NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

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NcHooch
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Good post Catcrap. keep on stillin' :thumbup:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Antler24 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:56 pm

NcHooch wrote:Good post Catcrap. keep on stillin' :thumbup:
Agreed! Definitely sounds like ya did your homework and it shows! Good on ya!
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by nsgibson » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:27 pm

Hi everyone, and NCHooch great job on this... I have read the entire post. I have a 5 gal potstill I designed and built last winter, and this spring/summer stripped 6 generations of UJSSM and just got around to the spirit run and putting on oak. I'm collecting ingredients to run my variant of the Carolina Bourbon for my first AG. Since yields won't be as high as my UJSSM experience I anticipate several batches. My question is, I really enjoyed the sour mashing and would love to do some of that with the AG...I will use backset to supplement the next mash generations as I have seen many here do, but does anyone do more than that, like using grain or yeast from the previous mash?
Thanks all for the great reading and learning, what a great resource!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by nsgibson » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:52 pm

So while I still am looking for answers to my post just above, I have made my first AG wash and have some concerns. I followed the instructions with some slight mods,my grain bill was 8.5lb cracked corn, 3lb crushed malted barley, and 2 lb crushed malted rye (63%/22%/15%). I put the corn in 5 gal of 190 deg water for 2 hours, put in barley, rye and 1 tsp amalyse at 150, and it held 145 for several hours, left overnight, and transferred to 2 5-gal fermenting buckets, topping off each to 4.5 gal. I pitched yeast at 85 deg and measured SG to be 1.035. Needless to say I am disappointed it's so low. Did I do something glaringly wrong? What should I do on my next batch to get SG up to the 1.05-1.06 range?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by still_stirrin » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:23 pm

nsgibson wrote:...my grain bill was 8.5lb cracked corn, 3lb crushed malted barley, and 2 lb crushed malted rye...measured SG to be 1.035. Needless to say I am disappointed it's so low.
My calculator predicts an OG=1.044 with a 75% brewery efficiency (which is normal for average mashing protocol). So, you are low here....or you have more water.
nsgibson wrote:...I put the corn in 5 gal of 190 deg water for 2 hours, put in barley, rye and 1 tsp amalyse at 150, and it held 145 for several hours, left overnight, and transferred to 2 5-gal fermenting buckets, topping off each to 4.5 gal. I pitched yeast at 85 deg.
Did I do something glaringly wrong?
What should I do on my next batch to get SG up to the 1.05-1.06 range?
Well, did you grind the cracked corn? If not, grinding it to a coarse corn meal will help it mash better and improve extract. But, it will make it into a pooridge in your mash tun. This is where/when you’ll need the high temperature enzymes. They’ll help the gelatinization process.

Also, I often leave the corn mash for more than 3 hours at the gelatinization temperatures before cooling down to the mash temperatures for the barley and rye malts. When you cool down, the malts should be good enough to convert the starches quickly, so you shouldn’t need an overnight saccharification rest. But...this depends on how successful you were with the corn gelatinization.

If you want more fermentables, increase the grainbill by 10% (in the same ratios). But, be sure to grind the corn first.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by nsgibson » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Thanks for the advice SS, I will consider all of this for the next batch. I didn't grind just used the cracked from the bag.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Joedonna117 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 am

ok I've read all 30 pages and believe tomorrow will be the day. planning on running two batches instead of doubling think it will be easier I have 2- 8 gallon fermenters, I've done sweet feed and uncle jessies so far. I've been fermenting in 32qt brute 13 gallons at a time. so today I bought another pound of 6 row malted barley so I can do half each for mixing an bought 2 lbs malted rye figured I'd use pound each. so looks like 7 pounds cracked corn 3 pounds 6 row malted barley and 1 pound malted rye, heaping tablespoon of distillers yeast(that's what I have on hand) and some luck. Any last minute hints would be great. main thing keep track of temps.
I see everyone lets mash sit overnight if I start say 8 o'clock in morning is it safe to leave till next morning I'm sure it will be noon or later by time done stirring mash???
Thanks in advance for any advice!!
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Joedonna117 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:57 am

Ok second batch cooling everything seemed to go well?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:51 am

Ok I did this too I use the omni calculator app it has an abv calculator.I did 6lb ground corn 2 lb oats 3gallon water got water to hard boil with gypsum added transfer to fermenter add grain insulated for 3 hours.gelatinous stuff .added last gallon 4or5 teaspoons Amylase enzymes it souped it down let sit awhile 30 45 at around 85 90 I pitched 2 tablespoons of dady I had an sg like 1025 1030 my calc says 4.97 % yeild if it finishes to .990.ok kinda bummer so low but on such a small scale and with no actual malted grain I DID get a conversion so I am going the right way! I saved my malted barley and rye as I will be scaling this effort up on pay day gotta get another bop and a mop wringer! As I kinda boned myself and didn't squeeze the grain on my expirement run so I'm gonna have fun trying to draw the juice off this grain
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Celis » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:51 am

Did a version of this recipe today. Used 3 kg of flaked maize and 1,5 kg of pilsner malt. Used high temp alpha amylase while boiling the flaked maize, boiled it for an hour. After that I added the pilsner malt at 65 degrees celcius and kept it on that temp for 2 hours. SG is only 1020,so I guess I didn't got full conversion.

