NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

[hren]

My initial batch that I pretty much washed the kitchen floor with is still bubbling away happily. The beer smells great, has both the sweetness of the corn and the almost floral aroma from the buckwheat. At this point, I think it'll distill just fine.

Set up one more batch last night. Ground up the grains, poured a few gallons of boiling water mixed with backset over the corn, and stuck it in the oven overnight. This time, I might have not tossed in enough water. The porridge that resulted was really thick, much thicker than the last time around, and caked over at the top. Lots more evaporation a higher temperatures. Go figure. I'll add more water and cover the pot next time around.

Stirred in 3 pounds of 2-row at 150 degrees, it's in the cooler mashing as we speak. Will throw it in a bucket and add yeast when I get home tonight.

[BrooklynTech]

I'm ready to try this out. But I can't get 6 row malted barley and the recipe calls for:

Grain Bill: 7 pounds cracked corn; 3 pounds crushed 6-row malted barley (optional 1 pound malted rye)

I bought 3 lbs of 2 row.....So how much should I reduce the cracked corn????

[Jimbo]

3 lbs 2 row = 420 DP points divided by 10 lbs total grain = 42 DP avg. THats fine. You need about 30 DP avg to get consistent conversion. Even the extra pound of rye (or wheat) would be fine 420/11 = 38. Personally Id add 2 lbs wheat. 420/12 = 35, still good.

[BrooklynTech]

3 lbs 2 row = 420 DP points divided by 10 lbs total grain = 42 DP avg. THats fine. You need about 30 DP avg to get consistent conversion. Even the extra pound of rye (or wheat) would be fine 420/11 = 38. Personally Id add 2 lbs wheat. 420/12 = 35, still good.

Thanks Jimbo...cracked corn is about 5 mi round trip, wheat about 70 same for rye. Might skip them this time. LOL

[CRACKERCREEK]

3 lbs 2 row = 420 DP points divided by 10 lbs total grain = 42 DP avg. THats fine. You need about 30 DP avg to get consistent conversion. Even the extra pound of rye (or wheat) would be fine 420/11 = 38. Personally Id add 2 lbs wheat. 420/12 = 35, still good.

Jimbo
I wish I understood about points. What does DP mean? And where is the table that says how many points a particular grain is? At least for the ones of us who have gotten by,by winging it

[CRACKERCREEK]

[Jimbo]

Cracker,

Search on Diastatic Power here in HD. There's been lots of detailed writeups answering all your questions.

Cheers.

[BrooklynTech]

Picked up 8 lbs of crack corn today for $0.89 a pound.

Now to find time to cook and mash it w/the 3 lbs of 2 Row. Perhaps next week.

[Stretch67]

Looks like a pretty fine Bourbon. I think I'll try it.
What is your yield with the 5-6 gallons of wash?
Thanks,
Stretch

[punabear]

I'm gonna try this recipe tomorrow. I usually ferment in plastic or stainless but since I am going to mash everything in a 25 gallon copper kettle I'm thinking about letting it cool and fermenting it there too. Anything I need to be aware of when fermenting in copper?

[NcHooch]

I wouldn't ferment in your copper kettle ....the mash turns acidic during fermentation and will etch the kettle and leave some kind of byproduct in your hooch.
I doubt it'll be any cause for concern health-wise after distilling, but it might be enough to leave an off-taste.

[FrancisTet]

Hi guys wanna try this recipe! However i just have access to 5 gallons fermenters, now i have two with the possibility to buy extra ones.
I have a 9 gallons BOP and a 11 gallons cooler
I tried to read the 23 pages of this topic and maybe i missed it but how you guys proceed that way?
Would it be easier to cook 5 gallons batches (even less because of the foaming right?) one at a time or i could split the cooked mash into the different fermenters.
My main concern was that since we ferment on the grain , how to make sure corn and barley is split evenly in the different buckets? Overthinking? Maybe

[danmiz]

Looks like a pretty fine Bourbon. I think I'll try it.
What is your yield with the 5-6 gallons of wash?
Thanks,
Stretch

About 3 liters at 60%. It's great to make and hide in the back of the closet for awhile. It's for special guest.

[stilldistillin]

After many successful UJSSM runs, I'm attempting this all grain recipe now.

So far so good, got it cooled and mixed in the malted barley. I'll report back later

Finger crossed.

[stilldistillin]

Ha well...the mashing went well... 14 qt wash in a 15.5qt pot...ended up being SG 1.06.... but then i had to transfer it to a 5gal pail and top up with 6 more qt. SG dropped to 1.04 so I added some white sugar.. (shh, it'll be our secret)

So I figured I need two things from my first AG process:

1. A larger pot to mash in.
2. A wort cooler... it took hours and hours for the wort to cool from 200F to 80F.. ugh.

Otherwise everything went rather smooth so I pitched some S-04 in 110ml of 80F water for about 30 minutes then pitched it into the wort...

