George Washington Rye Recipe

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George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:11 pm

Has anyone tried the George Washington Rye recipe? If so could you give details on your mash method?

Washington's Whiskey Recipe

The recipe, or "mash bill," calls for 65 percent rye, 30 percent corn and 5 percent malted barley.

First, grind the grains into a coarse meal. Then, mix the rye and corn in a wood vessel called a "hog's head." Add hot and cold water. Stick your hand in the mash to make sure it isn't too hot. If it doesn't burn, the temperature is just right. Add barley and stir.

Cool the mixture down a bit more, and add yeast. Let the mixture ferment for a few days.

Pour the mixture into a copper still, and let it boil. The alcohol will vaporize and condense, flowing out of a tube, also known as a worm.

Collect the liquid and run it through the copper still one more time. Now you have finished whiskey.

Washington barreled his whiskey and sold it immediately. These days, distillers age it for a few years to improve its taste.

Source: Jim Beam master distiller Jerry Dalton / The Associated Press
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Tater » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:43 pm

Thats 35 percent Indian corn.
PLEASE READ THIS FORUMS RULES AND THESES Links: http://homedistiller.org and New Distiller Reading Lounge I use a pot still
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Dnderhead » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:00 pm

very well could be the way it was done, but would not be efficient. pre sour mashing?
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby loneswinger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:44 pm

Why wouldn't it be efficient, not enough enzymes between the (malted?) rye and the barley to convert the corn?
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Dnderhead » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:13 pm

corn takes a lot to cook about 1 hour at 180f (83c) rye takes quite a bit less,135-147f (63-64c) then not enough enzymes, even with modern "distillers" malt
it takes 10% or more of grain bill, brewers malt use 20% or more.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:02 am

Off topic but I can't find the answer. When you start heating the still, how much heat do you apply? Maybe this is why I burnt my wash.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Dnderhead » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:48 am

that depends on whats in the still/pot and what your heat is, if it has sugar ,starches in it your going to halve to use less.
and a soft heat or flame is the best in my opinion.you can have the same BTUs with a less "force" ,this is like comparing
a blow torch to a BBQ both mite be 100,000BTUs but the BBQ is much "softer" therefor less likely to burn .also you could use a plate
under the pot. with electric id say more or larger elements but use the same power,this is to say, one 20,000w element, at
20,000 w is more likely to burn than 2 -20,000w element's putting out 20,000 w, or a 40,000w element putting out 20,000.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:24 am

Thanks, I'm using gas flame, so I'm trying to go easy, about double what it takes to maintain 172 degrees. It's a wash of 60% corn, 20% rye malt, 20% distillers malt. I racked off the ferment so it's pretty clear, like a weak lemonade. it's taken me 4 hrs to get to 140 degrees but now it's moving up faster.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:35 am

Dnderhead wrote:very well could be the way it was done, but would not be efficient. pre sour mashing?


Maybe the rye was malted? But we could use enzymes. Here is how they made it at @ Woodford Reserve. http://distilling.com/newsletters/ameri ... ler56.html
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby loneswinger » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:12 am

Burbankbrewer wrote:Thanks, I'm using gas flame, so I'm trying to go easy, about double what it takes to maintain 172 degrees. It's a wash of 60% corn, 20% rye malt, 20% distillers malt. I racked off the ferment so it's pretty clear, like a weak lemonade. it's taken me 4 hrs to get to 140 degrees but now it's moving up faster.


That sounds really slow. How big is your boiler? If it was pretty clear when you racked it then you should be able to heat it more quickly as long as there are no solids. When it first starts to boil you might want to turn down the heat some. My all grains will usually foam up and puke over the still. So much so that I have pretty much given up on single distilling anything and will double distill everything now. I don't have a thumper on my pot still.

