Input Requested: Using Oats as Mashbill's Malt

[ElCubanazo]

Hello all!

I've been reading on the forums about how oat has an interesting taste and wanted to try using it as my malt in my first mashbill. I've been distilling rum for some time and just wanna give this mashbill a whirl as my first whiskey. First I just wanna run this mashbill by the community to see what y'all think but more importantly I wanted to get the temps right on mashing for these grains and the enzymes!

Mashbill:
60% Flaked Rye, 20% Flaked Corn, 20% Malted Oats

Thanks, y'all!

[bluefish_dist]

Sounds like a good glue recipe. Make sure you use enzymes to thin it out. I recently did an oat bourbon with 15% oats, 55 corn and 30 barley and stuck the sparge. Can't imagine adding that much rye without causing some issues.

I would try a more barley based mash bill to start, so you can test how it works. Then move to tougher mash bills.

[ElCubanazo]

Sounds like a good glue recipe. Make sure you use enzymes to thin it out. I recently did an oat bourbon with 15% oats, 55 corn and 30 barley and stuck the sparge. Can't imagine adding that much rye without causing some issues.

I would try a more barley based mash bill to start, so you can test how it works. Then move to tougher mash bills.

Yeah I figured it gumming up might be an issue. So either add additional malt from outside source or just start with malted barley?

[Single Malt Yinzer]

Malted Oats are low on DP. You won't get a good conversion. You'll need to use enzymes or try to swap around with 10-20% or so of barley malt to bring up the DP.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Are you using liquid enzymes? Otherwise, you are going to have an issue with 2 things.

1) I don't think there is enough enzyme power to convert the starch. They claim oat has zero diastatic power, but I don't believe that. I would be willing to try 50% oat malt to adjuncts, but that would be the minimum, and it would be experimental. I feel the same about rye malt, so if it were me I would replace half of your rye percentage with rye malt, and consider that a sensible grain bill. But that leads me to my second concern...

2) How you gonna cook it? If you ain't using steam, or a rye enzyme, you ain't going to have a good time. This is going to be a milkshake in a bucket, at an optimistic stance. With all that rye and oat, god bless ya. I'm all for creativity, but know your beast. This is an expert level grain bill, so just be aware.

Will probably be deliciously wonderful in the end, though.

Edit* Posted same time as my buddy up there

Edit again.* didn't see blue fish either. This is the problem with being long winded. . I get interrupted allot in life, too.

[ElCubanazo]

Are you using liquid enzymes? Otherwise, you are going to have an issue with 2 things.

1) I don't think there is enough enzyme power to convert the starch. They claim oat has zero diastatic power, but I don't believe that. I would be willing to try 50% oat malt to adjuncts, but that would be the minimum, and it would be experimental. I feel the same about rye malt, so if it were me I would replace half of your rye percentage with rye malt, and consider that a sensible grain bill. But that leads me to my second concern...

2) How you gonna cook it? If you ain't using steam, or a rye enzyme, you ain't going to have a good time. This is going to be a milkshake in a bucket, at an optimistic stance. With all that rye and oat, god bless ya. I'm all for creativity, but know your beast. This is an expert level grain bill, so just be aware.

Will probably be deliciously wonderful in the end, though.

Edit* Posted same time as my buddy up there

Edit again.* didn't see blue fish either. This is the problem with being long winded. . I get interrupted allot in life, too.

Hahaha okay this is why I posed it to the community! Expert level mash bill is not what I wanna start with!

So maybe if I wanna have fun with a first time oat mash I should just go either 100% malted oat or 100% malted rye? You mentioned I'd need a rye enzyme tho, would that apply to 100% malted rye?

Thanks again y'all! This input is great!

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

If you exceed more than 20% of your grain bill with any combination of any type of rye or oat, be sure to have a plan to deal with it. If I were you, and wanted to stretch the limits for first time, 70% corn, 20% rye malt, 10% oat malt. You might be OK with the enzyme level if you use briess rye malt, which has 105, and assuming oats is somewhere around 50 or 60. If you use weyermann rye, you could be in trouble. But briess, that bill would get you close.

Do a long mash time.

[ElCubanazo]

If you exceed more than 20% of your grain bill with any combination of any type of rye or oat, be sure to have a plan to deal with it. If I were you, and wanted to stretch the limits for first time, 70% corn, 20% rye malt, 10% oat malt. You might be OK with the enzyme level if you use briess rye malt, which has 105, and assuming oats is somewhere around 50 or 60. If you use weyermann rye, you could be in trouble. But briess, that bill would get you close.

Do a long mash time.

I see! In this case I may just try Odin's Rye Bread whiskey or BentStick's oat, wheat, rye in the tried and true section for the first time just to ease into this!

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Attaboy Keep this on the back burner for when ya got some stuff to drink on and a few processes under your belt. It will be there when you're ready.