I really respect how easy UJSSM is to start now compared to cooking your own grains.. ugh. However I'm sure the AG is much better than UJSSM

[stilldistillin]

Well I completed and distilled my first AG.

It's very flavourful I must say. Not used to having this much flavour come over in my product. I'm used to UJSSM and usually one distillation is more than enough.

I can see that AG would probably require more reflux or two distillations.... it's sort of rough, even though I threw away lots of heads.

[chemistryfan]

If it was easy everybody would do it. The larger pot would definitely help hold the temp long enough to convert to sugar. Its possible your mash was to hot or to hot in some spots and the Malted barley did not due its complete job? Remember below 155F or you ruin the enzymes that convert. Did your mash go below 140F for the 2-3 hours during the conversion? Did you strain it before you cooked it? Questions are many. Since you have successfully completed the UJSSM. My opinion is cooking very slow which means regulating your heat source. It takes time and depending upon equipment you might need to take different precautions. If your really trying to make Bourbon I would try again. Remember it needs to be 51% corn. When it comes out of your still at has to be less than 160 proof so it holds its flavor. Don't over pack your column. That is basically adding distillations. Refluxing would guarantee your not making a bourbon. You can reflux this, it will clean it up but use it for something else and dont call it Bourbon.

Ciao.

[stilldistillin]

Heya. Everything was kept at the proper heat. There was a good conversion, but I had to add just a little bit of sugar to bring it from 1.04 to 1.06 I believe.

No packing, and it came over at 80% to 60%. Hearts were coming out at 72%. It was all corn except for the malt barley 2 row. I was using a thermometer.. it was held at exacting heat temperatures for the entire cook.

I just think it's the small pot. Need a larger pot and pail next time to do an AG. I think it would result in some cleaner hearts and obviously more drinkable product.

[Sgt-Greywolf]

NChooch .... great looking recipe. Do you know what the results might be if you fermented 'off' grain, using a mash bag to do the cooking and then remove the grain before fermentation?? I've been using the mash in a bag method, experimenting with some sweet feed recipes, adding some things like malted barley and malted red wheat ... and using brown sugar on a couple of them. I'm hitting the two month mark (on oak) on my first experiment and am pretty pleased so far. Experiment #2 using malted red wheat gets the taste test tonight after I get back from the American Legion. Its one month anniversary is today. Has a great 'nose' on it. Sorry, I'm ramblin' and ain't even started tastin' yet Just wondering if you thought doing the 'mash in a bag' might work reasonably well with your recipe ....

[panikry83]

I finally got this to work out all grain has been elusive to me with many failed attempts but I prevailed! Stripping it right now

[jedneck]

I finally got this to work out all grain has been elusive to me with many failed attempts but I prevailed! Stripping it right now

[MichiganCornhusker]

I finally got this to work out all grain has been elusive to me with many failed attempts but I prevailed! Stripping it right now

Very nice! You will refine your process each batch, each time learning a little tweak or something to make it go smoother.
You should have seen me when I did my first raw corn batch, woo buddy what a mess that was. Now I can just get into a zone and relax with the process. Very rewarding.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I finally got this to work out all grain has been elusive to me with many failed attempts but I prevailed! Stripping it right now

Hell yeah!

Looks like all you needed was to get with some fine folks and let your subconscious sleep, errr, drink on it.

Your process was always spot on, so I'd was only a matter of time before you nailed it. Good deal.

How did it turn out for you? Did you do the spirit yet?

I'm getting ready to mash up a 60 corn, 10 oats, 30 wheat malt. Should be interesting. And, it's a mix of three types of wheat. Now to get off the couch...

That's the best thing about this recipe, it's fairly straight forward process. You well soon be mixing up the different grains, and going nuts.

Congrats!

[ventus]

I tried to make this recipe but I'm not sure I will have much success when its done fermenting, as I only came up with 1.024 on the original gravity. Where is the emoticon for crying? Maybe someone who has failed doing this before and later succeeded will be able to see where I could improve my process.

1. Cooked 7 lb cracked corn in 4 gal. water for 90 minutes (180-190F) stirring frequently. It was VERY thick at the end. No thin water separated in the mix, it was like a thick porridge.
2. Cooled to 150 F (took about 1 hr) then put in an insulated cooler and mixed in the 3 lbs. of malted barley (only had 2 row so I added a tsp of glucoamylase and alpha amylase as I wasn't sure that 2 row had enough enzyme content.)
3. Stir malted barley in well, then stir again every 15 minutes for 3 hours. The mash was definitely thinning and sweeter over time. Left in cooler overnight and woke up to a 110F mash that morning.
4. Transferred grain and the liquid (only puddles of wort were on the top of the grain bed, not much separated liquid) to a fermentation bucket then added water to the 7 gallon mark and pitched yeast (it's a prepackaged mix of "whiskey yeast" with glucoamylase) when it was at 75 F. Its now fermenting and bubbling away 24 hours later so I will see what happens..

