Apple Brandy

[Southern Boy]

Jimbo continuing our conversation here, I have a few more questions for you.

1 How many packs of Lalvin EC-1118 yeast packets are using per 12 gallons of your cider?
2 Do you use a yeast nutrient?
3 What temperature do you ferment your cider?

Jimbo I want to thank you for something you taught me here I wasn't getting threw my coconut. When you said no sugar it stumped me. I had to go read some more. I see now that adding sugar to your cider produces more ethanol. But when you add more ethanol produced by that added sugar, no more apple flavor was added, thus diluting the apple taste. I use small jars to collect anyhow, but will now collect smaller amounts of the heads to divide that flavor of late heads. I'm still a grasshopper, but I'm listening to ya.


What can I make with the apple waste that’s good, worth while?

Thanks Again,
Southern Boy

[cisco_rider]

I to have learned a lot from jimbo so thanks for that i have been distilling for 2 years but this is my first year doing brandy wont know how it came out until the end of the year but it smelled awesome even the tails smelled great but i stopped collecting at 40% i did not taste it because i heard it was foul right out of the still my wife has been asking me if i can make her a vodka or a clear alch with no flavor out of apples so that is my question here.i think this question also serves the OP

[Jimbo]

Hey guys, youre most welcome, Im happy to help. When I started, HD wasnt around and I had to learn a lot of things the painful way.

Use 1 packet per 5 gallons. 2 for that 12g batch will be fine. No nutrient is needed, no water, no sugar. Just 100% pressed apples. I ferment at 65-68F. Try not to let it go over 70 with 1118. Its a wine yeast that likes it cool. It will ferment out fine 60-70. Slower at cooler temps but if you leave it sit a month as a general rule to ferment and settle out youll be fine.

Sugar doenst just add ethanol and dilute apple flavors, it adds it own flavor. You really dont want it in your apple hooch, if you do add it, its not apple brandy, its apple shine, and it will have that shine twang to it.

yes I suppose you could make apple vodka, that'd be interesting, but its a laborious or expensive way to make a mash for vodka. 26-28 lbs of apples per bottle, why would you distill all the flavor out of it and make vodka? Ya cisco, some heads and tails are not bad in apple ferment. My cuts with apple brandy as a rule are wider than with whiskey mashes. Just taste better wider than grain based stuff.

[MyUncleMo]

You all have been helpful in my project as well.
HD has a great knowledge base and folks willing to help.
We have alot of Apples here and I hope to fine tune this process using Jimbo's shared experience.
My oak cask is on the way and I expect to age some Apple Brandy/Honey Shine as soon as it gets here.
I've kept a pint of the fresh distillate on the bar for sampling!
It proofed out to 100 using the alcoholometer. The sample of heads I set aside was at 130 proof - it got added to the batch and rounded it down.
Good luck OP with your project.

[Beerbrewer]

Hey guys, youre most welcome, Im happy to help. When I started, HD wasnt around and I had to learn a lot of things the painful way.

Use 1 packet per 5 gallons. 2 for that 12g batch will be fine. No nutrient is needed, no water, no sugar. Just 100% pressed apples. I ferment at 65-68F. Try not to let it go over 70 with 1118. Its a wine yeast that likes it cool. It will ferment out fine 60-70. Slower at cooler temps but if you leave it sit a month as a general rule to ferment and settle out youll be fine.

Have you ever tried this with apple juice in the cartons, It's the only way I make cider at the moment and I was wondering if it produced a good product once distilled?

[Bushman]

Hey guys, youre most welcome, Im happy to help. When I started, HD wasnt around and I had to learn a lot of things the painful way.

Use 1 packet per 5 gallons. 2 for that 12g batch will be fine. No nutrient is needed, no water, no sugar. Just 100% pressed apples. I ferment at 65-68F. Try not to let it go over 70 with 1118. Its a wine yeast that likes it cool. It will ferment out fine 60-70. Slower at cooler temps but if you leave it sit a month as a general rule to ferment and settle out youll be fine.

Have you ever tried this with apple juice in the cartons, It's the only way I make cider at the moment and I was wondering if it produced a good product once distilled?

I made my own apple cider, then fermented and distilled into brandy. The following thread was my first go at it.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ple+brandy

[Beerbrewer]

Thanks Bushman, I'll take a look.

[Jimbo]

Beerbrewer, I have not made apple brandy with anythign but fresh pressed apples. Cant speak to carton stuff. Store cider has preservatives, not sure the effect on quality or fermentation? Others on here have done it so i imagine it turns out fine. If you do that bu high quality stuff. Who knows what they put in the budget stuff, and if its lower quality apples the preservative level Im sure is higher etc.

Bushman, I read your thread, interesting that you made tight cuts with apple brandy, 50% vs 65-70 on other stuff and still tasted heads. Im the other way around. With ag's Im usually around 60-65% keep off my spirit run, and with apple brandy maybe 70-75% net (especially after the all feints run). I go pretty wide on the brandy and after a year on oak its warm mellow and caramelly.

