NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

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Twisted Brick
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Twisted Brick » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:20 pm

Thanks for the breakdown. Yeah, I like malts too, but I hear ya on the cost of malted rye. $53 for 50lbs of Briess @ MoreBeer. $52 for 100lbs of organic rye berries that I have learned to malt up beautifully. I've read a lot of distilleries use unmalted rye, but my first true rye is gonna be 85% malted rye, 5% caramel rye malt, 10% 2-row, give or take a percentage point on either grain.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by cayars » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:33 am

pope wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:31 pm
Man I've got to stop making so much equipment and start making more batches. I still need to do my on-the-grain/off-the-grain single malt side-by-side, now I gotta do it with rye flour/malt too.
I know right. The more we make, the more we want to try making it differently. It's a never ending cycle but part of the fun.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by scmoose » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:27 pm

Anyone added more barley to the original recipe? What effect did it have. Accidentally bought 6 lbs of 6 row pale malt which using 7 lbs of corn would keep me within 51% of corn and true to a bourbon.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:00 pm

So I made 6 batches of this recipe (well three double batches). Ended up with 5L of 60% raw dog which is now aging in mini barrels.
I shared two samples with some buddies from my whiskey club. One was pure raw dog, and the other I aged for 16 hours on some charred oak chips(very high surface area in a tiny sample size).
I was quite happy with their reactions. This is the first spirit I have produced, and they all thought it had good potential. Most picked out cereal notes, and a bit of caramel that probably came from the charred chips. So thanks for the recipe. I'm sure I will make this again.
Last edited by GreenEnvy22 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by NcHooch » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:03 pm

GreenEnvy22 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:00 pm
So I made 6 batches of this recipe (well three double batches). Ended up with 5L of 60% raw dog which is now aging in mini barrels.
I shared a bit with Stine Bennett's if my whiskey club. It was of pure raw dog, and some I aged for 16 hours on some charred oak chips(very high surface area in a tiny sample size).
I was quite happy with their reactions. This is the first spirit I have produced, and they all thought it had good potential. Most picked out cereal notes, and a bit of caramel that probably came from the charred chips. So thanks for the recipe. I'm sure I will make this again.
Just wait til you try some aged for 16 months instead of 16 hours. :wink:
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:14 pm

NcHooch wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:03 pm
GreenEnvy22 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:00 pm
So I made 6 batches of this recipe (well three double batches). Ended up with 5L of 60% raw dog which is now aging in mini barrels.
I shared a bit with Stine Bennett's if my whiskey club. It was of pure raw dog, and some I aged for 16 hours on some charred oak chips(very high surface area in a tiny sample size).
I was quite happy with their reactions. This is the first spirit I have produced, and they all thought it had good potential. Most picked out cereal notes, and a bit of caramel that probably came from the charred chips. So thanks for the recipe. I'm sure I will make this again.
Just wait til you try some aged for 16 months instead of 16 hours. :wink:
Indeed :) though with a 2L and 3L new barrels, I won't age in them anywhere near that long.
A few weeks to months in those, then into glass with a breathable lid and maybe some old staves.

Edit: oh man that 2nd paragraph from my previous post was a mess. Never trust Google, especially after a few drams, to transcribe properly :)

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by FreddyG » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:43 pm

NChooch,

Thanks for sharing this awesome recipe! I've made 3 successful batches so far with two more in the fermenters. I did make a couple changes to these next batches. In one I added a pound of rye flakes to see if I can get some subtle flavors in there. I'm also going to oak them in medium roast french oak chips. Regardless the recipe is simple and yields fantastic results, will keep this one around for future use!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by JimP22 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:25 am

I have been reading through most of the pages and I have a few questions. Can I cook the corn in the boiling water, slowly, until conversion and then let it rest until the temp lowers enough to add the 6 row and malted rye? Another question, when you say cooler do you mean a hard sided beer cooler? Sorry, if that is a simple question. I don't want to sanitize/sterilize a beer cooler if I can just keep cooking everything in one pot before I transfer it to the fermenter. Thank you NChooch for the recipe and for everyone else who has posted and shared their story. Makes me very excited to start the process.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by still_stirrin » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:51 am

JimP22 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:25 am
I have been reading through most of the pages and I have a few questions. Can I cook the corn in the boiling water, slowly, until conversion and then let it rest until the temp lowers enough to add the 6 row and malted rye?
I usually bring the water to simmer on the stove and then stir in the cornmeal. It’ll very quickly turns into a “corn pudding”, getting very thick and sticky. That’s when you add the liquid enzymes. Do you have high temperature alpha amylase enzymes?

This gelatinization process is when the corn’s endosperm is turned to an available starch that the gluco-amylase enzymes will convert to fermentable sugars. The corn pudding doesn’t really need to boil (or simmer) to accomplish this. It does however absorb the water and make the corn soft and juicy, well, sticky really.

