Rye Whiskey Mash #2

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Rye Whiskey Mash #2

Postby Johnny Reb » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:58 pm

This recipe has been edited from previous recipe posted

Rye Whiskey Mash #2:

70% Rye, 20% Barley, 10% Malt.


INGREDIENTS:

7 Lbs. Unmalted Rye
2 Lbs. Roasted Barley 2 row
1 Lbs. Dry Malt
water to 6 gallons
3 tsp Distillers Yeast
Approx 10 to 12 Pounds Granulated Sugar

*If you only have a pot that is less the 8 gallons then use it and add water to the primary fermentor after heating ingrediants*

Heat water to 90 F and then mix in malt and grain.

While stirring the mixture slowly heat to 160 F

Keep mixture at 160 F stirring constantly for 2-3 hours to convert starch into fermentable sugar and dextrin.

Filter off liquid and place into ferment bucket

Carefully add sugar to hot liquid and disolve sugar

Use a hydrometer to check SG

(You want the wash to get between 14 to 16% abv when fermentation is complete)

Allow liguid to cool to 70- 80 F before adding 3 tsp Distillers Yeast.

Stir liquid for 1 minute and keep covered (clean cloth will work).

Mash will normally take approx 5-7 days to ferment but can take up to 2 to 3 weeks

After fermentation is complete pour wash into still filtering through a paint strainer or a pillow case or any type of filter that can remove any remaining solids.

** This is the basics for this recipe. You can make it as simple as you want or complex as you want like useing Iodine to test to see if the starches have been converted to sugars, adding yeast neutraints etc etc etc **
Last edited by Johnny Reb on Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby mtnwalker2 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:13 pm

Hey Johnny Reb,

I have a bag of rye berries, and a bag of barley. It doesn't say whether 2 or 6 row, though i think its the latter. Does it make a diff. is one better than the other here?

Some malt comeing soon and will give this a try. Do you run again with setback, or just go with the sweet? Strip, save and rerun several?

Thanks. I like Rye.
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Postby DestructoMutt » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:18 pm

if i use malted rye and malted barley do i still need the malt?

can i cut the steep time if i use dextrin malt barley? what kind of specific gravity are you shooting for? do i need to check the ph of the mash before pitching the yeast? do you do an iodine test to confirm conversion?

also, can i ferment this on the grain?
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Postby Aidas » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm

DestrutoMutt wrote:if i use malted rye and malted barley do i still need the malt?

can i cut the steep time if i use dextrin malt barley? what kind of specific gravity are you shooting for? do i need to check the ph of the mash before pitching the yeast? do you do an iodine test to confirm conversion?

also, can i ferment this on the grain?


Malted rye = malt. Malted barley = malt. If you're going to be using just malted grains, you will be making malt whiskey. If you use just malted rye, you'll be doing a single-malt rye whiskey, or with barley - single malt barley whiskey (just like the scots do).

I don't bother checking the PH. IOdine test is a must. If you're planning on adding sugar, don't add more than an SG for 10-12 percent.

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Postby Johnny Reb » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:52 am

mtnwalker2 wrote:Hey Johnny Reb,

I have a bag of rye berries, and a bag of barley. It doesn't say whether 2 or 6 row, though i think its the latter. Does it make a diff. is one better than the other here?

Some malt comeing soon and will give this a try. Do you run again with setback, or just go with the sweet? Strip, save and rerun several?

Thanks. I like Rye.


There is a slight difference in taste in 2 and 6 row. Its a matter of your taste.

2-row Brewers Malt yields a slightly higher extract than 6-row Brewers Malt.

2-row Brewers Malt tends to give a smoother, less grainy flavored beer.
Some brewers claim they can detect a significant difference in flavor.

2-row Brewers Malt tends to have a lower protein and will yield a lower color than 6-row Brewers Malt.

I have done a sweet using 2 row domestic (american) and it turned out good.