[cisco_rider]

I just want say this is a sport in my opinion why not use the best and freshest product you can find I mean after all you can go to the store and buy some cabo for 20.00 a pint this is a way to paint you beliefs aka use the best you can find as I say alchahol is to be respected there is alot of work that goes into it bang bang chitty chitty

[Bushman]

Jimbo, I believe on that thread it was my first attempt and making cuts with cider rather than water gave more of an apple pie flavor rather than brandy so my last attempt was more in the range your suggesting as there is easier ways to make apple pie and I really wanted the brandy taste!

[Beerbrewer]

Beerbrewer, I have not made apple brandy with anythign but fresh pressed apples. Cant speak to carton stuff. Store cider has preservatives, not sure the effect on quality or fermentation? Others on here have done it so i imagine it turns out fine. If you do that bu high quality stuff. Who knows what they put in the budget stuff, and if its lower quality apples the preservative level Im sure is higher etc.

It's a recipe called turbo cider, the budget juice is fine and has no preservatives in it, it can leave a very dry finish but the stuff ferments with no problem, usually I add some honey or white sugar and make a 7-8% cider.

[Southern Boy]

Jimbo,

Well, I got all my apples juiced. Man did I learn a lesson on that one. I now see a grinder/press in my near future. Since this is just a small learning batch, I figured I just run it threw my juiceman juicer in a few minutes. Easier said then done, hours and hours later I have five clean gallons of cider. I cored them because I want to save the pulp for some apple shine. I didn't want the seeds and stems in my seperate shine wash. Here is my concerns and what I want your thoughts on.

Apple Brandy
I'm used to seeing a wash work like crazy in the first 24 hours. It at 70F and I can't see it doing anything. Just want to know is that normal for a slow start at lower working temp. I put one pack fresh Lavlin 1118C into the 5 gallons of clean cider no foam.


Apple Shine
Can I work this off at higher temps like 86 to 94F like other washes. I'm using a mix of Lavlin 1118C and Red Star Daddy yeast.


Thanks,
Southern Boy

[Jimbo]

No worries southern boy. It will run fine. Don't mess with it. For the shine I would not run it that hot. 70 tops with 1118. 80 with dady or bakers

[Southern Boy]

Jimbo, more questions for you.

Mix of questions for you on brandy and shine so I will split them up.

Brandy
Tell me about pulp in, and plulp free washes both in brandy and shine. If its good, bad or don't matter. Read somewhere you should work your brandy washs pulp free. I think I read it somewhere while reading about autolysis, but I can't find it again. Your thoughts on pulp.

Brandy cuts, I know you cut wide. On the tails end what AVB are you collecting to.



Shine

So I just read and learned for the first time that higher ABV ferments create off flavours.

For tasty shine, what is thought to be perfect ABV for a finished wash that the yeast was not stressed?

Is it the stressed yeast causing the off flavors in high ABV washs?

What should a starting gravity for a shine wash? 1.080 ish ? I keep thinking this is loaded question in a way

[Jimbo]

Hey SB, I hear tell apple pomace makes a good grappa after you squeeze the juice out by adding sugar water back. I havent tried it yet, I mean too every year, but by the time I have piles of it laying around Im so sick of apples. Fermenting on the pomace for apple brandy would be non traditional but that doenst mean its bad, Ill reserve opinion until someone tries it and lets us know. The cuts I make are wider than whiskey, but I dont use numbers, just nose and taste. I dont 'go into the tails' per se, (I do a little bit, for character, but not a lot) its just that I find with apple brandy the tails start later than with whiskeys, so the cut ends up wider. In other words, more % tastes good with brandy than whiskey. Does that help?

Im not a big shine guy, so really dont want to comment much here. There are folks around who have done many more runs than I, and have it dialed in. When I do sugar washes I still stick to 8%, but thats just me.

[aj2456]

my apple brandy i made is coming into its own now- used the same ferment as you guys suggest (its the way to go for cider aswell)
i used 2/3rds from juice and 1/3 from bashed cider apples and sugar(they had sod all i reckon to begin with) to make 6%

i say bashed as lacking a juicer and it being maybe 18kgs i just got a 2 by 4 and mashed em in a bucket and let the natural yeasts kick in then restained em with a half dose of campden (definately useful as alot of nasty bugs and the pulp gives em alot of scope to go bad- i hear), drained with a grain bag got 10l then repeated with more sugar to get 20l of 6-8% out of them

fermenting on the pomace with wild yeasts definately gave me all the brandy and funk/toffee flavour required

freeze distilled then ran once and got 62% for oaking

plan to do the same again next year- but hopefully have a car- 18kg of apples by bike in one go is a PITA

[Southern Boy]

Jimbo I have a few more questions I thought of.


1. First ,should you be reducing the proof down to a drinkable proof before aging on white oak "before or after"? This thought came about for a few reasons. Amout of product being charred would change as in what you said before 1x1x5" stick per quart.

2. I never knew there were more than one degree of charred white oak. To learn theres as many as three. Dark, medium or light charred white oak. So what do you reccomend for Apple Brandy. I know "time In" 6 months minium to 2 years is really nice. It would seem to a newbie that a dark charred oak would make the process a little faster and taste would be drasticly difference than say light charred oak, is the reason Im asking.

