Having a Problem with a Sugar Wash Recipe

[bluefish_dist]

Oyster shells can be purchased almost anywhere that has poultry feed. Personally I found they did not dissolve fast enough to truly provide buffer. Now I simply buy calcium carbonate and add some at pitch, then add more if the ph goes below 4. Depending on the wash and how much buffering it has, I may add 1/2 cup to 85 gallons or 2 cups. Heavy molasses wash or a whiskey wort, then only a small amount is needed, for straight blue agave or a birdwatchers, then 2 cups.

Ph crashing is an issue with sugar washes as they have almost no buffering capacity. The bigger they get, the more of an issue you will have.

[artooks]

When I read about calcium carbonate it says it is irritant to skin and eyes so is it safe to use it as a pure powder form in our
Washes ?

[Shine0n]

I use shell all the time but never anything in powdered form, go to the feed store and buy some crushed shells used for chickens. That's best used in the beginning of a wash to help prevent a crash and picking lime will raise the ph quickly, SS mentioned it in an earlier post about making a slurry and adding it a bit at the time to raise the pH.

1.02 doesn't seem like you have much left but if you're willing to mess with it I'd go with the pickling lime to raise it instead of buffering it with shells.

[Expat]

+1 to what Shine said.

Shells go at the beginning, I've run dozens of washes without any off flavors, PH holds at 4.5-5 all the way through. Something to consider for your next run.

As mentioned earlier, since you're in the middle of a wash its more effective to use something faster acting like the carbonate or hydroxides mentioned.

[bluefish_dist]

When I read about calcium carbonate it says it is irritant to skin and eyes so is it safe to use it as a pure powder form in our
Washes ?

Yes it's safe to use. Get food grade calcium carbonate. It is a dust hazard, so don't breath the dust. It's not expensive and should be available at your local brew store or online. I buy 50lb sacks of it now.

[NZChris]

When I read about calcium carbonate it says it is irritant to skin and eyes so is it safe to use it as a pure powder form in our
Washes ?

It isn't if you don't use powder. I use whole shells collected from the beach as a buffer, but to fix pH that has already gone too low I wouldn't waste my time with any form of calcium carbonate. I have an inexpensive bag of slaked lime from my local building supplier for that. A dead wash won't always restart when you correct the pH and re-pitch, so there is no guarantee that the effort and expense will pay off.

[Shine0n]

Run it

[shadylane]

Run it

And for comparison, start another wash with less sugar, more boiled yeast, and crushed oyster shells.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

To each their own, I add about 2 cups of oyster shells ground to a powder in my hammer mill for a 50 Gal ferment. I've never had a ph crash. My ferments start at about ph 5.4 or so and I don't remember the end ph, but they always finish fine. At this time I don't check ph or OG, having done enough mashes that they always work out the same (OG ~1.070 FG ~1.002). After a while, you probably will get to a procedure that you know and will just run it without being too worried about it.

[artooks]

Thanks Guys as far as I understand Oyster Shells are quite popular for this purpose, next time I will try to find some and try with it, Thank you very much.

[kimbodious]

With soo many tried published tried and proven recipes it beats me why anyone would bother combining recipes without understanding the contribution from each of the ingredients.

[artooks]

With soo many tried published tried and proven recipes it beats me why anyone would bother combining recipes without understanding the contribution from each of the ingredients.

The reason is I wanted to make a very simple neutral without using bran an extra steps needed to simmer the bran etc but
İt was a good experience I learned many things about PH, sometimes it is better to try fail and learn things.

[NZChris]

... sometimes it is better to try fail and learn things.

Bugger that for the easily researched stuff. My fails are usually when treading new ground where little info is available.

[artooks]

Hi,

While I was going to get some shells, I just realised that my mother had some shells for making " Coquilles Saint-Jacques" its a French dish that uses shells to make so I convinced her to give me 5 of them washed and rinsed them very well, they will be going on my next wash, lets see how this will improve my situation they are quite big but that is ok, since they only start to dissolve when the acidity goes up I guess 3-4 of them will be enough they are quite big.

