Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

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Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

SSMSMSW? Yeah, well, something like that, I guess. And even that's too long for the easy way to make Single Malt I have in mind. Just think UJSSM or SF and you are getting there.

So, after many Bourbon style UJSSM's and as many Irish whiskeys based on oats, wheat and rye following the SF approach, I thought I wanted to try something else. Drank me some Conamarra whiskey (the Irish whiskey with the Scottish taste, grain bill and distillation method) and thought: "now, there is a fruity and nice whiskey!" Unfortunately with a lot of heads. I am after that kinda taste, but - please - without the heads present.

I bought 5 kilo's of lightly peated barley malt (or whisky malt). I guess mosts homebrew shops have got it. Around 6 ppm in peat, so light indeed. What I did was:

Put 3.7 kilo's of sugar in my fermenter;
Added 23 liters of allmost boiling water;
Stirred & melted the sugar;
Let it cool to around 80 degrees;
Added 3.7 kilo's of the peated malt (not cracked or milled, just the whole grains);
Stirring it in gave a temp of below 75 degrees and that is important, because:
When you put your grains in a (combined) wash of over 75 degrees C, tanines will start to leach out of the hulls and you don't want that;
After stirring and waiting some more, I aired the wash with an airstone;
Then (at 30 degrees C) I added 60 grams of dry baker's yeast, let it rest on top of the wash for 15 minutes and stirred it in;
Cap on fermenter, etc.

Fermentation took of like a rocket. It was pretty much dry in 3 days (SG of 1,000). Continued bubbling in a very, very slow way, but (as I learned from my UJSSM) that can be some additional fermentation of slowly converting starches. Fermentation was not only very quick, it was a very clean one too. I had my fermenter (30 liters) filled to the rim, but had no sh*t or whatever you call it on top.

I took it off and pretty much sucked the grain & yeast bed dry. Gave me 20 liters of whisky beer that I racked into my stripper to be ... well, stripped, I guess. I also put some 5 liters of fresh water in my fermenter to give the yeast the aquatic environment they need for survival.

Stripping gave me some 6 liters of 32% (so the beer must have been like 10.5% or so). I didn't make cuts. But tasting the 32% revealed more of what the beer showed as well: nice, fruity tones with a hint of peat.

I used some 7 to 8 liters of backset to melt another 3.7 kilo's of sugar, let it cool to 30 degrees C by adding more cold water and threw it in the fermenter on top of the yeast & grain bed.

Second fermentation cycle took of in minutes (in fact it had not stopped, since even the yeast & grain bed with 5 liters of water gave me an occasional burp), and seems to be going as fast as number one

When gen 2 is ready I will distill it together with the low wines of gen 1. And then it is of to gen 3 and further. I think there is some great Single Malt hidden in those low wines!

I plan to use my spend JD Oaking Chips to age them. I will soak the chips in Sherry for a week, then dry them out. That should give me a combo of Boubon & Sherry oak ageing. Pretty much like many Scottish distilleries do it.

That's it for now. No all grainer, this time, but an easy way (or so it seems to become) of making an UJSSM Scottish Single Malt Style.

Odin.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Texas Jim »

How many generations con you go before you have to change out the grain?

Do you think the 2nd, 3rd, etc, generations will have any peat to them, or was that all taken off in the first run?
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

I am curious to that. I would say: not as many as in UJSSM, but that is just gut feeling. Smelling the beer on gen 2, there is the same amount of peat for sure. Maybe even a bit more. I am guessing (but will know soon) that 3, 4 maybe 5 gens should be possible. When I get to that generation, we will know for sure and we can make better judgements on how much grain to change at every iteration.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Barney Fife »

Since you're buying malt, may as well use it to its most effectiveness.

