First attempt at "all grain"

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DUDA
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First attempt at "all grain"

Post by DUDA »

i went out to my local home brew shop and picked up a few things:
1 lb of flaked rye
1lb flaked oats
2 lb of malted barley
and some distillers yeast
set me back $17
i went home and mixed a gal of water with 4 lbs of cracked corn and simmered that for awhile and it got kinda soupy then i turned off the stove and let it sit and added 1/2 lb of rye and 1/2 lb oats. It was very thick and starchy. my temp was about 140F and i added a pound of malted barley and stirred it. i kept it at 140F for almost 2 hours and then went to bed and let it sit over night. the next afternoon it was more liquidy and i added it to a fermenter and added 3 gal of water. i took my SG and it said about 10% potential so i think i did okay can any one point out anything i should change for next time? i then added 4lbs of sugar to a gal of water and dissolved it. added to the bucket (why i said "all grain" cause its not really) and then toped off the fermenter to about 4.5 gal my SG was around 1.050 and pitched 8 grams of distillers yeast (i made a yeast starter) one other thing when i added to the fermenter the next day (about 20 hours later) it had sat out all day and kinda smelled odd. any reason for this? i figured natural yeast would have died.
I'm going to post the FG and tell you how it turns out when i run it !! I'm excited never done anything like this

any feed back would be appreciated :D
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Truckinbutch
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Truckinbutch »

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Swedish Pride
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Swedish Pride »

quite an expensive HBS in my opinion, would have cost me half if I went to the local one here.
you're temps are a bit off and you would have gotten more out of the grains if you grinded them up much finer but you seem to have done ok regardless.
is the distillers yeast a turbo yeast?
Never had any yeast smell bad after sitting out, I've only used bakers and us05 though.

sounds like it will make a typical bourbon
good luck with it
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Still Life
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Still Life »

For your first you didn't do too bad.
Your malt addition would be more efficient at about 153°F rather than 140°
And maybe about 50 grams of yeast ---but you'll see plenty of opinions on yeast amount

While the addition of sugar negated the all-grain status, it pretty much guarantees a ferment, even at a slightly low 1.050
I'm assuming distiller's yeast was D.A.D.Y. and not turbo. Veer away from turbo for a cleaner wash.

Read up on some other recipes, and mimic temperatures and amounts. You can't go wrong with proven methods.

All in all you did OK, and you will improve.
Let us know how it turns out.

We all had to start somewhere.
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der wo
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by der wo »

Still Life wrote:Your malt addition would be more efficient at about 153°F rather than 140°
Did you try it once?
Sorry, that I have to post this again and again every few weeks. I can imagine, some members here roll their eyes every time.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... of_Mashing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Beta_amylase_activity.gif
At 153F/67°C half of the beta amylase is dead after 10min. All is dead after 30min.
At 140F/60°C the beta amylase will have much more time.
At 130F/54°C or lower the fun starts. The beta amylase will work even after mashing.
The problem is, at 130F the alpha amylase is slow and the gelatinizing isn't complete. So most effective is mashing, if you manage to gelatinize and cut the starches a bit down at high temps and then add beta amylase at temps it can survive. Adding malt at different temps and the last portion at a very low temp is the key to a low FG with little malt content in the grain bill and without adding enzymes.
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bilgriss
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by bilgriss »

:crazy:
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Still Life
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Still Life »

Thanks Der Wo.
Picked that up somewhere here.
Will amend my notes.
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der wo
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by der wo »

+1 bilgriss,
but I meaned :roll: , not :crazy:
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by DUDA »

even thought this learning experience was perfect, it fermented out, i let it clear and ran it. It was pretty good white, I'm aging some over toasted oak chips too. i left all the grain in the bucket and siphoned it off when i ran it. i then did something similar to UJ, I took my backset (about 1.5 or 2 gal) dissolved white sugar. I topped with water (i dissolved sugar then added back to bucket with grain and added water) The SG was 1.070 the second time around, i let it sit these last 2 days and now its working hard. i post how generation 2 turns out.
does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
thanks -duda
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Re: First attempt at

Post by Hank Reardon »

As far as your original post goes, I'm wondering how much liquid you had after you put 6lbs of grain into 1 gallon of water. That ratio sounds more like a recipe for cement than it does a recipe for a ferment. You can find plenty of discussions regarding grain ratios to water. An easy starting point is 2# to the gallon.

My second thought is more of a question. Why did you add sugar to a 1.080OG (10%) all grain mash?

My third thought is just my feeble brain working through the data you gave in your post.

You cooked 6 lbs of grain in 1 gallon of water.
You added 3 gallons of water to that mixture when you dumped it into your fermenter and got somewhere around 1.08 SG.
You then dissolved 4lbs of sugar into 1 gallon of water, and added that to your fermenter. SG of that would be somewhere in the off the chart range.
You dump that gallon+ solution into your fermenter and top off to 4.5 gallons. Your new gravity is 1.05.

I'm not an expert in math, but I think you likely have more than 4.5 gallons in your fermenter before you added sugar water. The sugar you did add (4 lbs to 1 gallon of water) would not have dropped your gravity from a 1.08 to a 1.05. Unless your total added water to your fermenter is more than double what you mention. (Topped off to 4.5 gallons)

So, I'm confused about your post. Not sure if you left out a few things.