This was my first attempt at an AG recipe, so there's room for improvement.
I am thinking of adding some sugar to up the SG.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by hellbilly007 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:57 am

Celis, if you added the amylase at boiling temps they were denatured before they had any chance to work. The highest temp I've seen on the high temp amylase is 88°C/190°F. Also, most flaked maize doesn't need to be boiled as it's already been gelatinized. Many folks have been successful at only heating up to mashing temps with flaked maize. Stay within the manufacturer's temps abd you should be seeing higher gravity numbers which means more alky. Hope this helps

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Celis » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:35 pm

The package said bring the grains to a boil and add amylase and keep at a simmer for an hour?... Will try to add the corn to boiling water and shut off the Gass next time and add the amylase add a lower temp.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Down_Home52 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:41 am

I have read the entire thread. Wanting to run the recipe with flaked maize, 2 row barley and rye and use the methods I run with my barley wash. Thinking about doing a 20 gallon wash for first run. I will do (4) 5 gallon batches. Am I on the right track after reading the posts using flaked corn that I can add strike water at the proper temp to achieve 155*F to the flaked corn without boiling. Read up on the flaked corn and it sounds like it has been gelatinized with steam at some point in its production and then rolled? I know it is being a bit lazy but I would like to try this first before having to add more equipment to go from raw grain. Also I use 2.2lbs. of barley per gallon of water in my scotch wash. Do I need to cut back on grain in this recipe?

UPDATE - Found another thread that discussed water to grain ratios. All over the board!!! Anywhere from 1:1 to 3#grain to 1 gallon of water with corn. Appears pre-mashing during cooking process is the variable. I think I will try my first with 2# : 1 gallon and pre-mash. I am clear on not boiling the flaked corn now. Time to get on with the process!
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:54 am

Hi all,
I'm going to be doing my first attempt at a whisky soon. I'll be using a 50L keg as my boiler. I built a double liebig.
I come from a home winemaking (from grapes, not kit) and some all grain beer brewing background, so I have some experience with the equipment needed, sanitation, mashing, etc.
In addition to the 50L keg and 2x 30L kegs, I have a 8 gallon SS pot with 2 x 1/2" barbs on it, some other similar sized SS pots we use for canning our garden veggies, a bunch of 7 gallon plastic fermenter pails, 2 x 20 gallon brutes, 1 x 32 gallon brute, and 48qt cooler/mash tun. Have hydrometer, ph meter, cooling coil and pump, and an all-in-one wine pump (vacuum pump for transferring wine/wort without the liquid touching the pump).

My initial thought is to go right for a double batch. My main choke point would be my mash tun, so I'd probably do a 6 gallon mash, get it fermenting, then do another 6 gallon mash immediately, and add it to the ongoing fermentation. I'd ferment in one of the 20gal brutes. I'd then do a stripping run once fermentation is complete, and store in fridge. Repeat whole process another weekend, so overall would be equivalent of 4 of these batches, then do a spirit run from that?

So with that background, would you think this is an ok recipe to try as my first? or should I do something like UJSSM?

Thanks for any input.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by cayars » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:23 am

Nothing wrong with that. You should be able to fit a 3rd batch in the brute 20 gallon as well.
Do your first batch and dump it in the brute and start your 2nd batch.
Pitch yeast in the brute when the temp drops to yeast range.

You could take the 2nd batch and dump it to one of your 7 gallon pails to let temps drop. Should drop faster in a bucket. Once to yeast temps dump in Brute.