[HDNB]

Sounds like a good glue recipe. Make sure you use enzymes to thin it out. I recently did an oat bourbon with 15% oats, 55 corn and 30 barley and stuck the sparge. Can't imagine adding that much rye without causing some issues.

I would try a more barley based mash bill to start, so you can test how it works. Then move to tougher mash bills.

Yeah I figured it gumming up might be an issue. So either add additional malt from outside source or just start with malted barley?

my sippin' COBB is 60% corn, 30barley and 10 oats. for a total 250g/L then i add 50g/L malt 2 row. then i stack on 3 enzymes (see other thread) and then it's all done on a steam jacket.
i would not even attempt this with the internal electric or propane. it's thick and gooey if you don't hit the enzymes just right with 10 oats.
damn smooth mouthfeel though.

same with the 100%rye it would scorch for sure is you are not on a steam jacket/bain marie style kettle. BTDT.

[ElCubanazo]

Sounds like a good glue recipe. Make sure you use enzymes to thin it out. I recently did an oat bourbon with 15% oats, 55 corn and 30 barley and stuck the sparge. Can't imagine adding that much rye without causing some issues.

I would try a more barley based mash bill to start, so you can test how it works. Then move to tougher mash bills.

Yeah I figured it gumming up might be an issue. So either add additional malt from outside source or just start with malted barley?

my sippin' COBB is 60% corn, 30barley and 10 oats. for a total 250g/L then i add 50g/L malt 2 row. then i stack on 3 enzymes (see other thread) and then it's all done on a steam jacket.
i would not even attempt this with the internal electric or propane. it's thick and gooey if you don't hit the enzymes just right with 10 oats.
damn smooth mouthfeel though.

same with the 100%rye it would scorch for sure is you are not on a steam jacket/bain marie style kettle. BTDT.

Oh damn that's also very very good to know since I have an internal 1500w element!

How does one do the baño María/Bain Marie without sticking it in the oven?

Can anything be done about the gooeyness? Like hitting it with a ton of enzymes and clearing with a pillow case as best as possible?

Thanks for the input!

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Next barrel i mash I will be using this-

https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=pr ... duct_id=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I will be doing a 100% oat, 25% of it malted. Internal element.

I guess we'll see...

[bluefish_dist]

Enzymes will help keep the mash liquified. Rye can be tough as it gets thick in the mash tun.
The easiest first run is a simple 100% malted barley. It will convert easily and the grain bed will be the best you will ever get as far as filtering. Personally that is where I would start, then add some oats or rye to see how it effects your mash tun. Nothing worse than having a big glop of paste in your equipment and no way to drain the liquid.

[HDNB]

Next barrel i mash I will be using this-

https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=pr ... duct_id=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I will be doing a 100% oat, 25% of it malted. Internal element.

I guess we'll see...

yeah sorry left out the details
1. i'm distilling on the grain

and 2. i did rye w/o sebflo on a internal element and i filtered and cleared as much as it would...still smoked.

SCD, i'm assuming you are going to clear that oat mash before distilling on an element? would be a great thread with pics and comments here..or a new recipe development.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Next barrel i mash I will be using this-

https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=pr ... duct_id=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I will be doing a 100% oat, 25% of it malted. Internal element.

I guess we'll see...

yeah sorry left out the details
1. i'm distilling on the grain

and 2. i did rye w/o sebflo on a internal element and i filtered and cleared as much as it would...still smoked.

SCD, i'm assuming you are going to clear that oat mash before distilling on an element? would be a great thread with pics and comments here..or a new recipe development.

Aye. Planning to clear it, but now you got me wondering just how effective that sebflo is at preventing scorching. I guess it just makes it manageable? Never done a 100% oat, but I have been thinking about it for a long time, ever since doing an all oat UJ, and a take off at 92%. That was the most interesting spirit I had done, from a uniqueness stance.

Guess I better bite the bullet and get my steam stripper put together. (2) 2" tees with 1" take off to connect them, couple ferrules, and my ccvm is a thumper and steamer. Perhaps this needs to happen before my all oats. I really don't want to mess this one up. Been looking forward to it for a long time.

I'll document the build, and the oat cook. For whoever cares

[ElCubanazo]

Guess I better bite the bullet and get my steam stripper put together. (2) 2" tees with 1" take off to connect them, couple ferrules, and my ccvm is a thumper and steamer. Perhaps this needs to happen before my all oats. I really don't want to mess this one up. Been looking forward to it for a long time.

I'll document the build, and the oat cook. For whoever cares

I have no idea what that equipment is so when you do that post a quick breakdown of it would be super appreciated! I def care so I'll def keep my eyes open for your post.

I've got my rum distills in a really good place I'd love to start playing with whiskeys. Even using some spent grains in the rum wash for a "ryed/oated rum" sounds super fun.