Jack Daniels Mash

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Jack Daniels Mash

Postby WhiteLightning » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:36 pm

I found a grain bill the other day for Jack's secret recipe, and decided to give it a try, and also a 'new' method for mashing.

8lbs of ground Corn
1lbs of ground Barley
1lbs of Malted Barley Powder
5 gal Bucket
1 tsp of Amylase
1 cup of White Labs High Gravity Yeast
Possibly molasses added at end to up the alc. %

Ok, now for my 'new' method. I ground up the corn and barley then added them to a 5 gal bucket along with the malt. I then boiled 3 gals of water, enough to properly fill the bucket. 4 hours later when the mash had cooled enough, after all the stirring that i'd done, I added the Amylase. I let that mixture sit overnight (bout 6-8hrs). In the morning i pitched the super yeast. Later that day the bubbles started to form, and in an hour of that I had a roaring ferment happening. Yesterday the mash ended and I racked it from its bucket. I have yet to run the mash through my pot still but when I do I'll tell all how it tasted.
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Postby Bujapat » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:33 pm

Good experience, WhiteLightning...
I use near the same grain bill, except I only use 2 lbs malted barley and no amylase... very good taste! But I'll try with amylase soon, sure.
Good luck with your distillation... let us know how it turned!
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Postby possum » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:57 pm

White labs high grav rocks. But You have to baby it a little to get the highest abv.

I think jack has a pinch of rye in it ... not alot, but some.

Good luck.
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Postby WhiteLightning » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:14 am

When I say White Labs, its true at one time the yeast I started out with probably was White Labs but now its just a pure alcohol producin Hillbilly Strain. It can eat through sugar like beaver through a log.
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Postby possum » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:57 pm

I hear that. I kept a WL strain mixed with high grav,Edinborough,new English ale, and crosby distillers.

I used that mixed strain for whiskey and rum. Good flavor development and high alcohol tolerance, and good digestion of grain derived sugars.
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Postby WhiteLightning » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:07 am

well I distilled the wash, and it was good stuff. I was working against time, because a white film started to form on the top of the racked wash. I havent run it through a second time though, but it produced a clear distilliate the first time, and had grain/fruit smell.
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Postby TheMidnightRider » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:50 pm

In regards to your 'new' method for mashing. You just boil it, wait till it cools to 155F or so and then throw in your malted grain (amylase in your case) and let it sit. This converts it all or most?

Sounds a lot better than carefully heating it up... less time consuming.

I shall try it, but how'd it work for you?


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Postby WhiteLightning » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:22 pm

it worked great, actually I also used malted grain. I got the water to boiling temp, dump it into the bucket, while the grain and malt were there, added the amylase, and top her off with cold water and cover the bucket with a top and let her sit. Shell eventually cool down, then add the yeast, and she'll continue to brew for about 7-10 days.
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Postby Aidas » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:29 am

Barley? I was always under the impression that JD and all the other Bourbon/Tennessee whiskey makers use rye as the second ingredient.

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ack

Postby Uncle Jesse » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:02 am

jack daniels is cheap swill.
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Postby WhiteLightning » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:40 am

jack daniels is not cheap swill. HRD is cheap swill. True Jack isnt the best spirit, but its far from the worst, and depending on where you live it can be cheap or expensive.
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Postby Tater » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:18 pm

ok so then J D is expensive swill. :lol:No really guys if ya put forth a little time and effort.Use right tool for job your doing. Your sorrest bourbon will make Jack plumb ashamed of himself :wink:
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agreed

Postby Uncle Jesse » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:32 pm

i cant even drink jack daniels. not even "gentleman jack" or the single barrel release. 2 or 3 shots gives me a serious headache. rather drink george dickel or something equivalent.

same with a lot of commercial alchohol, however. jose' cuervo - ack! but give me a sauza conmemorativo or tres generaciones, or a good herradurra and it's no problem. who would rather drink jim beam then woodford reserve?

these guys don't even take cuts, right? or i guess to be more correct they take a continual cut and to help ensure profitability they aren't exactly conservative.

they have continuous still setups and they rely on re-used barrels to impart some additional flavor. it's a far cry from taking your careful cuts, saving enough to fill a newly charrred oak barrel and then aging your spirit for a few years.

"charcoal filtering" can remove the evil congener smells, but it won't remove the hangovers. i've never tried to charcoal filter my whiskies because i don't want to remove any of the bouquet or flavor i'm so careful to collect by paying attention to my cuts.

nose my corn whiskey after a couple of years and it's just like butterscotch.
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Postby Rebel_Yell » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:40 pm

It ain't Jack Daniels. That's just a brand name. It is owned by Brown-Forman Beverages.

http://brown-forman.com/ They gots their paws into all kinds of drinks. Rum, bourbon, tequila, wine.....

The corporation and its investors are responsible.

They ain't hard to beat. It is not about good whiskey for them, it's about money. They are in biz to make money.

Now that grain bill and a gifted distiller.... Things gotta come out better...

It's all about quality. NOT money.

I am in control of all of the quality involved in producing my product. Oh yeah, I test it all too. :)
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Postby WhiteLightning » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:51 pm

ok, i've changed my opinion after a couple of shots and some education. and my whiskey smeels like butterscotch too, after a few years, must be doing something right. lol. Oh if you want a butternut flavor/ smell to your whiskey, add 1 can of coor's beer to ur first distillation and distill 2 more times.
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Postby Uncle Remus » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:59 pm

Ditto on JD. It is swil, expensive swil. Jim Beam is much better...but I prefer barley whiskies myself.