Typically, I usually put the stock pot into the oven set at 190*F for a couple of hours and it makes the porridge very creamy, ready for mashing with the other grains (barley and/or rye malt).
JimP22 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:25 am
Another question, when you say cooler do you mean a hard sided beer cooler? Sorry, if that is a simple question. I don't want to sanitize/sterilize a beer cooler if I can just keep cooking everything in one pot before I transfer it to the fermenter.
You can do the mash all in your “big old pot” (BOP) if you have enough room for the grains and necessary water. This would require a stock pot at least as big as your fermenter practically, because you’ll transfer it to the fermenter when starch conversion (saccarification) is complete, which is tested by the iodine test....you do know how to do that, right? If not, I suggest searching Youtube for a video on how to do the starch iodine test for homebrewing beer. It’s the best source of info for that process.

But, I have a Coleman cooler mashtun that I mash in (after gelatinizing the corn in a stainless stock pot). The insulated cooler helps maintain the mash temperature during saccarification, which can take from 30 minutes to overnight, depending on the mashbill and grain grind. A cornmeal grind will mash quicker than simple cracked corn, so it is worthwhile to properly mill your corn kernals.

Bottomline...get the enzymes (liquid, if you can) and pay attention to the pH and temperature requirements for gelatinizing and mashing the grains. The vessel you do this in isn’t as important as the proper environmental conditions for the process.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by PaulyD » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 pm

What’s the gravity roughly for this mash, just so I know I am getting wat I should be from it

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by StuNY » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:07 pm

PaulyD wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 pm
What’s the gravity roughly for this mash, just so I know I am getting wat I should be from it
I get a pretty consistent 1.062 initial gravity on this one using cornmeal.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by JimP22 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:27 am

Thank you still_stirrin
Ok here we go...7 # flake corn in water at 160 degrees. Mix and lower hear until 150 then add 2# malted barley and 1# rye can continue to cook and stir until the iodine test shows conversion ( keeping the temp between 145-150)...I will be doing this in 1 BOP.
Once I reach this stage I will allow to cool to 80-90 degrees- Pour into fermenter, add water to the 6 gallon mark and aerate and add 1 tablespoon of DADDY and cross my fingers.

I enjoy reading everyone's post and how everyone puts their own spin on the recipe and process, however it can make it confusing for newbies- at least me. I seemed to lose track of where to begin so did my best reading comprehension and landed at the above. Hopefully I can get lucky and be able to be a successful member of this group.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by StuNY » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:34 am

JimP22 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:27 am
....
I enjoy reading everyone's post and how everyone puts their own spin on the recipe and process, however it can make it confusing for newbies- at least me. I seemed to lose track of where to begin so did my best reading comprehension and landed at the above. Hopefully I can get lucky and be able to be a successful member of this group.
You will, most people start with the basic recipe then after a few batches learn ways to make it work better for them. Cooking the cracked corn was tricky for me, so I switched to using cornmeal. Now I just heat about 2/3 of the water to boiling (I am doing 22g/45lb batches so this aprox 15g is what fits in my keg boiler), turn off the heat, drain keg into fermentation bucket, add the cornmeal, HT enzymes and stir it a couple times. I also found I like the taste of the cornmeal I get vs the batches I did with cracked feed corn.

Find out what works best for you (and can get at the best price/taste ratio) and keep perfecting for your setup. You will learn a lot with each batch.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by JimP22 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:07 pm

Ran my first batch. I ran it slow and stopped at 35 percent. I have them sitting open, labeled with coffee filters on them. Next up is reviewing how to make cuts. I will work with cuts and tempering and then try to oak the good jars and the rest will keep for another run.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by GreenEnvy22 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:03 pm

20200419_175435.jpg
This is what mine looks like after 2 months in new mini barrels (2L and 3L).
I transferred to 2qt mason jars and put in an oak stave I made from an old wine barrel stave.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Dutch41 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:58 am

NChooch, hello my friend, this is mluvs2fish, we communicated back in 2011/12. I did do your recipe back then and oaked it. She lightly oaked for almost a year and it was fantastic. Life got busy, I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2012, got injured, came back in 2013 and stayed in a medical status until 2015. I'm retired now and getting back into it. I'm really looking forward for the day that I get to practice on your recipe again. I hope all is well...

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by StillsNMash » Thu May 14, 2020 4:23 am

Well, tried my first of NCHoochs recipe, but put in 2#sweetfeed in instead of the barley. Anyone done this? Suggeations for pressing the sweetfeed for the liquid?

Was a failed run out the gate as i burned the corn on the hotplate i was using. Thought i could save, but at the behest of advice in another forum, i tossed it all and will start over. Also reading this entire thread for advice and good stories of other attempts!