[NZChris]

If you weigh them before and after the ferment and keep records you will get an idea of how much gets used and how much to use in the future.

[artooks]

If you weigh them before and after the ferment and keep records you will get an idea of how much gets used and how much to use in the future.

Thank you NZChris I read your trials in the forum this is what I am going to do
How many shells should I put in a 8 Gallon wash ?

[Expat]

Too much isn't an issue with shell, if the wash isn't acidic enough nothing will happen to them, and you can recover and reuse them in the next wash. You could add them all if you wanted no problem. 2 or 3 would probably be enough within an 8 gallon wash, if they are as big as they look.

[artooks]

Hi,

I did another Multivitamin wash on 25.12.2017 and changed the recipe as follows, which gives me better results.Mixed everything.

Multivitamin Wash 30lt Neutral Recipe V2

* 6.65 kg Sugar
* 25.9 lt Water
* 125 Gram Bran
* 3 Centrum Multivitamin
* 2 B-Vitamin Complex
* 11 gr Boiled yeast component
* 7.5 gram Epsom Salt - (1tsp Epsom Salt: 4 gr)
* 10 Gram DAP
* 130 gr Bakers Yeast

SG: 1.085

Process

* Add 4.5lt of water in the fermenter.
* Boil 1.5lt of water and pour it on the top of the Bran and mix it and add it to the fermenter
* Add another 1.5 lt of boiled water to the fermenter and add sugar, mix and dissolve.
* Make a yeast starter with 11 gram yeast with 120 gr sugar and 500ml water, than boil the yeast.
* Crush, 3 multivitamin and 2 B Vitamin Complex first with mortar and pestel than add, Epsom Salt and Dap and crush again.
* Mix the Multivitamin, B Vitamin Complex, Epsom Salt, Dap in a 1 litre water for easy mixing in the wash.
* Mix everything in the fermenter and add 16.9 lt water to top it up to 30lt
* Take a OG Reading and aerate for 1 min at 1/2 Setting.
* Take back 500 ml from the wash and mix and dissolve the yeast in it, wait 15 min and pitch
the yeast and mix it well.
* Put 3 Scallop Shells in the wash to avoid PH Crash.


Gravity Per Day.

25.12.2017 - OG: 1.085
26.12.2017 - CG: 1.060
27.12.2017 - CG: 1.040
28.12.2017 - CG: 1.022
29.12.2017 - CG: 1.010

What did change is I doubled the number of yeast in this recipe, checked the PH: it is around 3.20 so what I am wondering is how the fermentation could keep going on even the PH is lower than 4, I did receive the shells 2 days ago so I could not try it with this wash but they will go in my next wash will see how it will effect the results, what I also wonder is even the wash finishes at 0.990 and lets assume the PH is 3.20 does this effect the overall taste of the final product ?

[still_stirrin]

...what I am wondering is how the fermentation could keep going on even the PH is lower than 4, I did receive the shells 2 days ago so I could not try it with this wash but they will go in my next wash will see how it will effect the results, what I also wonder is even the wash finishes at 0.990 and lets assume the PH is 3.20 does this effect the overall taste of the final product ?

So, just look in your other thread about this same phenomenon.... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p7504887

It's answered there....you don't need to ask it over and over again...just read the answers provided.
ss

[artooks]

That is a different thread thanks

[still_stirrin]

That is a different thread thanks...

...so what I am wondering is how the fermentation could keep going on even the PH is lower than 4...

Again, this is the SAME "why" question you asked in the other thread. Hence, my response. I don't feel the need to answer it in two different threads that address the same issue....redundant...and a waste of time and server space!

...what I also wonder is even the wash finishes at 0.990 and lets assume the PH is 3.20 does this effect the overall taste of the final product ?