That sounds like a lovely grain mix for a good bourbon. I have a 9 month old that was 50% corn, 30% barley, 10% Rye and 10% wheat aging on charred oak cubes. It is really delicious, but the Rye didn't really come through, so more Rye would be better I am sure. Did you get good conversion? As Dnderhead mentioned, the corn might need to cook at higher temps first to get a good conversion. I always steam cook the corn, wheat, and rye first, then cool to about 170 F and add the barley and maybe a little more cool water to get it to ~ 150 F for mashing.


I was also wondering about whether or not the Rye was malted.

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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:34 am

loneswinger wrote:
Burbankbrewer wrote:Thanks, I'm using gas flame, so I'm trying to go easy, about double what it takes to maintain 172 degrees. It's a wash of 60% corn, 20% rye malt, 20% distillers malt. I racked off the ferment so it's pretty clear, like a weak lemonade. it's taken me 4 hrs to get to 140 degrees but now it's moving up faster.


That sounds really slow. How big is your boiler? If it was pretty clear when you racked it then you should be able to heat it more quickly as long as there are no solids. When it first starts to boil you might want to turn down the heat some. My all grains will usually foam up and puke over the still. So much so that I have pretty much given up on single distilling anything and will double distill everything now. I don't have a thumper on my pot still.

That sounds like a lovely grain mix for a good bourbon. I have a 9 month old that was 50% corn, 30% barley, 10% Rye and 10% wheat aging on charred oak cubes. It is really delicious, but the Rye didn't really come through, so more Rye would be better I am sure. Did you get good conversion? As Dnderhead mentioned, the corn might need to cook at higher temps first to get a good conversion. I always steam cook the corn, wheat, and rye first, then cool to about 170 F and add the barley and maybe a little more cool water to get it to ~ 150 F for mashing.


I was also wondering about whether or not the Rye was malted.

-Loneswinger


I'm using a half barrel and Brewhaus pot still head. From reading @ homedistiller.com I now realize what I did was almost a spirit run. They say commercial distillers strip 1/3 of the volume of the wash, then do a spirit run cutting from 80% to 60%. I could get some heavy toast cubes for $15 a lb. here. I got 100% conversion cause I also used amylase and amyloglucadase enzymes. The corn was flaked. I usewd ice to cool it.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:42 am

Burbankbrewer wrote:
loneswinger wrote:
Burbankbrewer wrote: My all grains will usually foam up and puke over the still. So much so that I have pretty much given up on single distilling anything and will double distill everything now. I don't have a thumper on my pot still.

-Loneswinger


I'm using a half barrel and Brewhaus pot still head. From reading @ homedistiller.com I now realize what I did was almost a spirit run. They say commercial distillers strip 1/3 of the volume of the wash, then do a spirit run cutting from 80% to 60%. I could get some heavy toast cubes for $15 a lb. here. I got 100% conversion cause I also used amylase and amyloglucadase enzymes. The corn was flaked. I usewd ice to cool it.


I use antifoam agent, it works like a charm.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby loneswinger » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:07 pm

I also use a 1/2 barrel boiler but have never had a run take more than 1.5 hrs to bring to a boil.

What anti-foaming agent are you using and where are you getting it? I have never used any but it might be nice to have.

I aged using commercial oak cubes also and have had good results. For the whiskey I mentioned previously, I took medium toast cubes and torched them for a bit to really char them, then quenched the burning cubes in water. The resulting spirit was more recognizable as a bourbon than the medium toast by itself.

The cubes I used were about 1 cm on a side. If the ones you have are the same, you will want to use about 8 oz per 5 gallons of 60% spirit. At this concentration you can leave them indefinitely and they will not over oak. This surface to volume ratio mimics commercial casks.

6 gallon glass carboy full of whiskey is a pretty sight. I currently have 4 different whiskeys aging right now using this method (glass carboys with cubes). All are turning out nicely. I tried aging in smaller containers in the past, i.e. 1 gallon jugs and 2.5 gallon carboys, but they just are not big enough. The contents would always disappear before they had time to age.

