Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

Sounds like you did everything right. Dont worry about pH, unless you messed with it? Did you add backset or acid or ?

I bet its just not done, stir it up and give it another day or 2 in a warm corner.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by npstephe »

Jimbo wrote:Sounds like you did everything right. Dont worry about pH, unless you messed with it? Did you add backset or acid or ?

I bet its just not done, stir it up and give it another day or 2 in a warm corner.
No backset or acid was added. Just plain old water. I did add some baking soda to one of the barrels last night to try to get PH up closer to 5 to no avail. Ill let it sit till saturday and run it. Thanks Jimbo. Single Malt has been on my list since I first started this hobby.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

The pH is never 5 after fermenting. Beer lands in the 3's to 4. Whiskey ferments same. The fermentation process drop the pH from 5.2-5.6 at start to something much lower when its done.

Here's a list of sour beers all in teh 3's, a sour mash whiskey would be in this ballpark too. A single malt around 4.

http://embracethefunk.com/ph-readings-o ... ial-beers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by npstephe »

Jimbo wrote:The pH is never 5 after fermenting. Beer lands in the 3's to 4. Whiskey ferments same. The fermentation process drop the pH from 5.2-5.6 at start to something much lower when its done.

Here's a list of sour beers all in teh 3's, a sour mash whiskey would be in this ballpark too. A single malt around 4.

http://embracethefunk.com/ph-readings-o ... ial-beers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Hmm. Learn something new every day. Thanks Jimbo! That's good info. I estimate mines in the 3s. I need a good ph meter. I guess my fermentation is done.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by chris_zx2 »

Just tested my ujssm and it was 3.5 at 1.010 so I added a 1/4 cup of baking soda. Weird thing is it was first Gen (no backset)
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

After way too long in the carboy I finally spent the day stripping 25l of of JSMAG. 100% peated. I collected 8l at about 25%. I tossed the foreshots but collected all the way down to >10%. I moved right onto the spirit run, cutting in 100-200 ml increments, combining when it seems pretty clear cut. The cuts have been airing about a day and I'm thinking about what to keep and blending......and would great appreciate some advice. I REALLY not trying to be greedy. I want to do it right. Here are the fractions I have and where I am thinking about my cuts. Based on what I've read, if feels a bit too liberal, but that is what the taste and aroma are telling me...but I am fully willing to be educated that 'there is no way X fraction is good - do not include it' kind of thing. Anyway.

100 ml fore shot tossed
1 - 100 ml - 84+%
2 - 100 ml - 84%
3 - 100 ml - 84%
------ Very clear head cut
4 - 200 ml 83% Pretty sure this is out too.
5 - 200 ml 82% - on it's own I was pretty sure this was out but diluted and then blended in it has some really nice vanilla notes. Include??
------ Heart cut
6 - 750 ml 78%
7 - 800 ml 70%
------ Tails cut
8 - 250 ml 60% - Similar to 5, I was pretty sure this was out but there is nice peat in there and the resulting 5-8 diluted blend I find nice. Just a little edgy that I think will smooth out great with age and oak.
9 - 250 ml 45% - ick
10- 200 ml 40% - blick
11 - 200 ml 25% - watery blick
12 - 200 ml 10% - wet dirty dog wrapped in cardboard....maybe I should include it :esurprised: NOT!

So there it is. Thoughts? conservative at 6-7? 5-7? 6-8? go wild with 5-8?

Thanks all. And thanks Jimbo!
Last edited by Alchemist on Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

Alchemist wrote: conservative at 4-5? 3-5? 4-6? go wild with 3-6?
I dont understand? 7 is in the middle of your hearts. Not keeping it? Based on the descriptions you provided Id keep 4-8. Stick it in a barrel and forget about it for half a year. late heads are needed for fruit, early tails for depth and complexity. They age up nice, especially the tails. I keep the first jar that tastes like cardboard. That cardboard flavor goes away in time. Go easy on the late heads. You can tell where it transitions. Capture that spot where the transition happens to get some fruit and a little backbone to your hooch.

At the end of the day the way 'I' do my cuts, I end up at about 65% of whatever theoretical alcohol is in the ferment bucket. For example, for sake of argument, if you have 10 gallons at 10%. 65% would be .65 gallons of 100%, or more practically, about .86 gallons at 75% average ABV of the keep (about where I usually land with my pot after 2 runs.) Water down to 62% and age
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Sorry JImbo. Try two. Brain fart. I was looking at the wrong numbers. Re-fresh and re-read and see if that makes a lot more sense.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Thanks. Wow, so you would go even deeper into the heads. Into 4? I'll give it another evaluation. Undiluted it's quite sharp, but does have good flavor. But it's only 200 ml out of close to 2 L so I can see the effect might well be minimal while giving some good backbone.

So for discussion sake, what would greedy cuts look like?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

4 is after your head cut line. But you say its sharp?? Maybe Im not understanding what youre saying yet? if 4 is at that transition I described, Id keep it. But thats me. We're not making vodka here, you want some character. 4-8 or 5-8. You need to judge for yourself, its almost impossible for me to say with any conviction here as I dont have my nose in those jars.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Yeah, that's the rub. I'm sure 1-3 are heads. It's that transition I am fuzzy about, whether the actually head to heart cut is at 3/4, 4/5, or 5/6. Short of having your nose in the jar, any sensory perceptions you can describe that might help me make that decision? Would temperature data help tease anything further out?

