Panela is fermenting now, but smells sufery :eh:
Ut Alii Vivant!!!!
User avatar
Jimbo
retired
Posts: 8423
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Jimbo »

No worries that dissipates. Differenet things, and yeast, can cause some sulfides. Lager yeasts in beer especially common. But the good news it they always dissipate and dont cause permanent problems.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by DFitz »

Thus far I've filled two barrels of rum. One, a 5 gal. barrel using fancy molasses/brown sugar washes and another a 10 gal barrel using black strap/brown sugar. I get 5 gallon pails from a restaraunt supply for a good price so the fancy molasses wasn't that bad price wise. No shipping makes a huge difference price wise. My 5 gallon barrel finished off well after a year in the barrel and it's been bottled in gallon jugs now for 4 months two gallons w/vanilla bean, one gallon pineapple/clove/ raisin, and the last gallon straight. The flavor thus far is fantastic @ 65% still on glass. Soon I'll lower the percentages to 45% and 50% on the different flavors bottle and box up a couple of cases to put away for some years.

I'll do the same with the blackstrap batch when it's done. I still have about 25 gal. of Dunder in a sealed 30 gal. barrel waiting on some panela runs. I'm wondering if the general consensus thinks that panela makes a good light rum or more of a flavor between brown sugar and molasses.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by NZChris »

Ran some dunder today. I've always had trouble with the non-fermentable sugars, but this time, instead of putting it on my weeds, I had tossed some bakers yeast into it and put it in an unused incubator to see what would happen. Bugger me, the SG dropped and done tole me I had 8% ABV in the dunder. Put it through my pot and it smelled a bit like the burned rubber smell you get from autolysis, but not too bad considering it was just a stripping run.

I'll put it through my mini pot as soon as I get a chance and see if I can tidy it up.

I have kept all of the dunder from today's generation #5, will start it with the same dunder yeasts, control the pH, and treat it with a bit more respect.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by NZChris »

I did the dunder only spirit run and it didn't clean up to anything nice.

I suspect this is due to me not being able to get a clear wash with no yeast cells in it for the stripping run and that the 'burnt rubber' smell is coming from the contents of the dead yeast cells spoiling during the next ferment. If that is the case, all of this batch will have some autolysis pong, but not as strong as in this experimental run.

At the moment, I'm thinking that having a dunder pit might not be such a good idea. Not for me, anyway. I have chucked some yeast and sea shells into this run's dunder to see what I get this time.
eVenom
Novice
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:24 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by eVenom »

I am looking to make some Rum and I have been reading a lot and buying a couple of commercial rums to get an idea try and get an idea of what people mean by the terms they use to describe it.

I am still in the process of building my Still so I am using the time to research it!

I like heavy full flavored rum and I have read most of the recipes here but for example Hook Rum or Pugirum seems to be close to what I am looking for but is there something commercially available that is comparable to these in flavors?

What I am trying to say is for example if I wanted to have an idea of how a rye whiskey will taste like I would go to ABC and buy a bottle of Rye Whiskey and it would give me an idea of what it will taste like. Good, bad, better or worse are subjective but it will give me an idea of what I am after.

With rum is not as easy since most commercial clear rums are light in flavor and the dark, aged or spiced rums are not necessarily heavy full flavored but just like light rums that have been aged or spiced

I hope this makes sense. Also I know that the best way for me to find out is to make it but hey...
bcboyz86
Swill Maker
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:06 pm

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by bcboyz86 »

So... I haven't been on here in a very long time saddly :( But I had a question for sawbone... I did kinda what you did with the fruit and spices boil to get a "spiced rum essence" and it looked really good, smelled great and had that spicy fruity flavor I wanted in my rum, but the bummer is it was super cloudy when I was done cooking it. And I let it sit for months waiting for.it to clear and it never did. So I was tired of waiting for it to look better and just dumped it Into my 2 gallon jugs of rum I had cut way down to 90pf and tossed in some oak, little but of home made Carmel, and some coconut shavings. Several months have passed and the entire jug is a hazy brownish whiteish color. Any idea on how to clarify it? I'm ganna run it through some cloth filters to get the big chunks out first and keep filtering it down to a smaller and smaller filter, but I have a suspicion it won't totally clear it. Is there any kind of additive that will clear it up and not affect the taste at all? Or do I just have some cloudy rum and a lesson learned?

