sweetfeed whisky

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stillanoob
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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:39 am

Got my first batch of sweetfeed going this weekend. For a 10 gallon or so batch I used 18 pounds of Grainland Select sweet feed. It looks good, no pellets. I does have some preservatives. For sugar, I used 16 pounds, minus what I used to make the starter. For yeast, I used the last packet of bakers yeast that I had. I made a starter the week before with some sugar, a little cornflakes, a bit of oyster shell and about a gallon of water. The preservatives in the sweet feed don't seem to be bothering the yeastie beasties as the next morning it was sizzling like bacon.

Oddly, I don't ferment where I distill. This is because my wife and I each have a place and share our time between them. When I am not at work doing a 48-72 hour shift. One place is on the grid and has heated space that can be used for fermenting a quick wash and power to spare for an aquarium heater. The other place is off the grid and nobody ever comes down the driveway and has the garden, shop and tools. Anyway, because of that I can't do some of the recommended procedures in this thread, like using hot backset to dissolve sugar. So here is my plan and I would appreciate some sweet feedback. :-)

I will rack the wash. It will be the next day before I can come back with the backset, so my plan is to remove the top inch or so of grain and put enough water back in to cover the grain. The take the wash to the other place, run it and save a couple gallons or so after running. When I get back the next day I will heat it back up, just to hot not boiling, pour it over the replacement grains and sugar and let it sit for an hour or so. Then add the rest of the make up water into the fermenter and pour the backset/sugar into the fermenter and call it a day.

What say you? Is this a plan?

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Dutch41 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:34 pm

KS, hello my friend, this is mluvs2fish, we communicated back in 2011. I did do your recipe and somebody else's back then. She lightly oaked for almost a year and it was fantastic. Life got busy, I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2012, got injured, came back in 2013 and stayed in a medical status until 2015. I'm retired now and getting back into it. I'm really looking forward for the day that I get to practice on your recipe and others. I hope all is well...

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Mon May 04, 2020 4:59 pm

I'm just started the third generation today. I haven't been skimming any of the old grain out. None of it looks white as described in the thread. I have just been adding a few pounds each time. The backset is much more sour on the the second run. With the sugar and the fresh grains added it tastes like sweet tarts with grain! Very tasty. The second gen took a little longer to ferment than the first. I now have about three gallons of low wines collected. I am going to do four generations and then do a spirit run. So far, with two stripping runs done I can taste a distinct difference between the first run (no backset) and the second (with backset). The aggregate of the two runs tastes pretty good. With the last run (second gen) there was a very noticeable difference in the cuts. On jar in particular and a very different smell, three people all picked out the same jar. I will be very curious to see how it all comes out in the spirit run.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Tue May 05, 2020 7:05 pm

stillanoob wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 4:59 pm
The aggregate of the two runs tastes pretty good. With the last run (second gen) there was a very noticeable difference in the cuts. On jar in particular and a very different smell, three people all picked out the same jar. I will be very curious to see how it all comes out in the spirit run.
How are you making cuts during a stripping run? I was under the impressions the smearing will be too great to make cuts. I run as hard as my shotgun condenser will handle. I just collect directly into one jug until I get to under 20% ABV. Is there a reason / advantage to make cuts during a stripping run?

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Tue May 05, 2020 8:16 pm

Well, I am not really making cuts per se. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "cuts". It all gets dumped into a jug in the end. I am only sampling as I go along for learning purposes, as I am new to the art. However, even running at about 6 quarts an hour on a stripping run there are significant and easily detected differences between the pint jars as I collect. It is informative to me as preparation for the spirit run.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:30 pm

stillanoob wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:16 pm
Well, I am not really making cuts per se. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "cuts". It all gets dumped into a jug in the end. I am only sampling as I go along for learning purposes, as I am new to the art. However, even running at about 6 quarts an hour on a stripping run there are significant and easily detected differences between the pint jars as I collect. It is informative to me as preparation for the spirit run.
In the same boat as I'm learning.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by acfixer69 » Wed May 06, 2020 4:44 pm

Making cuts on the stripping run is a waste, it is to reduce the water and smear all the flavors over to the low wines. I understand the first timers wanting to see, that is a natural thing. However, the normal, after a few runs if you are pushing it to a real striping run smear the shit out of it and then do a proper spirit run.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by metalsmith » Wed May 06, 2020 5:06 pm

AC, while I agree with cuts in the stripping run is not a big deal, what are you saying here?