I am working a sweet rye now that I am going to turn into a sour rye using 33% backset. Tommorrow I might be able to run the sweet as the SG is down to 1.010 as of yesterday and is dropping at a rate of about .015 per day

I would sugguest you save the sweet for now and run a sour and see what you like the most. If you like sweet then stay with it. If you like the sour then you can always add the sweet into the sour when your ready to make another run

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Postby Johnny Reb » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:23 am

Aidas wrote:
DestrutoMutt wrote:if i use malted rye and malted barley do i still need the malt?

can i cut the steep time if i use dextrin malt barley? what kind of specific gravity are you shooting for? do i need to check the ph of the mash before pitching the yeast? do you do an iodine test to confirm conversion?

also, can i ferment this on the grain?


Malted rye = malt. Malted barley = malt. If you're going to be using just malted grains, you will be making malt whiskey. If you use just malted rye, you'll be doing a single-malt rye whiskey, or with barley - single malt barley whiskey (just like the scots do).

I don't bother checking the PH. IOdine test is a must. If you're planning on adding sugar, don't add more than an SG for 10-12 percent.

Aidas


Thanks Aidas,

I could not have said it better.

I did not use a malted Rye.

You can ferment on the grain but it could take a bit longer to ferment.

I am doing quite a few different recipes till I find what I like to drink and one of them is a 100% Rye (non malted) on the grain.

My friends this Christmas will enjoy the runs I dont like 8)

I useually shoot for around 12 to 14% Alch

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Postby DestructoMutt » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:08 pm

my question was more about - which of the listed grains is malted? the 1 lb of malt listed does not have enough enzymes to do any conversion on the other grains. are the rye and barley malted? and what grain is malted to get the 1 lb of malt? corn malt? wheat malt? rye malt? barley malt? ??? chocolate malted shake?

unless you're doing a UJSM type of mash?
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:36 am

DestrutoMutt wrote:my question was more about - which of the listed grains is malted? the 1 lb of malt listed does not have enough enzymes to do any conversion on the other grains. are the rye and barley malted?

No

and what grain is malted to get the 1 lb of malt? corn malt? wheat malt? rye malt? barley malt? ??? chocolate malted shake?

None here is a link to the malt http://www.heartshomebrew.com/home_brew ... 4864.11855 look up item 1009

unless you're doing a UJSM type of mash?


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Postby Tater » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:32 am

Johnny Reb wrote:
DestrutoMutt wrote:my question was more about - which of the listed grains is malted? the 1 lb of malt listed does not have enough enzymes to do any conversion on the other grains. are the rye and barley malted?

No

and what grain is malted to get the 1 lb of malt? corn malt? wheat malt? rye malt? barley malt? ??? chocolate malted shake?

None here is a link to the malt http://www.heartshomebrew.com/home_brew ... 4864.11855 look up item 1009

unless you're doing a UJSM type of mash?


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Tell me Johnny Reb how many time youve made this recipe? And how much end product did ya get?
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:29 am

tater wrote:Tell me Johnny Reb how many time youve made this recipe? And how much end product did ya get?


I made it 1 time and got just a little over 1 gallon

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Postby Tater » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:40 am

Johnny Reb wrote:
tater wrote:Tell me Johnny Reb how many time youve made this recipe? And how much end product did ya get?


I made it 1 time and got just a little over 1 gallon

Johnny Reb
10 lbs grain bill and got little over a gallon.-Interesting -Malt ya showed looks like a malt thats been converted and wont convert anything else.Even if it did With 9 lbs grain that if converted wouldn't be 5 lbs sugar and yet ya get little over gallon likker .Bullshit
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:05 am

tater wrote:
Johnny Reb wrote:
tater wrote:Tell me Johnny Reb how many time youve made this recipe? And how much end product did ya get?


I made it 1 time and got just a little over 1 gallon

Johnny Reb
10 lbs grain bill and got little over a gallon.Interesting malt ya showed looks like a malt thats been converted and wont convert anything else.With 9 lbs grain that if converted wouldn't be 5 lbs sugar and yet ya get little over gallon likker .BULLSHIT


I re-read your question and passed over the END part in it the first time.