Questions I have...
How thick is too thick ( or how thick is thick enough) for the cooked corn? Should I have stopped cooking earlier than 90 min? If too thick of a mix is a problem, then should I have added some water before adding the barley at 150F? Does a thinner corn mix make it easier for the malted barley and added enzymes to disperse throughout the mash when it is time to add them at 150F?
I crushed the 2 row malt with a roller pin to break open the grain a little as I read in one of the forums that might be helpful. Is it helpful? a waste of time?
I checked the OG on the mix just before adding the yeast ( after it had been filled to the 7 gallon mark) and got 1.024 . Iodine test showed unconverted starches at this point. Should I have even bothered pitching the yeast at this point? I was wondering if I should have just poured it back into my pot and heated it up to 150 again and threw in some more amylase to see if I could get more conversion of starches. Do the unfermentable starches contribute to the O G? if yes, I guess that means my potential alcohol was even lower than 1.024 would suggest
And finally, does glucoamylase in the whiskey yeast package do much at the usual fermentation temp of my basement (mid 70s F)? I read on a manufacturers specifications table that it is effective from about 86-140F but most active at 130-140F. Maybe if it does a lot of work in the fermentation bucket on those unconverted starches I will end up with more fermentable sugar that will increase the ABV% of my experiment when its done fermenting. Hope is my only strategy at this point in the process. At worst I guess I can distill off what little alcohol is present and make use of some of the backset for the next trial...

Thanks in advance for any experience tips you have found along the way

[Monkeyman88]

Corn needs to be cooked hotter and longer to release all the starches. Even more so cracked corn.
I think for corn, most now use the "no cook method". Dump boiling water over grain and let sit for 3+ hours, stirring every 1/2hour or so. When temp has dropped enough add malt

[MichiganCornhusker]

I crushed the 2 row malt with a roller pin to break open the grain a little as I read in one of the forums that might be helpful. Is it helpful? a waste of time?

I find I get better conversion by grinding up my malted barley very fine. Just crushing it with a rolling pin probably wasn't enough to get all of the enzymes into the mix.
Grinding up the cracked corn, and cooking it longer will help, too.
I definitely like NCHooch's advice to throw in some malted barley early to keep the mass from turning into a brick.
This was one of the first recipes I ever made, kind of combining it with Jimbo's no-cook method, and I know exactly what you are going through.
I had OG's of 1.035 and still make good whiskey from it. As you refine your process it will improve.
You could always check into using liquid enzymes, but there is a learning curve with those as well.
Makin' a bourbon style recipe from scratch isn't easy, but if you keep at it you will be happy you did.

[ventus]

Corn needs to be cooked hotter and longer to release all the starches. Even more so cracked corn.
I think for corn, most now use the "no cook method". Dump boiling water over grain and let sit for 3+ hours, stirring every 1/2hour or so. When temp has dropped enough add malt

Thanks. I may just try that again. I tried the no cook method a couple weeks ago and the cracked corn didn't gelatinize very well so I ended up with another low SG batch. It may help if I grind the corn a little finer next time though. Hopefully I am inching toward a more refined process over time

[NcHooch]

Hey Yall,
A quick word about cookin your cracked corn. the goal there is to release all the starch out of the corn, (this is where the bulk of your fermentable sugars are coming from). When that happens, the mixture tends to get really thick, and I mean REALLY thick. This is why I mentioned doing a little "pre-mashing" with the 1/2 pound of malt to loosen it up a bit.
If the cracked corn doesn't get stupid thick, keep cookin.

I did it in the oven once (overnight at 200 degrees) and it was so thick, It wouldn't even pour out of the pot.

[farlsmagee]

read the first 10 pages or so... figured I would give this recipe a try. I've run a lot of UJSSMs and played around (with fair success actually) with peach and apple brandies in the last 2 years. This is my first bourbon

accordingly... I scorched the first batch of corn so I tossed it. I've got a gas stove so I took my largest cast iron skillet and turned it upside down over the flame then put my BOP on top of that (after cleaning thoroughly of course). Kept stirring every 5-10 minutes for 90 minutes with a long grill spatula using the flat blade to keep the bottom of the pot nice and free of any toasty kernels. worked like a charm.

Cooled the cooked corn sludge to 150.4 and poured it in my cooler. Mixed in 3 pounds of 2 row and kept stirring it every 15 minutes or so for a couple hours. Left it over night last night and poured it in my 6 gallon fermenter this morning. Topped it up to about 5.5 gallons total and measured the SG - was at 1.045ish. Wasn't nearly as sweet tasting as I thought it should be, but I'm hoping the math is correct?

aerated and pitched my yeast. its a-bubblin now. I'm just hoping theres enough sugar to make something drinkable, but cant wait to run

p.s. I ordered some 6 row to play with next week.

[der wo]

How much corn?
A commercial bourbon wash normally has around SG 1.077 and after fermentation 10%.