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Wed May 06, 2020 5:10 pm

That is the plan. There are significant differences during the strip run though and as a total noob, very educational. I know it is ho-hum for you experienced folks but to me it's like the Love Boat: "Exciting and new". :lol:

EDIT: For clarification, I am keeping all of the stripping run, so not actually "cutting" anything. Basically just tasting it as it comes out, collecting it in pint jars, tasting it and then dumping it all together.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by acfixer69 » Wed May 06, 2020 5:13 pm

It is OK for the new guy on the early runs but wanted to be clear to them that a strip run is hard and fast to smear all the flavors over with the wines.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 pm

AC, would you say 6 quarts an hour is "hard and fast"? I could run harder, my condenser has no problem keeping up.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Rigorous1 » Tue May 19, 2020 11:04 am

The guys years ago were talking about going for generations with this recipe and using the some backseat. Would that sour it like a UJSSM? I read pretty far into this thread and didn't see anybody say anything about that. Sorry I could make it all the way through this thing is long.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Tue May 19, 2020 1:35 pm

It sure does, the second generation and up the mash is noticeably sour. The low wines taste better too. I am doing the last strip run of my fourth generation on Thursday and plan to do the spirit run this weekend.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 am

Question: Does anybody "cook" the new grains being added to each batch in the hot backset along with the sugar? So far, after I scoop out the spent grain, I've just been adding the new grain on top of the older grain in the fermenter.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Sun May 24, 2020 12:22 pm

I do. I take some new feed and heat it up with the backset and sugar.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Twisted Brick » Sun May 24, 2020 12:29 pm

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 am
Question: Does anybody "cook" the new grains being added to each batch in the hot backset along with the sugar? So far, after I scoop out the spent grain, I've just been adding the new grain on top of the older grain in the fermenter.
As a variation of UJSSM, sweetfeed whiskey piggybacks on the simplicity of the original process while providing a more complex flavor derived from the added grains and molly. I always wondered if heating the sweetfeed in a faux-mash would alter the normal flavor development in the fermenter. I haven't heard of too many others doing this, but thinking about it, carefully heating the grains might improve gelatinization, but not conversion, IMO, without a significant amount of enzymes.

Those who properly mash sweetfeed components separately with enzymes, omitting the sugar end up with a true whiskey. The benefits of doing this allows for custom grainbills and an optimum mash regime. I tried it (COB) without adding the molasses, and the result was highly satisfying. If you haven't tried AG mashes yet, the process has more working parts but elevates the final spirit to make it all worth it.

Here are several threads that might help.

Mashing AG Sweetfeed

Making Rumsky

All grain: OPTIMUM Mashing Temperature
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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by TDick » Sun May 24, 2020 6:09 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:29 pm
......
Here are several threads that might help.

Mashing AG Sweetfeed

All grain: OPTIMUM Mashing Temperature
THANK YOU TB!
I saw your reply and was interested in the links!
That's when I discovered I had created the All grain: OPTIMUM Mashing Temperature thread because of YOUR Mashing AG Sweetfeed thread!

I had forgotten all about those conversations.
Good News: Timely because I have bags of corn, wheat and 2 row waiting to be put to use.
Bad News: I have some studying to do.
Read Til You Bleed.gif
Read Til You Bleed.gif (24.78 KiB) Viewed 1852 times
Thanks!

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Twisted Brick » Sun May 24, 2020 7:01 pm

I love posting those links, especially for stillers ready to go all grain or having challenges getting a decent conversion. They're like all-grain tutorials. And like you, I like to re-read them every once in awhile. Thanks, Bama... I mean TDick!
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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Mon May 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:29 pm
WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 am
Question: Does anybody "cook" the new grains being added to each batch in the hot backset along with the sugar? So far, after I scoop out the spent grain, I've just been adding the new grain on top of the older grain in the fermenter.
As a variation of UJSSM, sweetfeed whiskey piggybacks on the simplicity of the original process while providing a more complex flavor derived from the added grains and molly. I always wondered if heating the sweetfeed in a faux-mash would alter the normal flavor development in the fermenter. I haven't heard of too many others doing this, but thinking about it, carefully heating the grains might improve gelatinization, but not conversion, IMO, without a significant amount of enzymes.

Those who properly mash sweetfeed components separately with enzymes, omitting the sugar end up with a true whiskey. The benefits of doing this allows for custom grainbills and an optimum mash regime. I tried it (COB) without adding the molasses, and the result was highly satisfying. If you haven't tried AG mashes yet, the process has more working parts but elevates the final spirit to make it all worth it.

Here are several threads that might help.

Mashing AG Sweetfeed

Making Rumsky

All grain: OPTIMUM Mashing Temperature
The original directions include pouring the boiling water over the sweet feed and sugar and letting it sit for about 90 minutes. Letting it sit for that time could simply be about letting the temps come down to pitching range. Obviously nothing to do with conversion, but I wonder if it would help extract the flavor a little more if the hot backset was poured over the added grains with each generation. I can't think of a reason not to do it.

Thank you for the links to do more research on AG.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Mon May 25, 2020 6:48 pm

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:29 pm
The original directions include pouring the boiling water over the sweet feed and sugar and letting it sit for about 90 minutes. Letting it sit for that time could simply be about letting the temps come down to pitching range. Obviously nothing to do with conversion, but I wonder if it would help extract the flavor a little more if the hot backset was poured over the added grains with each generation. I can't think of a reason not to do it.

Thank you for the links to do more research on AG.
That is exactly why I did just that, hot backset and sugar, bring it close to a boil and allow to cool for a while. No intention to mash, just trying to extract flavor.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Honest_Liberty » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:22 am

DON'T SEPARATE DURING STRIPPING!!!
run it hard, fast, and keep going as long as you can, too maybe 20%.