3. Is 60 proof 30% ABV a good target or what do you suggest for final drinkable product?

Thanks Again,
Southern Boy

[Jimbo]

I age it at 45-62% and drink it at 40%. Generally I age everythign at 62%, but apple brandys I often only do 1 run, and I dont get 62% off that first run, my keep varies from 45-55%depending on, well... lots of stuff I guess, sweetness of the apples on any given year, the yeast used, and just what my taste buds tell me at cutting time.

Anyway, if youre single run, just age it after making cuts. If double run water it down to 60 or so.

Light to medium char is nice for apple, the caramel/toffee flavors from the toasted and roasted oak go nice with the fruit flavors.

[S-Cackalacky]

Wouldn't normally do an apple brandy. I live in apple country, but still haven't found an affordable source for apples. When they're in season, roadside stands charge outrageous prices for both apples and apple cider. I guess I need to start networking and talking up to some orchard owners.

Anyway, I came across 2 gallons of Mussellman's cider in Walmart the other day for $1.00/gallon. The only thing it had in it besides apple juice was citric acid. I'll look around for a couple more gallons to give me a 4 gallon charge in my 5 gallon still. Once I get my cider together, will bakers yeast work for the ferment, or would it be worth my while to get some lower temp yeast (EC-1118)?

[Southern Boy]

S-Cackalacky

EC 1118 is what you want to use. Clean taste, compared to the others.

[Jimbo]

+1 to the 1118 cack. Good stuff. My fav still after 3 yeast experiment last year. Never did bakers tho with cider so who knows, could be good.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks SB and Jimbo. I'll look for some EC 1118.

[S-Cackalacky]

Well, found some EC-1118 - bought one packet for a 4 to 4.5 gallon ferment. Besides the two gallons of Musselman's, I bought 2 half gallon jugs of an off-brand at a discount store for $1.49/each. I was also given about a gallon and a half of fresh squeezed juice from a production plant. I maybe let the fresh stuff sit in my basement for a little too long and it got a little gassy and a slight off-smell. So, I dumped all 4.5 gallons into my still boiler and brought it to a boil to kill any nasties that might be in it. It's cooling down now and I'll aerate and pitch the yeast tomorrow.

Once the ferment is complete, I was thinking of running once with the thumper attached. The only wood I have is JD chips and I don't think I want to corrupt the flavor with the whiskey chips, so I'm thinking that maybe I'll just age it white. Anyway, that's the plan.

[T-Pee]

Yer gonna like it, Cack. I've been using Tree Top from Costco with EC-1118 and nothing else. Pour into fermenter, add yeast and wait.
I run it in a CM with packed column and no reflux. Runs at about 70%. Be advised a lot of the flavor is in the heads so don't just toss 'em in the feints jar.

tp

[Dan P.]

I've never used anything but the natural yeast already present on the apples. What could be better?

[Jimbo]

SC, the trace amount of whiskey in the JD chips wont corrupt the brandy. The Caramels and Vanilla in charred oak REALLY compliment the fruit in the brandy. I recommend some on oak. But not everyone likes that caramel flavor I guess? I think its why Im a whiskey drinker over most anything else. Love that rich caramelly flavor finished with that cool sensation down your throat from 90pr ethanol. Damn, making myself thirsty....

[Red Rim]

As my batch of rerun cider is finally finishing up, I think I will try a little something different. I usually add cinnamon to my thumper pot, but this time I think I will add fresh apple slices as well. The flavor from the new apples should round out the apple pie taste. Gets me a little excited, fresh apple pie in a jar!

[S-Cackalacky]

Now y'all got me thinkin' and that's usually not good. I'll be using my thumper, so I could put stuff in there for some extra flavor? Would a little apple juice and cinnamon sticks work OK? Or, maybe a little of the wash?

If I leave it white, does that make it a schnapps?

If this works out to my likin', I'll be looking extra hard next fall for a reasonably priced source of fresh cider. Or, maybe just do the Costco route. I found a discount place fairly near me that has half gallons for $1.49 - $298/gallon seems pretty cheap. The label says 100% juice with asorbic(sp?) acid (vitamin C). That seems pretty cheap compared to what Walmart charges. Never checked prices at Costco.

Is this stuff drinkable after couple of months? I would like to get a good handle on it before this Fall.

[Red Rim]

Holy smokes Cackalacky! You usually have all the good answers, not all the good questions.

Yes cinnamon sticks in the thumper would work.
I was also thinking about putting store bought hard cider in there as well.
I typically drink it unaged however, like all distillations, it gets better with time.

As for this falls apples, I wouldn't pay a dime for them. Somebody you know has apple trees so loaded up that the branches are breaking and just let them rot away. Find them!
I am not very picky about the ones I use, the ones on the ground are breaking down already. That makes them perfect.

[NZChris]

We don't have exactly the same juice here, but I can turn supermarket juice into very nice sparkling hard cider in less than two weeks. It never gets a chance to age more than a couple of months.