I suggest you do the first generation as an all-grain mash, no sugar. You were already there, anyhow. Next time, just put the grain in the fermenter, and pour the hot water over them as you did, shooting for a final temp of around 65-67C, then wrap the bucket and leave it a few hours or even overnight. Check for SG(aim for around 5% ABV) and double-check the conversion, and if all looks good, pitch the yeast as usual, and watch 'er go! Strip this one when done, and set the jars aside for later. NOW, use the spent grain and backset to start a few UJSM-style sugarhead generations. But when you strip these, don't mix them up with the original all-grain! that original all-grain is your "master's special" for later ;) . After about 2-3 generations of sugarhead, you'll find the ferments have gotten slow, and there's not much flavor left, so it's time for a new start. Again, do the all-grain, strip it, and set it aside with the previous all-grain low wines. See where this is leading? You keep the all-grain strips separate, and once you have enough[usually 3 strips is enough for me, but if you have a large boiler, you can save-up as many as you can)] you can finally do a spirit run with these. This will be a very full-bodied malt whiskey! Age it carefully, and you'll cherish it for years. Save the heads and tails from the all-grain spirit run, and add these to all the other sugarhead malts. these sugarheads will also be very tasty, but much lighter in overall flavor, though the sour mashing will help bolster the flavors(but they will be very different from the all-grain). Both whiskeys will be good, but that all-grain will be the special occasion one.

I've been doing this for a long time. I just hated to toss-out all that grain after mashing, so I started making sugraheads with it. But there's no sense wasting the initial all-grain mash by adding sugar to it!! Son!
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Barney,

I know how to make it the all grain way, Barney. That is not why I posted this. I posted this to give people the easiest way to do it. UJSSM and SF bring a lot of hapinez to a lot of people. Many of which may be more into the Scottish style whisky than the American style. You don't need to mill in this recipe, you don't have to mash at exactly the right temperature and you don't have so much to clean up after you are done. Just replace a bit of grains. And it gives a higher yield, especially important for newcomers struggling with 20, maybe 30 liter fermenters. There is a reason I posted it like this and as a non all grain approach. And there is a reason why the SSM part is in the name.

Now I understand what you say, and actually made an ag bourbon and from that I went on to make an UJSSM style, so yes it can be done and is very nice to do. Maybe you should start a topic on that? I will chime in!

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Barney Fife »

As far as I understood, all threads on this forum, unless locked, are open for discussion, Odin.

At any rate, even UJSM makes use of cracked corn, for good reason. Without milling, or at least cracking your malt, you're not going to get much flavor from the grain itself; what you're getting is mostly the smoke off the hull. Those that don't have a mill can at least put the malt in a bag and take a hammer to it for a few minutes to expose some of the grain...

I'm puttin' down my keyboard here and backing away.... slowly... Don't shoot me, bud. :wave:
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by rtalbigr »

Barney Fife wrote:I'm puttin' down my keyboard here and backing away.... slowly... Don't shoot me, bud. :wave:
Seems some of the crowd here has been rather testy lately Barney, I have my head bite off a couple a times recently as well. Don't know if it's somethin in the water, new years resolution fatigue, or just the phase of the moon.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

I am sorry for sounding like a jurk! Hey, for being a jurk at that! Excuse me many times. Please step back in. Must have had my periods. Shit. A lame excuse. But sincerely: sorry for not communicating in a better way. And giving you credit for a great contribution.

Yes, I wanted totalk about simple sour mash, but your contribution is: let's make it more interesting still! The approach is very appealing. First an All Grainer and on the spent grain & yeast bed a simple sour mash. Shouldn't bite each other. People not into all grain (yet) can take it on as a simple sour mash recipe. People only into AG will leave the ssm approach out completely. People in between can try it the way you do it.

In the end we should all benefit from exchanging opinion.

I have done an AG bourbon, then made a UJSSM out of the spent grain & yeast bed. But only one extra generation. Liked the result of both AG and UJSSM, but had problems clearing the UJSSM. The malt I used was grinded pretty fine and pretty much cloaked up everything. Could clear it with difficulty. Could not easily siphon it of the grains.

Any advice there? And: could you elaborate (that is: if you want to step back in) on how you do your AG? Drain liquids from grains, ferment of the grain, use the grain to start up SSM style? Different? Understand that with fermenting on the malt, you get too many tanines over ...