I was on the phone talking to a friend that got some UJSM from me and he was tellin me how much he liked it

I got a gallon + 100ml. I kept around 1600ml (52% abv) and thru the rest into a 5 gallon sugar wash.

I did a long slow run and stopped when the drops started getting cloudy

My yield vs. the cost involved wont allow me to do a 2nd batch.

I rang the gooses neck on this run and to me the cost for 1600ml was not worth it.

I will never do an all grain wash again.

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Postby cannon.co.tn » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:31 am

If you got 100% efficiency and the "malt" in the recipe is actually 6-row base malt My beer calculator says you should get about 43 ounces of ETOH. Hard to believe you collected a gallon.
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Postby oakie » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:50 pm

I agree. I just don't see how thats possible. I mean with out adding enzymes or sugar you are only going to get a beer with about 4 1/2% abv at best from your wash and then only end up with about half a gallon of 40% abv whiskey. (again about the highest yeild you are gone get in this case)
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:01 pm

I am red faced on this one :oops:

After confronting a friend who also owns a still and asking a few probing questions I got a true answer from him.

I was helping him at the time to make this recipe which came from somewhere I found on the net.

During the time he was cooking the wash I was sent off to the home brew store to get distillers yeast (closer then me running home and getting some) because the original recipe called for 3 grams yeast and my friend had none.

While I was away he told me he added sugar to the wash. I asked him how much because of the questions being asked here and he told me that he was unsure cause he dumped it from a container and thinks it was right around 8 pounds and the total volume of the wash was right around 5.5 gallons. He said he did not think it was a big deal at the time to tell me that he added sugar (It was his wash)

About 12 days later when it was time to do the run he already had the still set up by the time I arrived to help him.

I was part of the making and the run but not in 100% control of it. :oops:

The figures I gave about the yield was from trying to remember about the run. :?

In this forum topic I also stated that "I am doing quite a few different recipes till I find what I like to drink and one of them is a 100% Rye (non malted) on the grain." That is a true statement and if it turns out good nuff to drink I will be making a few more of them.

I posted the 70% Rye, 20% Barley, 10% Malt recipe since the little bit of whiskey I tasted was actually quite good but not low enough in cost for me to do due to the yield.

I apologize due to the fact that I posted a recipe that I found searching the net that I was not in 100% control of making and running.

I guess that the next time (if I ever post a recipe again) that I will have to start it with "I personally made this" or "I helped make this" or "I watched this being made"

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Postby junkyard dawg » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:06 pm

I will never do an all grain wash again.


:shock:

wtf?

don't say things you may regret....
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:51 pm

junkyard dawg wrote:
I will never do an all grain wash again.


:shock:

wtf?

don't say things you may regret....


LOL. I should have re-worded this to "I will never do an all grain wash again without sugar"

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Postby mtnwalker2 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:57 pm

An honest apology and mistake.

After my first few attempts of all grain, I also had the discouragement of the low yeild vs. the sugar washes.

thank God, I perservered. I am so happy just makeing a taste that I like, and sometimes totally different from something else of the norm. Most of the fun is creating something new and better than just the commercial common. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of excellent whiskey's out there, and I enjoy them. I am still learning to adjust my own creations to make what I like the best. Its a challange I will spend the rest of my life trying to achieve.

I will enjoy every sip along the way. I try to learn from every mistake I make, and that teaches me more than every success. I remember it longer, and make better judgements later.

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Postby bronzdragon » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:00 pm

Buy grain by the 50# bag. It will reduce your price per pound by a lot.

When you open the bag, just repackage the grain in smaller bags pre-weighed out, so you can just grab a bag and use it in your recipe.

Buying it by the bag can reduce your prices by 1/2, if you live near a store that will order it in for you (and not have to pay shipping.)

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Postby mtnwalker2 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:28 pm

bronzdragon wrote:Buy grain by the 50# bag. It will reduce your price per pound by a lot.

When you open the bag, just repackage the grain in smaller bags pre-weighed out, so you can just grab a bag and use it in your recipe.