Stills.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Whiskey11 » Fri May 15, 2020 10:06 am

I used this recipe for my first attempt at distilling a few weeks back. Everything seemed to go well. I’ve got the second batch fermenting now. The only hard part was straining the grain before putting in the still. I need to find a better method.

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Fri May 15, 2020 12:02 pm

Use geotextile fabric
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by StillsNMash » Mon May 18, 2020 1:01 am

Durhommer wrote:Use geotextile fabric
Whats this and where could it be procured?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Mon May 18, 2020 3:31 am

A simple Google search will help you to find your new best friend
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by StillsNMash » Mon May 18, 2020 6:56 am

Durhommer wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:31 am
A simple Google search will help you to find your new best friend
Yes, but that's so anti-social! ;P

Never heard of landscape fabric as "geotextile". The more ya know!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Mon May 18, 2020 3:43 pm

Ask stillerboy about it he turned me on to it i got the kind that goes around big plastic pipe joints that goes in the ground. It doesn't have the chemical crud in it that the regular landscape fabric does
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Durhommer » Mon May 18, 2020 3:46 pm

Screenshot_20200518-184545_Chrome.jpg
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Whiskey11 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:08 pm

Hey folks, I'm on my 4th run of this recipe. Everything seems to be going well. I'm just using a simple keg still and hearts are coming in at 100 proof. I'm going to combine and run it all again for a spirit run. How much flavor can I expect to lose after the spirit run? Should I save some of the low wine hearts back to add to the finished batch for flavor?

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Beerswimmer » Wed May 20, 2020 1:30 pm

No! Add some backset or new wash to the low wines to get them down to 40% for the spirit run. That will help keep some flavor. It'll come out around 65-70% and drop during the run. You'll probably hit tails around 40-50%.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Whiskey11 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:37 pm

Ok thank you much Beerswimmer

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 » Tue May 26, 2020 1:20 pm

Been doing this recipe with flaked maize as a direct replacement for cracked corn for 3 generations now. I’m consistently getting around 1.052-1.054, which is more than I’d likely get with cracked corn. Will this extra efficiency of the corn throw off the flavor profile?

When I can carve out more time, I feel like I’ll be more proud of myself if I can actually take animal feed cracked corn and turn it into the wonderful nectar of the gods!

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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by Twisted Brick » Tue May 26, 2020 2:39 pm

BrewinBrian44 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:20 pm
Been doing this recipe with flaked maize as a direct replacement for cracked corn for 3 generations now. I’m consistently getting around 1.052-1.054, which is more than I’d likely get with cracked corn. Will this extra efficiency of the corn throw off the flavor profile?

When I can carve out more time, I feel like I’ll be more proud of myself if I can actually take animal feed cracked corn and turn it into the wonderful nectar of the gods!
This is totally doable. Just make lots because it tends to, uh, disappear...

You'll get a better return on your corn (and time) if you can grind your cracked corn to meal.
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Re: NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

Post by n_plains_drifter » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:46 pm

Just read lots and lots of this thread. All I can say is I'm glad I didn't read it before running my first real wash after my very first simple winemaker's country wine (sugar/lemon juice) wash for my sacrificial. If I had, I'd have run for the hills and not tried an AG until I had more experience with partial mashes & gumballheads.

It musta been dumb, stupid luck. (Or that mythical corner...)

I managed to avoid most of the problems others have mentioned here, and other than a couple of 'oh hell' moments that required quick corrective action, I only ended up missing my target gravity by a couple of points (1.072). I scaled up the corn and barley recipe from Real Corn Whiskey to 30 l. Ended up at 12.5 lbs rolled corn and 2.4 lbs malted barley. strained the grains and put mostly clean beer in the fermenter.

This'll tell you what a newb I am, I threw out my spent grains rather than setting up a second ferment!

Fermentation was weird, I never really got any visual indications that it was going off, but I started at ambient temps in my basement, around 64 F. I pitched a british ale yeast that was out of a secondary for an IPA I was brewing. i freaked out after a couple of days and started adding DADY over the course of the next few days. Finally pulled a gravity and realized that it had dropped 50 points. 3 days later I was at 0.997 and looking at a an ABV of about 8.7 or so.

Ran 2 strips and a spirit run and ended up with 1.8l @45% with about the same to the feints jug. The first runs of my new hobby are sitting on some oak as we speak.

Although I was collecting in multiple jars, I was running on instinct rather than math, so I was collecting 325-375 mls in each, so I ended up with 10 jars instead of 20 for my cuts. With no experince in blending, I pretty much took the stuff after the heads had mostly dissipated and before the tails kicked in with a vengance. I'll probably have a boring batch, but it's mine and the culmination of a 35+ year process to make my own corn liquor. I''ve got 2 60 l batches of Birdwatchers in process now (one ready for the spirit run, the other in the fermenter) and then I'm going to run NChooch's recipe here.

Thanks for all the help gang!

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