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Gen 2 is supposed to be ready for days now. Took of like the rocket I know this recipe to be from gen 1. But it is still (very slowly) bubbling. Must be the grain conversion that just keeps on going, slowly, steadily. Had that with UJSSM as well. Some problems with my power manager, so I didn't want to do a spirit run on gen 1 yet. I will probably strip this wash in a few days. Should give me, together with gen 1 around 14 liters of low wines. Another gen maybe and than I think I should be looking for some new grain ...

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by sparky marky »

Odin,
Have you ever tried a 100% malted barley whisky without recycling to the next generation?
Your method is nice and easy for people with limited mashing experience, but sour mashing is not something they tend to do in Scotland so I would be curious to hear someone's opinion on the taste differences between the two methods.
A series of grain ferments is definately next on my to do list and I can get malt VERY VERY cheap!
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

As far as sugar heads go, I think you could call my first generation one without single malt backset ... I just fired up the stripper by the way. Didn't feel good to leave the wash sit longer ...

The beer from gen 1 and 2 both smelled fantastic. Maybe gen 2 had a bit more smell & taste. Low wines of gen 1 were without cuts but still pretty good at 32%. I will it with the low wines I make now from gen 2 for you.

I did not yet make an All Grain 100% malted/peated barley without sugar. Reason is that I don't have a good mill/grinder. And I need to find a way to get the grain out of the mash before fermenting. And in such a way that I can press most of the liquids out of them.

My aim, apart from trying to find a very easy way into single malt, is to see & find out how it tastes. If this is good, the All Grain version will only be better. If I don't like it, I will probably not upgrade this recipe to an all grainer.

Now, it seems to be going in the right direction, but I am still a bit worried about peat getting over. Malt is at 6 ppm only and that is like a light peated version.

Are you sure the Scottish don't sour mash? It might be under another name ... I ask this, because in reading old papers on Schiedam Old Genever making, I also find they use backset. Around 33% in general. And what was left (the lower, fuller backset) was fed to the pigs ...

Sour mashing seems not to be such an unique character treat to American whiskey only. And it makes sense, if for nothing else from the point of view of energy and ph management of wash water.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by sparky marky »

Il be interested to hear your results Odin!

Yes, it's true, scotch whisky does not normally use backset. I took a tour of dalwhinnie a few years back and production is actually very similar to beer.
They malt the barley
They mash at 65 celcius and Sparge ending up with a wort with a potential abv of about 6%
They ferment it to dryness
Then they strip it in one still collecting low wines
Then when they have enough, they run it through a DIFFERENT still for the spirit run.

The tour guide girl knew NOTHING and could not answer any of my questions but it was a good experience anyway.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by qball »

Pretty much the way they do it at Glengoyne on the Highlands/Lowlands border.

Strip pot #1, spirit pot #2, (backup spirit pot #3).

They normal distill (double).

They do not use peated barley.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Gen 2 is just coming of the still for about an hour or so. Into what mite be called hearts now. Tastes good! Sweet, mellow, tasty. So far so good.

Thanx for all the info. Yeah, they use a swann's neck for spirit run. More reflux in there. And a lot of gas/copper contact as well!

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Texas Jim »

This is an interesting video on the Springbank Distillery - he talks a little about the process. It's 3 parts, so watch them all.

http://youtu.be/ffIDf_WtKpk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by rtalbigr »

sparky marky wrote:Odin,
Have you ever tried a 100% malted barley whisky without recycling to the next generation?
Your method is nice and easy for people with limited mashing experience, but sour mashing is not something they tend to do in Scotland so I would be curious to hear someone's opinion on the taste differences between the two methods.
A series of grain ferments is definately next on my to do list and I can get malt VERY VERY cheap!
I've done some 100% malted barley. I used American 2-row Pale Ale. It's aging now. Did it in two batches, one using backset, one w/o backset. I sampled the one w/o backset and it was very nice. The one w/backset is still in my 5 gal barrel. It's been in there since September. Took a sample three weeks ago and it still need more time, at least another couple a months.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by blind drunk »

