Rum Talk......

[DFitz]

This week I'll be experimenting with dunder. By BOP/Boiler's drain valve sits about an inch or better from the bottom of the boiler so I always have a little left in the bottom when its finished draining. This dunder smelled so good I couldn't part with it. Besides I already filled my dunder pit from previous runs so I'd had to have thrown this out.

I drained the last if it into a couple of old milk bottles where it will remain in chilly night temps to clear.

After clearing I'll siphon off most of the dunder to prevent taking any of the yeast.
My plan is to render this down considerably and adding some panela that I've saved back. I’ll render it down further making a nice dark syrup and add it to some well-aged rum I have on hand. I’ll try a quart first adding the syrup gradually and take notes along the way. If beneficial I may make a couple gallons of some black rum.

[Capt Tiller]

Hi Guy's, I might be a little late in finding this forum, but boy has it been useful in many ways.
Today I spent most of the day reading and catching up, however, it's the use of dunder and methods of making rum that I'm very interested in.

My dunder pit is now 7 years old, I guess I have a different take on how to use dunder, bear with me, you can critique my methods after you read this, perhaps you might like to try them as well!

Firstly the dunder pit, simply, it's a fermenter that has a hose/filler running to the bottom. ie it's bottom filling so the culture on top isn't disturbed. After 7 years, it's a wonderful amalgamation of many bi-products of different rum recipes.


I've tried different methods, always using a pot still, running a stripping run generally obtaining 60%, before using the remainder, I use 1L of dunder to 3L of stripped rum then topping up the dunder pit with the remains.

With me so far?

Now for the interesting bit.
I've always been a Muscut and Port lover, so it occurred to me that a Solera setup might work.
Continuing with the experiment, I set up a 6 "keg" Solera. It did take a quite a few "runs" but I have it working as 3 "kegs" at the bottom, 2 on top and the main (and finished product) on the top.
The procedure is to never let the top keg become less than 50% full, it's topped up from the middle 2, which in turn are topped up from the bottom level.
The bottom level is on Oak, the next level has raisins, while the last has a slice of 7 year old pineapple and ginger.
After reading some of the earlier infusion recipes, I'm going to setup a secound top level with some of the ideas in this thread.
What is most important here is the aging process. I now have 7 year old rum available (next year it becomes 8 and so one), so it does take time to build up stock. In the process, the the dunder is aging and to start the next ferment all I need to do is to tap off some of the lees in the dunder fermenter and off we go again..

[bluenose]

I saved some dunder from a molasses stripping run and set it aside. I forgot to put it in the freezer and not there's some mold on the top about the size of a quarter. I was going to use it to flavour/colour the rum after the spirit rum, but now I'm afraid of infection. I know dunder is supposed to be moldy, but it usually gets put through the still before it gets consumed, no?

I'm thinking of removing the mold, filtering the dunder through a coffee filter, and boiling it on the stove for a few minutes and then freezing it once it cools down a bit.

Will this work?

[bluenose]

So, I boiled up some 1L mason jars and lids in one pan, and the filtered dunder in another pan.

WARNING: Dunder contains alcohol... so boiling it on the stove is probably ill advised. My saving grace is that we have an electric, glasstop stove and I had the range fan going full blast... smelled good though

[NZChris]

I'd be investigating why your dunder had alcohol in it. Do you have something that is fermenting the normally non-fermentables and could be used to increase your yields? or is it less exciting, like shutting down too soon?

[rad14701]

So, I boiled up some 1L mason jars and lids in one pan, and the filtered dunder in another pan.

WARNING: Dunder contains alcohol... so boiling it on the stove is probably ill advised. My saving grace is that we have an electric, glasstop stove and I had the range fan going full blast... smelled good though

Use caution with that exhaust fan because many could potentially ignite any buildup of fumes... They are intended to remove smoke and steam, not combustible vapors... A poorly designed system, not kept clean, can even ignite grease buildup... Consider it as dangerous as releasing alcohol vapor in any enclosed area... Just sayin...

