Rye bread whiskey

[Odin]

Please share how it works out.

Molasses and rye ... interesting!

Odin.

[midwest shinner]

That's the exact same bread i used and it turned out a fantastic whiskey, especially for a sugar head. I got some aging on French oak, American white oak, apple and cherry woods. I think the apple is my favorite after being on wood for almost 2 months.

[Odin]

Midwest, what did the molasses do? A hint of rum there? Or is the rye overwhelming it?

Odin.

[Hawkeye3]

Here are the ingredients. Hearty Pumpernickle w/ chopped whole rye, & molasses. Course whole rye meal, water, blackstrap molasses, yeast, sea salt, malted barley, citric acid cultured corn syrup. Glad to hear it can make a good product, Midwest. $2.69 for a 1lb (458g) loaf. Don't know if that is pricey or not but hey "the only difference between men and boy's is the price of their toys" right? Looking forward to this ferment, a lot.

[Hawkeye3]

Started my ferment this past Mon. a.m. Started bubbling within 20 min. SG was 1.050. After 5 days, 1 bubble/30sec and SG is 0.995. One of my quicker ferments. Smells nice. Going to give it a couple more days. Then rack it, get more bread and go for a second generation. Taking about half of the old bread out and adding 2 more loaves and 4.5 kilos of sugar with 2+ gals backset. Sound logical?

[Odin]

Depends on the size of batch you will be making. Strive for 8.5 as your max abv. Backset ... 20 to 25%. Not more.

Just started up 27 liters with just 1.5 kilo's of rye bread myself again ...

Regards, Odin.

[Barney Fife]

I'm on my 6th generation right now; two 2 first ones used 100% of the backset, and the rest have used roughly 75%. Still ferments completely within a week or less. I shoot for an ABV of 5 to 6%; no more than that. I haven't removed any of the trub from the fermenter, and have not added any new yeast or bread since the initial ferment, nor any nutrients at all. Whatever's in that bread just keeps feeding the yeast nicely! It is beginning to lack flavor(the hearts are rather neutral now), though, so this will be my last generation on the original bread; time for some new rye.

[Odin]

How much rye bread did you use to start with, Barney?

Odin.

[Barney Fife]

I followed your recipe to the letter!

[midwest shinner]

Wow Barney, you like your sour mashes extra sour huh? And sorry to be so slow responding Odin, i think the molasses in the bread helped to mellow out the harsh heat of the rye. It still has that rye heat, but not as strong as a regular rye AG. I will include some of my rye bread in the care package, so you can try my version of your recipe.

[short bus]

Very interesting! I appreciate your time and effort! I think I have seen the Malliard reaction at work in my still with AB! I use about 6lbs (2.5-3 kilos?) AB for a 15 gallon (50l) mash. It is yellow after fermenting but comes out of the still deep brown in color. I thought it was carmalazation going on but I guess not! BTW, I make excellent Rye! For a 50L wash I about 1500 grams AB, 2.2 kilos (5 lbs) of Flaked Rye and 16 lbs sugar. All the old timers (80+) said it was perfect! I still prefer AB!

Thanks!
Shorty

[Barney Fife]

If the distillate is coming-off the still with any color at all, you're either puking or your have some bad metals in the condenser!

[Brendan]

If the distillate is coming-off the still with any color at all, you're either puking or your have some bad metals in the condenser!

Yep, what he said...that's not good at all

[aj2456]

If the distillate is coming-off the still with any color at all, you're either puking or your have some bad metals in the condenser!

Yep, what he said...that's not good at all

im kinda hoping he means that the dunder comes out a darker colour- at least thats what i took him to mean

[short bus]

Yep, I mean the dunder.

[baron4406]

Wow I've been off the boards too long, glad to see my favorite shine recipe of all time made it to "Tried and true". If you get the right bread this recipe is just awesome, however now that my aging of my rye bread hootch is about complete, I have a small report. Aging it in charred oak removes most of the rye "bite" and I'm not sure I like that. This may be one of my white dog recipes. I still have a jar of 90% I pulled off the still that I had leftover from my runs, I use it to "spice up" other drinks and it works great. However the wife got a taste for my hootch and its basically all gone so i gotta get my new electric setup cranking in the basement. I'll say it again, Odin is a genius. His cornflake recipe and this rye recipe blow even AG stuff out of the water, it sounds like heresy but its true. I do all sugarheads for my whisky now, I leave the AG hassle to my beermaking.

[Odin]

Thanks for the update Baron! Maybe use toasted wood, next time?



Odin.

[Odin]

An update on my rye bread. There are a few things I approach slightly different now. For instance, I do not throw the thrub away. I find the rye & yeast form a pretty compact sediment at the bottom of the fermenter. So I just syphon out the beer, let it clear and run it. To the fermenter with thrub I add like 5 liters of water and 10 grams of sugar. That tiny bit of sugar helps form a small layer of CO2 on top of the wash, preventing infections. I use the hot backset (20 to 25%) to dissolve new sugar and rye for the next generation.