Texas Jim wrote:This is an interesting video on the Springbank Distillery - he talks a little about the process. It's 3 parts, so watch them all.

http://youtu.be/ffIDf_WtKpk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Loving them. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by jake_leg »

sparky marky wrote:Odin,
Have you ever tried a 100% malted barley whisky without recycling to the next generation?
Your method is nice and easy for people with limited mashing experience, but sour mashing is not something they tend to do in Scotland so I would be curious to hear someone's opinion on the taste differences between the two methods.
A series of grain ferments is definately next on my to do list and I can get malt VERY VERY cheap!
I did a 100% marris otter whiskey without backset. Didn't know what I was doing with the mashing and got pretty low yields, but what I got is good after 6 months on charred oak. Malt tails seemed really bitter to me so I took narrow cuts. I don't regret it, I recycled the tails into something else.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by sparky marky »

rtalbigr wrote: I've done some 100% malted barley. I used American 2-row Pale Ale. It's aging now. Did it in two batches, one using backset, one w/o backset. I sampled the one w/o backset and it was very nice. The one w/backset is still in my 5 gal barrel. It's been in there since September. Took a sample three weeks ago and it still need more time, at least another couple a months.



Was there a big flavour difference between the two? I'm thinking I might keep my first whisky pure and simple 100% malt barley, no peat, no backset. Then when I'm done give Odins sugarhead sour mash method a go for comparison.
I can get marris otter malted barley for 71p/kg (or in American money that's approx 50cents/pound) so it's about time I moved on from the rums and Gin and tried some whisky!
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by jake_leg »

sparky marky wrote:I can get marris otter malted barley for 71p/kg (or in American money that's approx 50cents/pound) so it's about time I moved on from the rums and Gin and tried some whisky!
May I ask where - are you getting some kind of special deal? I was using Worcester Hop Shop while they had their special offer on 25 kg.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by rtalbigr »

sparky marky wrote:
rtalbigr wrote: I've done some 100% malted barley. I used American 2-row Pale Ale. It's aging now. Did it in two batches, one using backset, one w/o backset. I sampled the one w/o backset and it was very nice. The one w/backset is still in my 5 gal barrel. It's been in there since September. Took a sample three weeks ago and it still need more time, at least another couple a months.



Was there a big flavour difference between the two? I'm thinking I might keep my first whisky pure and simple 100% malt barley, no peat, no backset. Then when I'm done give Odins sugarhead sour mash method a go for comparison.
I can get marris otter malted barley for 71p/kg (or in American money that's approx 50cents/pound) so it's about time I moved on from the rums and Gin and tried some whisky!
That's a great price Sparky. There is a very subtle difference in taste, but not anything really distinct. It's a good way to acidify your mash but I wouldn't go out of my way just to use the backset.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by sparky marky »

Thanks For the tip Big R! I will probably do some mashing this weekend. Iv got some old, used oak stick from all the rum so my whisky really will be authentic!!

Jake, if you know of a microbrewery in your area they are normally really nice guys that are proud of their business. If you show up at their door and appear interested they might show you their operation, sell you very cheap beer right out of fermenter and even sell you malt and hops at cost! a 25kg sack of pale malt costs them less than £18 and it's fresh from the Maltings.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by jake_leg »

Thanks for the tip. :thumbup:
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

So I just started up gen 3 of this SSM style Scottish. With 100% backset and some CC to compensate for PH. Went "all the way" backset wise, because this will be the last gen in this recipe. Beer took of after an hour, yesterday night. Still bubbling like once or twice a second. Smell is different from gen 1 and 2. Sour. Hmmm ... no big surprise there!

Good news is: my power manager is repaired! I will pick it up tomorrow and do me some spirit run!

Keep you posted,
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Jasper »

Curious as to if adding back some peated malt would keep the flavor more consistent accross batches. Maybe bring the backset down to below 170F (to avoid tannins) and steep peated malt for about 30 minutes in it. Then mix in sugar and add back to original mash. Any thoughts?? Seems to me most of the fermentable sugars are coming from the sugar itself... but a lot of the peat flavor should come through.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Hi Jasper,

I think that is what I do, no? UJSSM style. Take out some spend malt. Out of the fermenter that is. Use hot backset to melt sugar. If temp is under 75 degrees C, add some new peated malt. Let everything cool, put backset with freshly molten sugar and swolen malt into fermenter, top up to desired level with water and of goes generation x ...