Probably not...but it may mean that you'll extract more alcohol from the mash/sugar wash.

How it tastes coming out of the still depends on how you make cuts...and whether or not there are other constituents (congeners) in your distillate. And the acids, with a higher boiling point, more-than-likely, WON'T come over into your distillate, unless you run it "into the ground".

You're not a "novice" any more. Do your research. Practice your skill. You shouldn't need to ask so many "redundant" questions here any more. Learn...by your experiences. BUT....be safe doing it.
ss

p.s.-"tuff love"...sorry if it ruffles your feathers...

[artooks]

That is a different thread thanks...

...so what I am wondering is how the fermentation could keep going on even the PH is lower than 4...

Again, this is the SAME "why" question you asked in the other thread. Hence, my response. I don't feel the need to answer it in two different threads that address the same issue....redundant...and a waste of time and server space!

...what I also wonder is even the wash finishes at 0.990 and lets assume the PH is 3.20 does this effect the overall taste of the final product ?

Probably not...but it may mean that you'll extract more alcohol from the mash/sugar wash.

How it tastes coming out of the still depends on how you make cuts...and whether or not there are other constituents (congeners) in your distillate. And the acids, with a higher boiling point, more-than-likely, WON'T come over into your distillate, unless you run it "into the ground".

You're not a "novice" any more. Do your research. Practice your skill. You shouldn't need to ask so many "redundant" questions here any more. Learn...by your experiences. BUT....be safe doing it.
ss

p.s.-"tuff love"...sorry if it ruffles your feathers...

I am already practicing and doing my research its just that I got a little bir confused about this PH issue, but now I get it thank you for your detailed explanation, it really helps, learned a lot of things from you so would like to thank you again.

[kimbodious]

How do you calibrate your pH meter? Are you sure you are getting an accurate reading? How good is your pH meter and what is the margin of error? You may be getting unduly concerned by false readings.

[artooks]

Hi I am using a Milwaukee MW102 Ph Meter, just calibated 2 days ago how often do you calibrate ?

[kimbodious]

Looks like a reasonable piece of equipment. Two probes go into the sample, the pH probe and the temperature probe (for automatic remperature corrected pH readings. The pH probe should be thoroughly rinsed before and after use with demineralised deionised water and kept in a proper KCl type solution between uses. Calibration is done using prepared buffer solutions, two point, usually pH 4.0 and 10.0. We made up our own buffer solutions and would tcheck every couple of days. Even with that level of care we used to replace the probes every 12 months.

[still_stirrin]

Gosh, that sounds like a lot of work (and expense) kimbo.

I just use pH strips. Store them in a cool, dry place. 50 strips...$5 USD. When they’re old...pitch ‘em and order more. They just need a drop of the testing solution and get me within +/- 0.2 accuracy....close enough for the girls I go with.
ss

[kimbodious]

ed zachary! pH test strips are the way to go for the hobbyist distiller SS!

[Expat]

Ordered my strips off ebay, Cheap ad effective. Ordered 10 packs of 200 as they were only a dollar or two each shipping included, but they accidentally sent it twice. Strips enough to last forever.

[Odin]

The amount of yeast is way too much. It is not causing your issue, which is probably pH related, but will create off flavors if you go and distill it. Instead of doing 4 grams per liter, limit yourself to 1. Use 0,25 to boil and turn into yeast feed. The rest just sprinkle on top to do the actual fermenting.

Also pure sugar ferments, when distilled, tend to get a bite. Prairypiss and I did some research on it long time ago. If you stay below 8.5% as your goal target, things will much improve. Again, not while fermenting, but for sure in the (neutral) taste department.

Odin.

[artooks]

Thanks Odin, will use less yeast next time, surelly it will increase the fermentation duration, but will give a better result as you said, so I usually use Potstill for my stripping runs and use a CCVM reflux still for the spirit run, does this help if I target %12-12.5 ? With this setup.