Start 3rd batch and do the same. As long as you let cool to yeast temps before adding to brute you'll be fine if you keep this to 1 to 1.5 days from pitching yeast. That will help you maximize your fermenting space. You can even stir the brute if you want the first day to 1.5 days as O2 is good at this point in fermentation.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

So far so good. Setup 2 pots, one with 5 gallons water, one with 3, adjusted grains amounts to match.
Got the water up to simmering, kept that going for 90 minutes, stirring frequently.
Let it sit an hour after turning off the heat, temp was still 180+.
It all fit into my 48 qt cooler, plenty of room still. Added RO water to the mash until temp got down to 155, and then added in the malted barley (using pilsner malt).
Mixed it up well, will continue to mix every 30 mix. Temp is at 148 right now.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:01 pm

So got it cooled down after mashing, topped up to 14 gallons. SG is a bit low, 1.044, but thats probably because I went upto 14 gallons. At 12 gallons it would be more like 7.5% potential, instead of 6.5. However I'm assuming that doesn't matter so much, since I'll be distilling it, right? The amount of alcohol in there is the same either way, it's just currently more diluted so will take a bit longer to distill?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:06 am

you should be stripping it down to a lower abv and saving all that to spirit run it
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:20 am

Durhommer wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:06 am
you should be stripping it down to a lower abv and saving all that to spirit run it
Yep that was my plan.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by frenzy » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:21 am

Thanks for the great recipe! Would someone mind offering an opinion (also for a 5-gal still) -- I hope to use the ingredients I have, and wonder what order you would suggest adding them.
-10 lbs flaked corn
-2 lbs 2-row malted barley
-2 lbs 6-row malted barley

You think it best to just add all the barley when the temp drops below 150? Any point in using over 7 lbs corn?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:30 am

just dont boil up the flake grain as its already ready i dont think 4 lb malt will convert that corn tho...
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by cayars » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:30 am

frenzy start with the corn at around 160F and mix in which will help drop the temps.
When you get to around 152F start mixing in the barley slowly.

The Diastatic Power (DP) of the 2 row should be 120 or higher. The DP of the 6 row is likely 140 or higher. So 120+120+140+140=520. It takes about 30 DP per pound for proper conversion so 520/30=17.33.

So you have enough DP to handle a total of 17.33 pounds of grains in total. You could add another 3.3 pounds of corn if you wanted.

The DP of your specific brand of malted barley could be different from the numbers I gave you above so look them up to make sure and just calculate it as above to make sure you have enough DP for any grain mash. If not you can always use external enzymes to make up the difference.
Last edited by cayars on Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by frenzy » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:39 am

Ooo, awesome info cayars -- thank you!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:50 am

has he specified the age of the grain hes using wont it loose power the older it is...
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by cayars » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:22 pm

No idea. I know I keep good records and would know what the SG should be based on the grains and pounds used.
An iodine test will give you a good idea if you are getting conversion or not.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:26 pm

yeah that iodine deal is a great thing so my brother asked me to make rum i been reading in it im not ready for that im happy making whiskeys
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Down_Home52 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:45 pm

Started with 15 pounds of grain 78% flaked corn 12% 2 row barley and 10% malted rye. Put bag in basket of my Bayou classic BAP so the grain wasn't touching bottom and added corn only. Set the whole thing on my propane burner. Heated 5 gallons of water to around 170*F and dumped it over the grain. Added 1 tsp Amylase enzyme and started stirring. Temp dropped to 144F quickly and the goo was still stiff. Fired up a low flame and trying to bring back to 155F before adding barley and rye. I was expecting the amylase to thin it a bit before adding barley and rye. I added the remaing water in at 170F to help but goo still lingering at 140F. Haven't added malt yet. What am I missing? Keep heating? I am heating at a low flame due to small amount of water in the bottom of pot under basket. Bag is much larger than pot so I am stirring the entire contents.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:37 pm

you denatured yiur alpha unless its the htl alpha anything over 155 is killing it basically
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Down_Home52 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:33 pm

Strike water was 170F and wash dropped to 150F then added enzyme. Waited for it to drop to 144-145 thinking it would thin. How did that denature the enzyme? Not arguing, trying to learn. First attempt at corn and thought the flaked would make it simpler.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:10 pm

I Start with 7 pounds of cracked corn, n cook in 4 gallons of good water for at least an hour (i usually go 90 mins) at a low simmer. ...careful not to burn it.
*optional - you may add a half pound of 6-row malted barley while cooking the corn to loosen it up a bit ( this is called pre-mashing) as it gets very thick.
Then cool to exactly 150f.
Pour into a large cooler (helps conserve heat during the mashing session)
Add 3 pounds of 6-row malted barley ...The temp should drop to approx 145f
...stir well every 15 mins, while you mash for 2-3 hours. Keep covered.

* Note: Don't add malted barley to the corn if it exceeds 155f! the enzymes will be denatured in short order and and you won't get no conversion.the mashing process requires that you keep the mash at 145f +/- 5f for the entire duration of the mash session which is why you use the insulated cooler.

this is what the OP SAYS HE DOES
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