If I have time (depends a bit on the mss, I am affraid), I might do my spirit run tonight. Otherwise tomorow evening. I mixed like 10 liters of 32% low wines witn 22 liters of 10% wash and put it in my boiler. That's the result of 3 consecutive runs.

We'll see how this works out!

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Jasper »

Ahhh - guess i wasn't reading closely enough. Was thinking you just pitched the peated malt directly into the fermenter rather than soaking at higher temps. My bad.
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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Yeah, to release as many taste components as possible, the malted & peated barley was put in hot water. Just under 75 degrees C to prevent tanines coming over ... New 50 liter boiler is heating up as we speak ...

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by Odin »

Update on my spirit run. Using my detuned CM column on a new 50 liters olive oil boiler. With cooling, without packing. Some 35 liters at 17% (2 strips and 1 wash combined).

Took about an hour and 15 minutes to start boiling. Before that I put power back from 2,400 Watts to 1,700 Watts. Cooling through thru tubes at max capacity of the aquarium pump I use: 450 liters per hour. No packing to spread "cold", but it does give a lot of extra reflux anyhow.

Fores & heads came out at like 83%. Took some 600 mls. Have some 100 mls of late heads that I keep. Maybe mix them in the final blend later.

First 1.75 liters of hearts also came out already. At 82%. Nice taste & smell! Expect to get some 1.5 to 1.75 liters of hearts. Rig should pretty much warn me when tails are starting: steady stream of output will start to break and slow down.

First impressions: better than the all barley I distilled yesterday. That one had a good taste (especially if you take in account that I ran into tails a bit ... too much), but this one is better, I think. Now, let's finish hearts collection, do some diluting and wait for a definitive answer to how this recipe (and my new set-up) work.

Edit:
Finished the run and did some intitial cutting. Column stayed at 82 degrees for a long, long time. Hearts were a bit on the high abv side ... 81%! Took hearts and some late tails and blended. Got me like 7 to 8 liters at 54% sitting on JD chips that were soaked on Oloroso Sherry.

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Re: Simple Sour Mash Single Malt Scottish Whisky

Post by jcrawf »

I'll be honest... i kind of doubted this recipe when I saw it. Mostly because I'm a single malt snob. Not that I buy the most expensive stuff, but because Im very particular about my scotch. I tried this recipe as an experiment and wasn't very happy with the new run product, even after it aired out for a few days. I went 3 generations deep with it, stripping each batch and doing a final spirit run.
I ended up with about a gallon of what I would call clean hearts. Since Im using a bok, I sat down to do some blending with some early tails to get a little extra flavor. What I ended up with was not really good. It was a thin smokey flavored spirit that lacked any amount of depth that I was looking for in a single malt, even after a few days of airing out. I decided their wasnt much chance of salvaging this experiment but gave it a last shot on some oak. I took 4 litres of blended product and threw in a 3" charred oak spiral. It started to take on color in a day or so and looked good. After 2 weeks I tried it and it seemed like the smoke got stronger but it was still very one demensional.
I just tried it last night( 3 weeks on oak spiral) to give it another chance and I got to tell you... ITS GREAT!! Its starting to pick up some sweetness from the oak and there's some decent depth in the flavor. I'll be tasting this on a regular basis and make sure it doesnt' pick up too much oak
I definitely had my doubts about this but I guess patience pays off. I'm not a big fan of heavily peated single malts but this is still pretty good. In fact, i told my wife tonight that i was craving the smokey flavor from that scotch. I think this will turn out great. I'm a newly converted all-grainer but I'm so impressed with the early results from this, I may try a few gens with less peat and see what I end up with.
Thanks for sharing this recipe, Odin. You came up with a great recipe. Looks like the usjm style works for more then just corn.
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