Happy Stilling,

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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:18 pm

6 carboys full of whiskey, you are my idol.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby loneswinger » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:23 pm

Burbankbrewer wrote:6 carboys full of whiskey, you are my idol.


Thanks, but it is currently 4 - 6 gallon carboys. One is a 100% peated malt for a single malt scotch style, one is a 100% 2-row for sort of an irish without the green malt. One is a 50% corn, 50% peated malt that is kinda tasting like a good blended scotch, and one is the bourbon that I mentioned previously. It may seem like a lot to you now, but if you are anything like me, I would not recommend going with any smaller quantity than this if you want to age it for more than 1 year. All the sampling puts a big dent in the volume. By the time it starts getting some good aged taste it is all gone if in a 1 gallon container. Don't get me wrong, it is good after only a month or so, but it gets so much better after about 1 year. I have heard there is a new level of amazingness in the 5-10 year range, but have never been able to achieve this level of age. (In fairness I have only been distilling for about 3 years) Some day I hope to set some aside for the long haul, just haven't figured out a way to hide it from myself (or my "friends").

This is also the reason why I decided to build a reflux still a couple years back so I could make and drink neutral while I wait for the whiskeys to age. Turned out to be a good decision. It's so much easier to give out bottles of vodka than whiskey, the vodka has little to no personal value but still makes for good gifts and a damn good drink. Gin is good too.

My momma lives in Burbank CA if that is where you really are. She's got a couple gallons of my hooch laying around, I am trying to think of a way to get you to taste that bourbon to see if you like the oaking from the charred cubes....Don't think I want to give you her address though sorry. We will have to set up a secret drop location.

Ok I am rambling,

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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:26 am

loneswinger wrote:
Burbankbrewer wrote:6 carboys full of whiskey, you are my idol.


I am trying to think of a way to get you to taste that bourbon to see if you like the oaking from the charred cubes....

-Loneswinger


I'm not anywhere even close. Are you using the store bought heavy toast cubes from LD Carlson?
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby loneswinger » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:49 am

Burbankbrewer wrote:
loneswinger wrote:
Burbankbrewer wrote:6 carboys full of whiskey, you are my idol.


I am trying to think of a way to get you to taste that bourbon to see if you like the oaking from the charred cubes....

-Loneswinger


I'm not anywhere even close. Are you using the store bought heavy toast cubes from LD Carlson?


I ordered mine from northern brewer, I am not sure who their supplier is. http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/catalogsearch/result/?q=oak+cubes&x=0&y=0

Cheers,

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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Dnderhead » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:24 am

I thank you will have better luck with rye, if before adding malt/enzymes you let the temps drop to about 100f (38c)
for a gluten rest ,rye,wheat and raw barley, has this problem. using much of these grains will be like glue if you don't.
after 20 min bring the temps back up if you want.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby King Of Hearts » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:45 am

-Loneswinger[/quote]

I'm not anywhere even close. Are you using the store bought heavy toast cubes from LD Carlson?[/quote]

I ordered mine from northern brewer, I am not sure who their supplier is. http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/catalogsearch/result/?q=oak+cubes&x=0&y=0

Cheers,

-Loneswinger[/quote]

This looks interesting: http://www.oaksolutionsgroup.com/pages/ ... gstix.html

On the 100% rye malt I did rests at 100 for 30 mins, 126 for 15 mins, 148 for 60 mins. i only used 1 qt water per lb, I think I need 1.5 or more.
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Re: George Washington Rye Recipe

Postby Myth » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:23 pm

King Of Hearts wrote:
Dnderhead wrote:very well could be the way it was done, but would not be efficient. pre sour mashing?


Maybe the rye was malted? But we could use enzymes. Here is how they made it at @ Woodford Reserve. http://distilling.com/newsletters/ameri ... ler56.html


So the recipe reefer's to percentages, yet the instructions refer to weight. I am guessing the percentages in the recipe refer to volume?
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