[bluenose]

I'd be investigating why your dunder had alcohol in it. Do you have something that is fermenting the normally non-fermentables and could be used to increase your yields? or is it less exciting, like shutting down too soon?

I collected the stripping runs down until it was coming off at 10%, so I'm only guessing there was a little bit in there... Once it was coming to a boil on the stove the ETOH would be the first to come off, no?

Use caution with that exhaust fan because many could potentially ignite any buildup of fumes... They are intended to remove smoke and steam, not combustible vapors... A poorly designed system, not kept clean, can even ignite grease buildup... Consider it as dangerous as releasing alcohol vapor in any enclosed area... Just sayin...

I do remember reading that, thanks for the reminder.

While I was boiling it down I realized that it would also be getting more concentrated. I'm not sure what that means, but perhaps stronger flavour when I go to add it to the finished product

[DFitz]

Changing your exhaust to a 12v marine application (a simple marine blower) would alleviate rads worries.

I'm more interested in Capt Tillers post though. So are you saying you are using several oak barrels for infused spirits or stainless kegs?

[Capt Tiller]

DFitz
My setup is made up of 5L glass flagons with oak chips, if I could find a source of inexpensive barrels then I would have gone down that route. IIRC I had a quote @ around $250 each. Every thing I read about aging pointed to glass and Oak Chips, so I chose that route.

I've never added anything to the top 2 flagons, only topping up with rum as required.

The bottom 3 flagons all have oak chips, 1 has chips only, 2 has chips & raisins, 3 has chips & pineapple (nearly all in solution now.

The next 2 flagons (middle). 1 has Chips and Cinnamon, 2 has chips & 1 tea bag of Earl Grey & 1 bag of lemon/ginger.

The top flagon has only chips and raisins.

I have only topped up the bottom 3 with new chips once (last year), the spirit was starting to loose colour.

The %ABV is roughly 50-55%, just use it as it comes out .....

Initially, I decided to add different woods/leaves/herbs as I had no idea or recipe to use, it was a leap into the unknown and a lot of blind faith thrown in as well. ( I wasn't aware of this forum at that time).

I really can't add any more, except to encourage others to try it, it's been interesting especially after eldest son return from the Trinidad with a bottle of Angostura 12 year rum. Yum, now I have something to aspire to...

[NZChris]

I collected the stripping runs down until it was coming off at 10%, so I'm only guessing there was a little bit in there... Once it was coming to a boil on the stove the ETOH would be the first to come off, no?

I very much doubt that ethanol vapor at 10% coming off dunder is going to blow your hat off if you light a fag.

I have had a significant SG drop in dunder, but stupidly didn't keep the flora that did it.

Now, I have a rule that I must record the SG of dunder I'm going to keep, be very unhygienic, and if it does have an SG drop, keep whatever did it alive.

[Capt Tiller]

I should have added.

The above is the family reserve rum, my every day drinker is made using still spirits flavours, never had a special one so I just chop and change between the different flavours.

I've got a quasi-solaria set up with these as well, but different in the respect that I use 1.25L Mixture bottles with Oak Chips for aging.

Method:
Never drink the entire bottle.
I always leave 300ml (approx & it's the emergency spirit, thankfully never used) in each then add new spirit to each bottle and approx 5ml of Vanilla extract.
Usually mix up 2 bottles of flavour and get nearly 6* 1.25L bottles after they have been topped up.

This is also 7 years in making...

[shinendine]

I have a question to some of you dunder heads. I have 15 gallons of blackstrap that has been sitting for almost a year. It is separated into three 5 gallon buckets, each sealed. There is what looks like an inch-thick mold cap on each buckets contents. Do any of you see a problem using this in a wash? There is pressure in the lid. It starts to swell up and I vent it off every once in a while. It smells delicious. Molasses is cheap around here so i'm not worried about the cost, it's really more of a PITA to get rid of this.