I totally agree with UJ and the others, with a little experience, patients, and persistance, you can make much better products than almost any commercial spirit.
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Postby Aidas » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:53 pm

Regardless of one's opinion about Jack Daniels (I haven't had any of the stuff since I started distilling -- in fact I don't drink anything but my own stuff now...), I reiterate that the aforeposted grain bill is not for Jack Daniels or for any other bourbon or tennessee whiskey.

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Postby WhiteLightning » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:34 am

it is actually the JD grain bill, but edited in some places, so it is not the "true" grain bill. I didnt have rye so i didnt use rye, and I made the grain bill smaller for a 5 gal batch. But the JD bill is on this site. check it out.
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Postby Rocky_Creek » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:42 am

Anyone believeing that list has anything to do with making Jack D. whiskey is very confused. Corn, barley, rye, 4 yeast types. Continous distill, then double, run thorough maple charcoal. Age. Some how it don't sound the same.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and them's pretty good odds.
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Postby WhiteLightning » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 am

Rocky_Creek wrote:Anyone believeing that list has anything to do with making Jack D. whiskey is very confused. Corn, barley, rye, 4 yeast types. Continous distill, then double, run thorough maple charcoal. Age. Some how it don't sound the same.


Why the hell would they use 4 yeast types, whats one yeast going to do that the others , or other cant? Its fricken distilled mash, not a micro brew.
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Postby Rocky_Creek » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:52 pm

You'll have to ask them. I've never used over 3.

But if you think that's odd, you should read about 4 roses. 10 different mash bill/yeast combinations, aged separately and blended at the end.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and them's pretty good odds.
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Postby furball » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:13 pm

Depends upon how sensitive your palate is, there are different flavor components with the different strain of yeasts.
If you look up the flavor components of whiskey you will find that the yeast impacts the flavor as much as the grain bill does.
As an experiment try making up a bulk batch of mash, then split it up into different vessels and pitch different strains of yeast. When it ferments out taste the resulting brew, and you will notice subtle differences. if you make the batches a bit bigger and then run them independantly you will see that the flavor of the distillate will also be different.
This is how the different distillers differentiate their products from one another, along with their proprietary grain bills.
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Postby Uncle Jesse » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:53 pm

the quality of a whiskey has little to do with the grain bill. slight variations will change the flavors - and for these big companies it's probably more important that some adjuncts will reduce cost as well. at any rate, a well-done mash, pot-distilled with care will produce a fine whiskey. i'm sure a jack daniels mash could produce a great product, if they were willing to take the time to do so. however, you just can't do this when your emphasis is profit, not quality. they'd have to stop their continual stills and go back to pot stills, and they'd have to use quality barrels as well.

pot stills means less production and therefore less money, and quality barrels are rather expensive.
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Re: Jack Daniels Mash

Postby nimrod77 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:57 am

1 tsp of Amylase


Pardon my ignorance but, what is amylase and where do you get it from???
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Postby stoker » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:27 am

it's an enzyme that breaks down starch

you can buy it at brew shops
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Postby ginzo » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:05 pm

WhiteLightning wrote:ok, i've changed my opinion after a couple of shots and some education. and my whiskey smeels like butterscotch too, after a few years, must be doing something right. lol. Oh if you want a butternut flavor/ smell to your whiskey, add 1 can of coor's beer to ur first distillation and distill 2 more times.


YOu add that beer to the first distillate or to the boiler before you distill the first time?
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Postby bubbabrew » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:03 am

I have a few questions about an all corn sour mash. In a simple sour mash you add corn to flavor but basically use a sugar wash. After the first run you add backset to the fermentor and add more sugar. As the shampoo bottle says rinse lather repeat. If you are using only corn and maybe some rye or barley what do you do for the fermentables in the second ferment and third etc. Do you add more corn? If so do you have to remash it before adding? Any help would be grateful
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Postby pintoshine » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:55 am

Ok I got this one.
In your shampoo terms this is the process.
1 mash pure malted corn or corn with active diastic malted barley.
2 pitch fresh yeast and ferment.
3 dump all into still except for a small amount of the lees.
4 distill.
5 mash new corn with some liquid backins.
6 pitch lees and ferment
7 go back to 3 and repeat forever or until it smells so much like crap you can't stand it.

That's about it.
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Re: grain bills

Postby partsbill » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:48 am

Uncle Jesse wrote:the quality of a whiskey has little to do with the grain bill. slight variations will change the flavors - and for these big companies it's probably more important that some adjuncts will reduce cost as well. at any rate, a well-done mash, pot-distilled with care will produce a fine whiskey. i'm sure a jack daniels mash could produce a great product, if they were willing to take the time to do so. however, you just can't do this when your emphasis is profit, not quality. they'd have to stop their continual stills and go back to pot stills, and they'd have to use quality barrels as well.

pot stills means less production and therefore less money, and quality barrels are rather expensive.


Makes sense. Question on their barrels. What do they use vs what would be better?
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Postby Rebel_Yell » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:38 am

partsbill,

JD uses new, charred, white oak barrels to age their drink.
<<<Edited>>>

Here's a read about what makes bourbon and Tennessee whiskey unique.
http://www.wildturkeybourbon.com/faq.asp

Edited I was wrong and do not want to promote misinformation
Last edited by Rebel_Yell on Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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