Palm Sugar Rum

[fusedlight]

Well, I'm back... the original note writer.

I decided to do a BIG double-batch for Christmas. All they had at the store were the smallish flying-saucer shaped packets of sugar, none of the large cylindrical ones I used for the original batch.

** disaster **

I don't know what was in the little disks, but it kills yeast. I started out with around 12% potential alcohol. Four days later... no change at all. I made up a new batch of yeast and added some activator from my friendly local brew store. Still no luck.

I went back to the Asian market and this time they DID have some of the stuff I bought first time around. I picked up 6 pounds of that and 3 pounds of corn sugar at the brew shop. New yeast. This time it all worked. Last night I distilled off the first 3 gals and will finish up tonight with the last 2. I'm going to start one more batch of the Original Recipe fermenting later on today.

So... word to the wise... do NOT get the palm sugar that's shaped in little 4" disks.

[Prairiepiss]

What I'm starting to think is this. The stuff that is cut with sugar works better. The purer the palm sugar the more problems occur.

Did you try diluting the other batches that didn't work? Maybe dilution and add regular sugar?

What was the color profile of the two sugars? And did the bad one have the pukey smell to it? Sour taste maybe?

[HookLine]

Well into the hearts cut of my spirit run now. (Happy Xmas eve to me! )

Pretty happy with the stuff coming out.

Hard to describe, but it has a kind of warm creamy spiceyness to it that is well balanced. I really like it. Might even make a nice white dog.

Foreshots are the best smelling I have ever had, haven't been game to taste them though.

Moderate amount of heads, with a fairly light and mild smell, actually not bad at all.

Quite light overall, but that is probably because the total ferment recipe worked out to 75% raw sugar, 25% pure coconut palm sugar.

What I'm starting to think is this. The stuff that is cut with sugar works better. The purer the palm sugar the more problems occur.

My results so far certainly support that view.



More later.

[Prairiepiss]

Thanks for the update Hookline.
Thats more encouraging. The spicy notes you speak of was just way overpowering with the 100% palm sugar. Well to me anyway. But I could see where it would be better cut with sugar.

[HookLine]

Took jars up to just over 92 C (about 52% abv), last 2-3 jars are getting a little whiffy. This was at 1200 w power.

Just started running out the tails (at 2400 w), and they are pretty funky, though not all bad, can smell some good stuff in there, so will be recycling them somehow, maybe throw them in with the next rum feints run.

[HookLine]

Far as I can see, the issue is just keeping the sodium levels down low enough not to stress the yeast. Same kinda thing we do with the ferment abv.

[Prairiepiss]

If you reflux your feints. It does make a nice neutral. But it should be safe to run with your feints. I did with mine. With no notable carry over.

[HookLine]

Thanks for that PP.

••••••••••••••••

Ended up with a bit under 6 litres of 65%. Kept a bottle aside as white dog, and will oak the rest.

Lot of tails though - maybe 7-8 litres. But there seems plenty of flavour to grab out of there yet (and the heads), so will run it all through a partly detuned reflux at some stage, probably add it to a rum feints run, I think they will mix nicely.

I always find it a little hard to know when to make the tails cut on a flavoured spirit the first time you make it, so I might have been a little conservative on the tails cut, maybe could have gone a bit deeper.

The expense and high sodium levels will always limit what can be done with coconut palm sugar. But so far I am pretty happy with this one, it is good just raw out of the still*, with a character its own, and I think it has serious promise as a fine sipping liquor.

*Update a couple of hours and several drinks later: Actually, it is very good raw and fresh, with a dash of water, better than any other flavoured spirit I have made. Might even put some more aside as white dog.

••••••••••••••••

Next up is 20 kg of this cane rock sugar. Cachaça party! [where's a party icon when you need one?]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view
http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view

Will start a separate thread for that.

[HookLine]

Forgot to say...

The backset from the 2nd ferment in the cycle smelt pretty good, so I added some more raw sugar and ran a 3rd ferment. That is finishing up now, but smells fine, just a lot lighter of course. Gonna wring every drop out of this expensive mother, make it earn its keep.

Let you know how it goes.

[HookLine]

Combined the heads and tails from the first spirit run in the pot still, and the low wines from the extra sugar runs on the backset, and ran them through the column with the valve wide open, vapour temp set at about 0.5 C above the lowest setting I could get for the hearts (ie neutral).