[shinendine]

Anybody in GA got a good source for molasses? Cheapest I can find it is webstaurant and they want more for shipping than the molasses costs! It would end up being about $10 a gallon. Which is about what I can get it for locally.

Have you checked to see if you have any sugar cane refineries there in GA? I'm around New Orleans and I take 5 gallon buckets to get filled straight out the 3" tap. 'ol boy at the tap never charges me the same thing. Usually just how he's feeling that day, lol. but $15 for 20 gallons is about the going rate round here.

[shinendine]

I should have added.

The above is the family reserve rum, my every day drinker is made using still spirits flavours, never had a special one so I just chop and change between the different flavours.

I've got a quasi-solaria set up with these as well, but different in the respect that I use 1.25L Mixture bottles with Oak Chips for aging.

Method:
Never drink the entire bottle.
I always leave 300ml (approx & it's the emergency spirit, thankfully never used) in each then add new spirit to each bottle and approx 5ml of Vanilla extract.
Usually mix up 2 bottles of flavour and get nearly 6* 1.25L bottles after they have been topped up.

This is also 7 years in making...

Do you have any pictures of this setup? I'm very interested but I'm having a hard time picturing what's going on...

[InglisHill]

Currently have a dunder pit going through it's first period of decay.......

What a great thread!

Whatever happened to LL, shame to see him dissapear.

[Capt Tiller]

Do you have any pictures of this setup? I'm very interested but I'm having a hard time picturing what's going on...

I missed this question, better late than never.

There isn't any setup, picture lining up bottles that have 300ml of remaining spirit in each.

Simply top up each one with the new/fresh rum until full.

The secret (if you want to call it that) is that there is always 300ml of aged spirit present in the bottle.

Why 300ml? I can't answer that, it just works and my principle is not to fix something that is working.

[Greig56]

Interesting read here!
I have two questions relating to rum!
First, trying my first rum here, has anyone been using any of that Stillspirits yeast that says is for Rum. I tried their yeast that was for whiskey and was quite nicely impressed, but!! This rum package, well it says in the fine print it's for 23ltrs but I have tried splitting it for two 23 ltr primary washes. I have two buckets of feed molasses I'm using, I've done a yeast bomb and [following aither Pugi or Buccaneer Bob's I can't remember which as at work here and trying to finish quick!]I'm following what's basically a decoction -starting with a yeast added that's gonna work for a bit till you later add your other sugar which saves your yeast and lets you run a higher potential wash abv etc etc..
What's with this yeast?? It's been this as of this aft three days! I have done a combination yeast starter and sprinkling it over the top of the buckets -inside acourse..! ALL I have gotten out of this is the washes look like it's coke in the buckets...! It's 'kinda' looking like a pop does fresh in a glass no ice! Something's working -I think but all I see are these wee little sprinkles or pops off a light's reflection behind my head, no bubbles or froth nada! Something is happening but for all my years brewing I've never ever seen something like this!! Has anyone done, used or seen this before??
I am going on some sort of faith that if I mix my sugar well in some hot water, let it cool enough to add much later tonight that something much more obvious will happen..!!!!
Any Ideas?
My second question came off another thread but it should work well in this thread. If a rum should come off your still that's a wee bit too flavourful [gasp shame!] and a guy wants to what be attentive and hope it won't be that that much! What should I expect if I tried a bit of baking soda before the pririt run? What reading I've done about it well it's just a bit elusive on what baking soda will do! Will it smooth it out considerably or do something for a rum altogether different? I quite simply don't want to have to leave it on oak till the end of November sort of thing!
What say ye?

[eVenom]

I am not entirely sure what you are asking on the first question but I see a couple of things that stand out as potential problems. StillSpirits yeast is a turbo yeast and you mention a high wash ABV. I suggest you follow one of the tried and true recipes like it seems that you already have read since you mentioned Pugi and Bob.