Buying it by the bag can reduce your prices by 1/2, if you live near a store that will order it in for you (and not have to pay shipping.)

~r~

I am such an idiot, I hadn't thouoght of this. I have so many bags of grain, some of them quite expensive, as i am trying the grain taste now. Have been much worried, but also was worried that since they were so new and live, sealed in zip lock bags or such they might mold or degrade. Could they be measured and sealed and frozen without loss of quality. I like the idea, but dpn't want to lose any viability. Can I just seal them up airtight, put in dark and cool place for several months without loss? About 300# grain awaitint the fermenters and my experiments.

I have chickens, and need to feed them anyhow, so i like to give them and myself a treat. Makes for great eggs. Poor Rooster hasn't a clue.
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Postby Johnny Reb » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:10 pm

mtnwalker2 wrote:An honest apology and mistake.

I try to learn from every mistake I make, and that teaches me more than every success. I remember it longer, and make better judgements later.

mtnwalker


Many Thanks :)

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Postby bronzdragon » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:34 am

Personally, I just buy the 50# bags and then bust it open when I'm making a batch. Then I repackage the rest in 5# increments in gallon freezer ziplocks.

At 300#, that's a lot ... but I don't keep nearly that much around. But yes, if it was repackaged in freezer bags or I have a friend that uses one of those vacuum sealers ... and then put into the freezer, it would greatly lengthen the life of the grain.

Another thought is to seal the grain in some type of food grade bag and then put the bag inside of another airtight container ... such as a clean trash can with a good tight lid.

cheers
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Postby theholymackerel » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:58 am

Johnny Reb wrote: "I will never do an all grain wash again without sugar" Johnny Reb


That's an oxymoron, and yer misusin' terms.

First of all a "wash" is sugar based. A "mash" is made from grains.

Secondly how can yer "wash" (actually a grain mash) be "all grain" if it contains sugar.

And lastly if it has sugar in it it's not whisk(e)y.










Johnny... we are all happy that yer excited about yer brand-new adventure in distillin', but stop spreadin' bad info. At worst yer just makin' stuff up, and at best yer still really confused.

Take a deep breath...calm down...slow down and try and teach yerself before ya try and teach others. Yer diseminatin' a crap-load of bad info, and that's bad for the hobby.

Very soon you'll know more about distillation than 999 people outta 1000. Read, read, read, as so many folks say around here. You definately have the drive and motivation. You'll know what yer doin' soon, with a bit of experience, and then please do teach and help folks, but right now yer not helpin'...yer spreadin' bad info.
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Postby Johnny Reb » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:35 pm

Uncle Jessie,

I must say hats off to ya for ya knowledge and experience and hope that lisence gets to ya with God's speed.

theholymackerel wrote:
Johnny Reb wrote: "I will never do an all grain wash again without sugar" Johnny Reb


That's an oxymoron, and yer misusin' terms.

First of all a "wash" is sugar based. A "mash" is made from grains.

Secondly how can yer "wash" (actually a grain mash) be "all grain" if it contains sugar.

And lastly if it has sugar in it it's not whisk(e)y.










Johnny... we are all happy that yer excited about yer brand-new adventure in distillin', but stop spreadin' bad info. At worst yer just makin' stuff up, and at best yer still really confused.

Take a deep breath...calm down...slow down and try and teach yerself before ya try and teach others. Yer diseminatin' a crap-load of bad info, and that's bad for the hobby.

Very soon you'll know more about distillation than 999 people outta 1000. Read, read, read, as so many folks say around here. You definately have the drive and motivation. You'll know what yer doin' soon, with a bit of experience, and then please do teach and help folks, but right now yer not helpin'...yer spreadin' bad info.


Well then the best way I know to solve this is to stop postin all togeather and to move away from this site cause of most of the answers to questions posted is search and read the forum. I think I can search and read somewhere else without having to be told to do so.

I remember being told a dumb question is one not asked.

I remember being told if you dont know the answer then the question is not dumb.