What I learned is that the rye has multiple generations in it. And adding backset as well as using the rye multiple times enhances quality. Doing just one run with 2 kilo of rye bread (and I mean: real rye bread, that's baked for 13 to 16 hours at 90 degrees C) gives me just too much of that hot rye taste.

The rye that's really spent starts to float, so it is easy to scoop it out of the fermentor just before you rack the beer off.

I add around 500 grams of new rye bread every new generation. That's 500 grams on a 25 to 27 liter ferment in a 30 liter fermentor.

Another improvement I made, is that I slightly lowered the sugar content. My target ABV is 8.5%. Higher ABV's will give over a hot taste that enhances the already very spicy rye taste. Aiming for a maximum of 8.5% helps you to create a drink where the only spicyness/hotness is from the rye. It makes the drink more pleasant!

Regards, Odin.

[baron4406]

Sounds like we need to name this the OSSMR (Odin's simple sour mash rye) recipe huh?

A couple of the old timers suggested toasted/raw oak to age the rye in. Sounds like a job for those tasted oak spirals.

[Odin]

Medium toast Am. white oak would be great. That's what I am aiming for. Charred is a possibility too, but it will potentially clean up a lot of tails associated tastes I feel are needed in this recipe.

Just started a 75 liter ferment. Generation 3 with lots of additional rye bread crumbled in. Target abv? 8%. Goal? To make a whiskey out of it. First two generations I used for vodka making. At 96%, after 40 re-distillations and carbon filtering, it still is a vodka with plenty of character.

One of the things I like about this recipe is how the rye bread compacts to the bottom. That gives a lot of pretty clear beer for the actual distillation process!

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

Odin I was watching tv tonight. Show called bizarre foods with Andrew Zimmern.

He is in St. Petersburg Russia. And he showed someone setting up a roadside beer stand. Keg in a wood barrel and tap coming out the top. She was selling Kvass (children's beer). It's a water sugar and rye bread beer. With a low alcohol content. Like less then 2% ABV. When he said water sugar and rye bread. I instantly thought of you and this thread. Thought maybe you mite want to research Kvass a little.

[Odin]

It seems the process of making kvas and making a rye bread beer for whiskey are pretty similar. Two exceptions. Kvas has a lower abv (0.5 to 2.2%) and it has lactic accid bacteria in it we don't really want in our whiskey making process. Even though ... if in a controlled manner, it will add to the taste.

Thanks for sharing!

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

Lacto maynot be a bad thing. And could take it to another level. Way I see it is. If they are making the crap out of it. And drinking the crap out of it. Like they said on the show. That tells me it must be at least good. And good goin into the still usually means good coming out. I would say its worth a try. Of course you would need to bump the ABV up a bit. But that wouldn't be nothing but adding more sugar.

[Odin]

You are on to something, Mr. P. I think making kvass and making a beer for rye bread is pretty much the same!

But now that I think of it ... there is a mention of "bread drink" (pretty much the translation of the Russian word kvass) as far back as 989. And vodka, that other great Russian invention, isn't mentioned until much later ... but I remember reading a paper on how vodka may have developed out of a "bread fermented drink". Imagine some Russian peasants making kvass in the 12th or 13th century and having it stored outside, when winter sets in. Freeze distillation, etc.

I think kvass can be made by using the beer recipe in this tread, just use 1/4th of the sugar. And maybe try to ferment with kefir, to get you to that lacto? I am pretty sure the lacto is needed. In the articles I read I see that they add something sparkling to the taste. And I can tell you that is very much needed. I tried some rye bread beer and it is dry as the Sahara. Not a nice drink, due to a lack of sweetness and freshness.

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

I've been learning up on kefir a little. Still a lot to learn about it.

The way he was talking on the show. Kvass was a hearty drink. Kinda stick to your ribs type drink. That wasn't really drank for the alcohol. But more of a hearty nutritional drink. That was drank all day long. Since it has a low ABV.
So maybe the lower ABV doesn't make it so dry? Or added sugars not fermented out yet. Give it a different taste. Like a soda?

Don't really know. But now it has me thinking about making some with a good whole grain wheat bread.

[Odin]

They add honey ... for sure that won't ferment out in the 3 days it takes to make the drink, so that will impair sweetness.

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

That makes since. Sounds tasty to me.

[Odin]

So ... you gonna make some?

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

I put it on the list. I have a bunch of other stuff going on right now. When I get some time I mite.

[Hawkeye3]

I finally had the time to do my spirit run yesterday eve. I had done three stripping runs and had 5.5 gals. Added h2o to make 8.25 gals of 45% or so plus 1 1/2 qts of vodka feints for giggles. PSIIHC in pot mode. Cooling water from swimming pool. I ran hoses into my garage. 1st jar was 84% and 24th jar was 76%. I hated to shut it down but it was 2:00 AM and I had to work in the morning. I took a sniff of several jars and boy does this smell great. Great rye smell with no off odors at all. Will make cuts with what I have tonight and hopefully start again in am and see what's left in the still. Thanks Odin I think this is going to be my best run yet.