On the Second questions. What do you mean too much flavor? is the rum tasting too much like molasses? is that bad?... did you taste it after just a stripping run? In any case don't use Baking soda. Just by diluting in water and doing a spirit run will mellow out a lot of the flavor.

Good luck

[NZChris]

Use Specific Gravity to measure the progress of your ferment.

If the flavor is too strong for your liking, blend it with some neutral.

[Capt Tiller]

I tried the Rum Yeast, IIRC it was in separate pack to the turbo ingredients. Presently, it's into it's 5th generation and performing nicely.
There would be some interesting mutations in the brew now, will take a pic as it all top brewing and forms an interesting culture.

[aircarbonarc]

This has been a very interesting thread, spent the time read and learned alot. Im looking for a full flavored rum, usually I'm doing a 100% Blackstrap wash, the hearts of the stripping run end up tasting like a good rum should but when I'm in my final finish it seems to have lost the flavor. Not too sure what is going on. I currently have a bunch sitting on oak and the flavor transformation is going well. I've also noticed that the Bakers yeast I'm using is giving a strange off odour I'm hoping will fade away over time.

[LWTCS]

Maybe you are over pitching?

[aircarbonarc]

Maybe you are over pitching?

What would be the proper amount of Bakers yeast for 14 gallons?

[LWTCS]

Maybe you are over pitching?

What would be the proper amount of Bakers yeast for 14 gallons?

You will have to decide that. But try and scale it back so that you get a robust fermentation and not so much yeasty yeast if you see my meaning?

[aircarbonarc]

I'm gonna try for 2 Tablespoons.

So lastnight I siphoned a little jar from a pure molasis rum I had sitting on some charred, Sherry infused oak for about a month. I added a little caramelized sugar for taste. Straight up its about 67% and has a nice taste, a little neutral no molassis but the off smell has faded. I tried a little later in a Tumbler with a bit of ice, it was tasty and the molasses flavor came out a bit. Needs more time to age and something to give it a thicker mouth feel and flavor. My second glass though was something of a kicker, I drank it a bit slower and then it really kicked me in the mouth. I think the molasses flavor decided to come out and actually was nice at first then became overpowering as the ice watered down the liquor. I was impressed but at the same time it became a bit too pungent. This is a good thing because i also have about 12litres of a Jaggery based light rum, its very light flavored, a little head heavy and sitting for 6 months on toasted oak, a vanilla bean and a good handful of diced raisins. So I'm going to play blender and try these two together to make a well balanced lighter rum. What really surprised me was how the molasses decided to kick my taste buds after just a little ice was added.

[LWTCS]

Gonna place this here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Someone help remember page 17 on the Rum talk thread.
Thanks.

[trichardson]

I know you all are well past me ... but I'd love to try a rum
Do have experience and plenty of quality equipment ... Can someone school me on where to start ? Point me to a starting point ..
I may have limitless molasses ... so I thought I should experiment.

Thanks,

Tim

[raketemensch]

Search for pugirum and/or buccaneer bob rum.

[Rastus]

Gonna place this here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Someone help remember page 17 on the Rum talk thread.
Thanks.

wow LWTCS!!

thanks for the reading material, just at a time when i am needing to understand my molasses addiction....

beautiful

[Beerswimmer]

Back at it again after a year plus! I'll be using straight blackstrap for a heavy rum. But first I made a 5.5g wash of brown sugar from the back of my spice cabinet and 2 jars of Grandmas robust molasses with bread yeast. After it finished I ran it in my little stovetop rig. I went slow to pull out the heads and tossed them, then went full power to strip it down to basically stinky water. I just wanted this run for the strip and the dunder. I split the dunder and put 1 gallon in each of 2 fermentors, then added 2 gallons of molasses and 2 gallons of cold water and dumped in bread yeast. It's been fermenting for 4 days and is close to being finished. I'll be dumping both into my keg boiler with the gen 1 strip and stripping this and continuing the same way for a few more generations until I think I can get enough hearts to fill a small used whiskey barrel to sit until New Years. Can't wait for the weekend!!