Very nice result. Caught a big chunk of clean flavour. So good in fact I went back and sampled the spirit run from the pot still (for the first time since I ran it), and it definitely has a distinct taint of tails compared to the column stuff. Maybe I cut too late on the pot still run. But I had a lot of feints (tails) from that run, which makes me think that this spirit is just tails heavy and does not do well in a pot still, with a lot of wastage.

So, I diluted the spirit run from the pot still, and ran it through the column the same way. Same nice result as the first column run.

The stillage left behind in the boiler after the first column run (with the feints) was truly disgusting, lot of tails comes out of that recipe.

••••••••••••••••••••

Revised opinion:

Definitely a pretty nice flavour in this one, with its own unique character. It works well as fresh white dog, and I think a long sit on oak will only improve it.

To make it work:

1) For the first ferment in the cycle, keep the amount of pure coconut palm sugar to maybe 30-50% of total fermentables, depending on the sodium content of the particular brand you are using.

2) Don't add more coconut sugar to the backset for the next ferment cycle, just use plain sugars (white, raw, etc), or other low sodium sources of fermentables, to grab that remaining flavour (and there is a fair bit left to grab).

3) Keep the % abv of the ferments down to no more than about 8%.

4) Reflux it enough to leave the heavy tails load behind.

[Edit to add abv comment.]

[LWTCS]

That puts it together quite nicely Hook. Based on what has been talked about thus far I'd say your last post is a good prescription.

I wonder how well your final product would stack up against the indigenous "Lambanog ". And also wonder how well a native expert would grade your results???

[HookLine]

Cheers, L.

I'm pretty happy with it.

[HookLine]

Been sipping on this as white dog for the last few days, and comparing to a sample I kept from the pot still run. Definitely needed refluxing to get that flavour balance right and make it work.

Gave a sample to my chief taster and drinking buddy, who has tried pretty well all of my work so far, and he was very complimentary. Wanted a whole bottle to take home right then and there.

Best thing about this one is that it has a lovely natural spiciness, that it keeps even after refluxing.

Thanks to those who took one or two for the team at the start with their experiments. Made it a shipload easier for me.

[Prairiepiss]

Sounds like you have found the good stuff. I kite give it a go again one day. But I have to many other things going on. It will be down the road a bit. And thank you Hookline for taking it to the next level.

[HookLine]

Just took a sample from the ageing keg. First sample after a decent bit of oaking.

Very nice. Kept that distinct spicey note.

One of my all time favourites.

[LWTCS]

Thanks for the feed back Hook.
Also bumping this thread for Captain Juniper as he has been to areas that make spirits from this type of material.
Hoping for a contribution to further discussion.

[wtfdskin]

Found this yesterday and decided to search it on here. Was going to try it in buc bob's recipe. Package says to use as a 1:1 replacement for cane sugar. Is this the same as you're talking about?

[wtfdskin]

Grabbed some of this too. Going to try this, cane, and palm in 3 rum ferments. Same recipe just different sugars.

[Tomb]

Sorry for bringing this out of the ground....

I have a bunch of coconut sugar syrup that I want to use.

There seems to be a problem with the ferment.

I read about this sugar....

"Coconut sugar is rich in nutrients. It is especially high in potassium, and containing almost 10,300 milligrams per liter of coconut sugar. With the same measurement of milligrams per liter, there are 2,020 milligrams of nitrogen, 790 milligrams of phosphorus, 60 of calcium, 290 of magnesium, 450 of sodium, 4,700 of chlorine, 260 of sulfur and also trace amounts of boron, zinc, manganese, iron and copper."

Although the sodium does seem high the 4700 chlorine does not sound like a friendly place for yeast.
I want to try 100% coconut syrup (mainly because I was given a lot of it to see what I could make) and use a column and save a bit of the hearts before continuing with a spirit run to make coconut vodka.

Besides using a ton of yeast, I though of inverting the batch with some citric acid and heating to about 100c for an hour.
I have this syrup because it is past its date and supposedly has a bit of a tang. Hoping the inverting will give the yeast a easier job, kill any nasties in the syrup and oxidize the chlorine.

Not sure if the high potassium is a plus or minus for the yeast?

There was concern about the sodium, but 450mg does not sound high, especially since the water I will be adding in the ferment will have almost zero sodium.

Will be sure to add some tomato paste, yeast nutrient, epsomm salts and egg shells.

Any other tips to help this finish well?

T