Maybe you can answer these:

1. How large is your fermenter?
2. What was the peak temperature of your mash, and how long were you there?
3. Are you certain that you put 6 lbs of grain in 1 gallon of water and had it turn out "liquidy"?
4. Did you add 4 cups of sugar to a gallon of water, or 4 lbs?
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Hank Reardon »

My previously diagnosed paranoia may be playing tricks on me, but this thread seems like another manifestation of a mythical cave dwelling creature.
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skow69
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by skow69 »

I'm with Hank. None of the numbers add up and 6 lbs of grain in a gallon of water would barely be submerged.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by DUDA »

I apologize i must not have taken good notes or accurate notes on what i did. and i don't have a very large pot and i dint soak my grain before hand. i put about a gallon of water in a pot. i don't know how big it is maybe 2 gallons. and then i added my grain and it swelled up like cement like you said and i added my malt and it made it less thick. I'm not sure what my max temperature was i only had a meat thermometer and i used that. I ferment in 5 gallon food grade buckets but i leave room at the top so you're right its probably four and a half a gallon. and i should have strained my liquid or something when i took a SG reading because i had some grain in my tube that hold my hydrometer possibly throwing it off. and i added 4 or 5 pounds of sugar. looking back my measure meant were not very accurate. this was my first attempt at this. i have Pugi's rum fermenting right now, i used a yeast bomb following his recipe closely i didn't have the fertilizer and it didn't work off as fast as he said but its about done i need to find time to run it and i also have a birdwatchers sugar wash fermenting right now too. i followed both their recipes closely and i will stick to UJSSM until i have a better understanding of mashing grains. i need to 1. get a bigger pot, 2. get a better thermometer, 3. get mash tub or cooler to hold the mash at temp. and lastly i need take better notes of what i do, how i do it. again i apologize I'm trying to learn. when i try this again I'm going to follow makers mark grain bill closely. 70% corn 16%malted barley and 14% red wheat. i have all the grain but i don't wanna waste it not knowing what I'm doing. and like you had said before 6lbs of grain in a gallon of water. you are correct, my pot was filled to the brim i could barley stir without spilling and it had the consistence of the oatmeal i had for breakfast the day.
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by DUDA »

so after looking at some other pages, would this be the way to do it?

is this okay for a 5 (4.5 ) gallon batch?
soak my corn over night in a larger pot lets say 2 lbs corn in 3 gallons of water
then cook at ~190F for an hour or so
cool to 150F and add my wheat and barley 3/4 of a pound of each
cook that for 2 hours (at 150F)
put in a cooler to keep the temp for a couple hours and top it with 150F water to 4.5 gallons
when it cools to 80F take a SG reading and if it is low take some of the liquid off and add to stock pot and dissolve sugar to bring the SG up and when its back to 80F pitch my yeast.

is there somewhere on the main page that i can calculate how much grain and malted grain i need to get a X.0X0 SG in a X gallon batch?
again thank you I'm new to this and just trying to figure it out.

P.S. I'm excited to run Pugi's rum and try it! I'm gonna follow his instructions to a T.
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Truckinbutch »

:wave: Take heart :) We all had to start somewhere and we did . Just like you . A poster here that tells you he/she never made a mistake is simply a blatant liar .
We all make mistakes and most of the community here are willing to help as long as you are willing to help yourself .
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Truckinbutch
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Truckinbutch »

DUDA wrote:so after looking at some other pages, would this be the way to do it?

is this okay for a 5 (4.5 ) gallon batch?
soak my corn over night in a larger pot lets say 2 lbs corn in 3 gallons of water
then cook at ~190F for an hour or so
cool to 150F and add my wheat and barley 3/4 of a pound of each
cook that for 2 hours (at 150F)
put in a cooler to keep the temp for a couple hours and top it with 150F water to 4.5 gallons
when it cools to 80F take a SG reading and if it is low take some of the liquid off and add to stock pot and dissolve sugar to bring the SG up and when its back to 80F pitch my yeast.

is there somewhere on the main page that i can calculate how much grain and malted grain i need to get a X.0X0 SG in a X gallon batch?
again thank you I'm new to this and just trying to figure it out.

P.S. I'm excited to run Pugi's rum and try it! I'm gonna follow his instructions to a T.
Yes , every question you have is answered here many times . It is a matter of reading until your eyes bleed . Rest your eyes and then read some more .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
DUDA
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by DUDA »

thank you i have a lot of reading to do. id like to get really good at this because i am currently a chemical engineering student at Youngstown state university and i was to get my undergrad in CE and then go to graduate school to get a masters in brewing and distilling and then come up with my own recipe and eventually one day open distillery. (thats the dream, we'll see how it goes) but again thank you for the input, ill do my research and keep trying until i get it right.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: First attempt at "all grain"

Post by Truckinbutch »

DUDA wrote:thank you i have a lot of reading to do. id like to get really good at this because i am currently a chemical engineering student at Youngstown state university and i was to get my undergrad in CE and then go to graduate school to get a masters in brewing and distilling and then come up with my own recipe and eventually one day open distillery. (thats the dream, we'll see how it goes) but again thank you for the input, ill do my research and keep trying until i get it right.
Dreams never die ........ Only the dreamers . Good luck on your quest . A butt load of college degrees means nothing if you didn't learn anything while you were getting them .
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Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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