The spirit run is where the art and true rewards are to be found

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Wolfhound » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:39 pm

I have a batch of this fermenting now. I'm excited to try it!

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by fzbwfk9r » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:52 am

I LOVE this site.

and Thank You Kentucky shinner!
BTW, what's a "shinner"???

I can't get the COBSF here, so I plan on making my own.
I can get cracked corn, cracked wheat, rolled barley, rolled oats, fancy/blackstrap molasses... as well as other grains, AND I live in farming country, so often there are many other options.
I CAN get a rolled oats/molasses mix, and to that I can add my other grains.

So, my first run will be COB/M. I'll grab 1kg cracked corn, 1kg rolled oats, 1kg rolled barley .5kg BSmolasses. that'll be Gen1

then:
Gen 2
When Gen1 ready
Pot still slow

Add 7lb sugar to hot backset
Let cool

Pour into fermenter, and power stir to agitate.

Let sit and scoop off the floaters
Add same amount back of SF
Top up with water

Lid it and air lock it

Then repeat as necessary

to mix it up, I'll try different grains or mix them ALL together.... who knows.
But I gotta start somewhere, Right?

If the pot still slow run makes a nice hearts cut, I'll save up the heads for a neutral run, and the tails for feints run. (or I may take 1/2 feints and mix into one of the Gens of SF to see what that does to the taste)
If nothing else, I'll save heads/tails and do a neutral run on my reflux column (when completed)

I have calcium carbonate, and citric acid.

So I was wondering if adding a bit of citric acid to the first Gen would help
then a bit of CalCarb to the second and subsequent runs.
I like FLAVOUR, so will be using the full backset for the first while to understand the flavours.
Also, I'm not greedy, so have no problem with lesser returns.
the cost is minimal compared to store bought.... up here, I think taxes make up about 70% or more of the cost.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Sailman » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:09 am

I started my first batch of sweet feed today and I guess I made a rookie mistake. I usually ferment in a 15 gallon beer keg with the top cut out so I looked at the recipe and it calls for 6 gallons of water. I figured I could double that and that would fit into my 15 gallon keg with room to spare. I didn't take into account that the grain volume and the sugar volume would increase that. I had about 2 or 3 in to spare and I figured I would be okay but then I took the starting gravity and it was 1.050. I wanted it to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.070 so I decided I would add another half gallon of water and 4 lbs of sugar. Well that brought me dangerously close to the top within a half of an inch. The gravity came up to 1.064 so I'm going to leave it there. The temperature was a little hi to pitch the yeast so I decided I would wait until I get off tonight. I guess that'll give me a chance to Rack 3 or 4 gallons off into a Carboy to avoid a tongue-lashing from the wife

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by fzbwfk9r » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:32 pm

Ok, fudged something together....
14 June, 2020
1 Kg Cracked Corn
1 Kg Malted Barley crushed BIAB
1 Kg Quacker Rolled Quick Oats
1 Kg (aprx) BlackStrap Molasses
3 Kg sugar
50 grams bakers yeast
topped up my pail to about 18 liters
Mix good to dissolve sugar (I used a SS paint mixer and hammered this stuff)
Poured this into my 10gal fermenting pail, just in case of foaming.
Cover and airlock/blowout
My fermenting room is about 62*F all the time right now.
This thing took of like a rocket!
It literally sounded like it was boiling.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Sailman » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:12 am

I was hoping to run this weekend but it doesn't look like I will be able to. This is day 7 of the ferment. The starting gravity was 1.064 the temperature has been anywhere between 72 and 78 degrees. How much longer do you think it will take to finish?
IMG_20200626_115140.jpg
IMG_20200626_115828.jpg
IMG_20200626_115853.jpg

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by BoomTown » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:12 pm

Sailman wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:12 am
I was hoping to run this weekend but it doesn't look like I will be able to. This is day 7 of the ferment. The starting gravity was 1.064 the temperature has been anywhere between 72 and 78 degrees. How much longer do you think it will take to finish?
IMG_20200626_115140.jpgIMG_20200626_115828.jpgIMG_20200626_115853.jpg
I’d say, keep careful notes, and sit back and relax. Your yeAsty beastys are doing theie best.
“…Let’s do this one more time....”

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Sailman » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:15 pm

I was just wondering if the grain may have added some fermentable sugars over the course of the ferment.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by Sailman » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:54 am

I think I'll be doing a stripping run on the first generation sweet feed this Saturday. I've got a few questions first off my plan is to do multiple Generations and doing stripping runs on each until I get a sizable amount to be able to do a Spirit Run. Four generations in total. Would this be considered a fourth generation spirit? Or would it be better just to do a Spirit Run and keep the generations separate? One of the problems I run into is that it takes at least three gallons of liquid to cover my heating element and I don't think I can get that much out of just a single Spirit Run.

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Re: sweetfeed whisky

Post by stillanoob » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:02 am

I just mixed all the low wines together. I would call it four generations of wash.

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