And for eVenom, if your looking for simple, the PugiRum is super easy to do, and very fast turnaround...literally only days from start to totally finished. So if ya don't end up liking it you may only be out $10 and a week of your time. I personally used a gallon of fancy molasses for $11 from Cash and Carry (local restaurant supplier) and it had 8lbs of sugar in it so I added another 2lbs of dark brown sugar for a 5 gal batch and it turned out good, but very distinct. I believe I had a lot of residual sugar left over and so when I ran it it caramelized the molasses and brown sugar left in the wash and I got a burnt/carmelized molasses kind of flavor. It was by no means bad tasting, just very distinct. So the second batch I tried I used half gallon of molasses and 4lbs of golden brown and it was much much lighter on flavor. But I think the sweet spot for me is going to be maybe 3/4 gallon molasses and 3lbs golden? Or possible just a gallon of molasses by itself and let it go at that. But whatever ya end up making when you go to flavor it, just toss in what you like to taste in the runs you like to drink and with some trial and error you'll find a good combo for your taste buds. I love the Carmel and vanilla with a touch of cloves, cinnamon, and some pineapple for a fruit kick so that's what I use. Not really any specific amounts, just start small...let if sit for a week or 2, try it and add more ingrediants as needed. Then when your flavor is good I take all the fruits and stuff out and toss in some medium toast oak chips and a few med toast/lite char chips and let it get to a good deep ice tea color OR untill It starts to get a good oak smell and taste to it. And right as the oak smell/taste is a little overpowering I pull the oak and then put it in deep storage. Dig it out in about 6-8months all that oak smell and flavor will mellow out and really smooth out and marry the spices and oak flavors with the rum as well as the char pieces will have carbon filtered the rum a bit for some extra natural filtering.and it will probably be some of the best rum you''ll have ever had. And in the meantime, you can do some more runs and more experiments. Just make sure you keep EXPLICIT NOTES!!!! NOTES are key to keeping what you liked and didn't like seperate. Especially when 8months down the road you crack open a bottle and have a sip of something that is just pure rummy heaven, you'll know exactly how to re-make that same remarkable flavor and in a much larger quantity... But that's just kinda what I've learned a little after doing it for a bit :)
..the smarter you get, the more you realize you don't know...
Andy Capp
Swill Maker
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:32 pm
Location: Australia's rude bit

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Andy Capp »

After doing 12 gens of hook rum in a row using 6lt of fresh dunder in 26lt washes i am convinced that dunder increases the heads and causes the tasty tails to disappear. It became harder and harder to blend trying to find the good jars. I didn't change anything from the recipe each wash. Run 13 was a test using no dunder and the same fresh ingredients and what a difference. The heads portion was smaller and the sweet yummy jar of tails reappeared.
I run a slow and steady trickle from single runs on a thumper and charge with low wines. The low wines were collected before the run of gens started and mixed together so it was all the same.
Thanks to my learnings on how to make cuts and blend from HD, the rum i made is aging nicely on charred old whiskey barrel staves, but next time i do rum it will be dunderless and i can't wait for a comparison taste test of both aged products.
A hangover is when you open your eyes in the morning and wish you hadn't.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by rad14701 »

NZChris wrote:I did the dunder only spirit run and it didn't clean up to anything nice.

I suspect this is due to me not being able to get a clear wash with no yeast cells in it for the stripping run and that the 'burnt rubber' smell is coming from the contents of the dead yeast cells spoiling during the next ferment. If that is the case, all of this batch will have some autolysis pong, but not as strong as in this experimental run.

At the moment, I'm thinking that having a dunder pit might not be such a good idea. Not for me, anyway. I have chucked some yeast and sea shells into this run's dunder to see what I get this time.
The yeast may have been an issue but probably not the entire problem... Personally, I would have diluted the low wines back down to the 8% that the dunder and perhaps the original wash started out at... You know my mantra, water is the best filter...
Fidget
Novice
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Fidget »

Does anyone here get a good rum doing just a single spirit run, no strip run? Alembic / copper pot still.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

Pretty sure I read Tater runs single batches low and slow.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
Jimbo
retired
Posts: 8423
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Jimbo »

"Good rum" is pretty subjective, I like my Paniela based rum in one slow run, but my wife prefers it with two runs
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by LWTCS »

Jimbo for your wife is that two slow runs or a quick strip with a spirit run?
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
Jimbo
retired
Posts: 8423
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm
Location: Down the road a piece.

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by Jimbo »

Hi Larry, it was one slow run, and then another slow run. Because I intended to stop at one. we are still working on the first couple of gallons I made, I don't drink rum much and she doesn't drink much. But I do have 56 pounds of panela from sugar daddy sitting here ready to cook up :ebiggrin:
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
User avatar
thatguy1313
Distiller
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:14 pm
Location: Bulldawg Country

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by thatguy1313 »

Anybody in GA got a good source for molasses? Cheapest I can find it is webstaurant and they want more for shipping than the molasses costs! It would end up being about $10 a gallon. Which is about what I can get it for locally.
No, officer, I wasn't distilling alcohol! It was probably that guy!

Important information for new distillers
MyUncleMo
Swill Maker
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:00 am

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by MyUncleMo »

thatguy1313 wrote:Anybody in GA got a good source for molasses? Cheapest I can find it is webstaurant and they want more for shipping than the molasses costs! It would end up being about $10 a gallon. Which is about what I can get it for locally.
Market Grocery is in GA - they are like our local Cash and Carry... or Smart and Final... there are a bunch of them. They keep it with the pancake syrups not sugar as you might expect. They also have 50lb bags of sugar stacked high if needed ;)
My first Hook Rum taught me some stuff. It got costly buying 16oz jars of molassas... I bought a shitload of jars... now I get a few gallons for less cost and less work.
Good luck!
My Uncke Mo taught me how to make apple Jack when I was in 6th Grade.

Questions? Read this first...
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 15&t=52975
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Rum Talk......

Post by dan_buddy »

Have any of you guys tried fermenting just brown sugar water and yeast. ?
Is there enuf nutrients ? Have any guesses ?
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
Post Reply