But to get a search and read the forum reply when someone asks a question to me is dumb, Especially from users and forum moderators.

Give a short answer to the question and point the person in the right direction.

There is too many users here who would rather talk down to someone then offer them advice or give them a hand up.

I might give bad advice by accident thinking I knew the correct answer but atleast I tried to help the person and not sent them on a 100 hour search and read mission.

No need to reply to this cause after I hit the submit button to this post I DO NOT PLAN ON COMING BACK
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Postby pintoshine » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:34 pm

Finally...
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Postby blanikdog » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:46 pm

Johnny Reb wrote:There is too many users here who would rather talk down to someone then offer them advice or give them a hand up.



Funny thing is that I have never experienced this, but I have to admit that I did READ, READ, READ and READ some more before I even asked a question let alone give advice. Even now, I hesitate prior to posting advice.

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Postby Aidas » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:37 am

Johnny Reb wrote:I might give bad advice by accident thinking I knew the correct answer but atleast I tried to help the person and not sent them on a 100 hour search and read mission.

No need to reply to this cause after I hit the submit button to this post I DO NOT PLAN ON COMING BACK


Hmmmm... that sounds a lot like telling a bomb-squad member "Cut the red wire. I think..."

Johnny (and I think you'll be back, just to see what sort of reaction your last post brings on),

Bad advice is not just worthless and time-wasting, it can potentially hurt people. Physically at worst, or wasting their valuable time at best.

Your angry reaction to any form of criticism or correction shows that you're simply too young or too volatile to contribute constructively to the forum.

I hope that when you calm down, count to a 1000, you'll realize that all the advice and criticism that has been aimed at you has been good-natured, constructive, and correct. When you understand that -- come back.

Best,

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Postby punkin » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:50 am

blanikdog wrote:
Johnny Reb wrote:There is too many users here who would rather talk down to someone then offer them advice or give them a hand up.



Funny thing is that I have never experienced this, but I have to admit that I did READ, READ, READ and READ some more before I even asked a question let alone give advice. Even now, I hesitate prior to posting advice.

blanik


Johnnies right, in a way. This is the only forum i've been to where people are told to not ask basic questions that have answers on the board already.
It's also the only one i visit that'd rather have people dragging a two year old thread up and continuing it, than start a new one on the same topic.

But i figured these couple of idiosyncrasies out the first time i visited. I accept that's what people here want, and i'm prepared to work round it. The price of admission is well worth the reward.
The idea of doing a few runs first before posting eliminated 90% of the questions i had, and helped me to figure out answers to some of the others by myself. Uncle Jessie put it very well in another thread where he asked board members to 'respect our wishes'.

The problem here though arises from answers, not questions. :oops:

There is something fundamentally wrong when a forum starts disseminating agreed (or not confronted) information as fact. I've seen it elsewhere that people regurgitate forum folklore as undeniable experience. It's frustrating, and makes it hard to get to the bottom of any question that's at all related. It's agreed here with plastics, OK, if you wanna ask about it and argue the point, do it elsewhere. Fine.
But it'd be a shame to see people give advice on a whole raft of issues by merely reguritating forum folklore and repeating what they've read elsewhere.

That's why i think Blaniks answer here is pertinant. There's some questions here that i know the answer to, too, but i try to refrain from answering them unless my experience is definative.
After all, i haven't been here long enough to cast a shadow yet :wink: :lol:
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Postby Aidas » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:45 pm

punkin wrote:
This is the only forum i've been to where people are told to not ask basic questions that have answers on the board already.
It's also the only one i visit that'd rather have people dragging a two year old thread up and continuing it, than start a new one on the same topic.

But i figured these couple of idiosyncrasies out the first time i visited. I accept that's what people here want, and i'm prepared to work round it. The price of admission is well worth the reward.


Perhaps these are fundamental reasons (among others) that this forum manages to be the best, i.e. it keeps developing the art, rather than simply rehashing the same things over and over.

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Postby punkin » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:30 am

Perhaps you're correct. :lol:
punkin
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