I did mix up a 4-8 in the correct proportions and diluted it. I don't find anything objectionable. I think I'm talking myself into it. That said, do you see any harm in mixing up 3-8 (3 being clearly not nice) and tasting it just to see if it carries through to my tastes?

Thanks for the input.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

haha, now youre treading into that greedy area you were asking about.

dilute a sample from jars 3 4 and 5 down to 30-35%. Be careful to keep the dilution rate the same. A glass wine thief is great for this. Id be lost without mine. Then smell and taste each carefully and slowly back and forth. Youll start to see the transition Im talking about. Get some crackers and take your time. Coming back several times. Once you train your nose and tastebuds, it will be easier next time. Ive been making apple brandy longer than anything, 20+ years now. I can make cuts right off the still now. But it took a long time to get that confidence. I still jar the AG's and go through this process we're discussing.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Yeah, figure it will clear up soon. I just hate flailing blind. I'll do as you suggest. It's good to hear you still do this on AG. I've done only 1/2 dozen sets of apple/pear brandy and they are a cake walk comparatively. Yesterday's pear I only had two head cuts and one tails before it moved to feints.

And I did that 3 inclusion. Ruined the blend. Turned it bitter. And just such a small amount.

But I will still go back and taste the 3-6 (so I have two controls, a good and bad on each end).

SOOO goes to show how it just isn't 'numbers'.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Update on my latest finished batch Jimbo... I've had it in a charred American oak cask for 16 weeks. Pulled it out, and boy was I pleased. Nice golden color, body, beautiful floral nose, flavor is tasty sweet and smooth as silk, although due to the high ABV (49%) it does have a bite if you're not careful. But being 100% wheat, I'm nervous about diluting too far and losing the already mild flavor and aroma profile. Recommendations in terms of diluting?

Overall I'm very very pleased with it. I'd like sharper flavors with more complexity, but I'm not complaining, this stuff is delish. Now I want to start adding in some rye, possibly oats/wheat in a separate batch?

Thanks for all the advice guys!
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Alchemist wrote: And I did that 3 inclusion. Ruined the blend. Turned it bitter. And just such a small amount.

SOOO goes to show how it just isn't 'numbers'.
Very interesting, glad I saw this! I'll have to keep that in mind, thus far I've been trying to rely upon the numbers to some degree, maybe that degree will go down just a bit. I appreciate the warning!
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Notta Number wrote:Update on my latest finished batch Jimbo... I've had it in a charred American oak cask for 16 weeks. Pulled it out, and boy was I pleased. Nice golden color, body, beautiful floral nose, flavor is tasty sweet and smooth as silk, although due to the high ABV (49%) it does have a bite if you're not careful. But being 100% wheat, I'm nervous about diluting too far and losing the already mild flavor and aroma profile. Recommendations in terms of diluting?

Overall I'm very very pleased with it. I'd like sharper flavors with more complexity, but I'm not complaining, this stuff is delish. Now I want to start adding in some rye, possibly oats/wheat in a separate batch?

Thanks for all the advice guys!
If its too smooth or one dimensional maybe revisit your cuts. I drink this Wheat SIngle Malt at 45% neat. The stuff bottled at the moment is from Dec 2012 and very nice. Fruit, sweet, a bit of spank and a nice grainy finish. If you think this is too smooth and not sharp enough stay away from Oats. In my experience oats makes a very smooth and simple but warm drop. Was too smooth for me and I ended up using it in blends. Rye would add floral to the nose and spice to the flavor.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

I have my second batch of 100% peated Single malt on oak. Exactly the same recipe, but a different procedure.

This time instead of fermenting on the grain, I sparged with limited 160 F water, no boil to preserve the enzymes. I mixed 4 gallons of water at room temperature with the grain and popped the whole thing in my oven on 'warm'. About 8 hours later the mash was at 150 F. I left it there for another 4 hours and then sparged with a couple gallons of water. The resulting wash was 1.065 and fermented to 0.998!

The previous on grain batch had a disagreeable smell to me. This fermented wash was much cleaner and to my liking. The cuts ended up nearly identical to the first batch. Discard the first 100ml foreshot, cut 600 ml heads, collected 2000 ml from 83% to 50% (81C-94C @ 65%) with another 1000 ml tails.

Upon looking at the numbers it seems that temperature spread is awlful wide. Mind you, it tastes good, and a lot of the smoke is in later fractions, but I seem to recall reading about heart of heart cuts 82-86 C for some scotch distilleries. Any thoughts on that? That scheme would have given me about 1.2 L @ ~80%. Worth trying?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

sounds good. as far as cuts, forgot about heresay, anecdotal stories and numbers. Cut with your nose and tongue. If you ended up with 2 liters you like, and captured the smoke, forgot about others alleged numbers. All the interviews with Scotch distilleries that Ive read or watched indicate no such tight cut like that. Not sure where you heard it, but I wouldnt worry about it, cut by taste and smell.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Here is what I was remembering. Specifically for Glenmorangie.
Divert the first runnings (heads) to the feints receiver until the
measurement at the Parrot's Beak reads 75%. Switch to your spirit
receiver and collect `The Cut' (hearts) until the Parrot's Beak
measurement reads 65%. This is Glenmorangie's 1/5 narrow cut. If
you were doing other types of Scotch whisky, the cut would finish
somewhere around 55% (more `tails', therefore a heavier spirit)
http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... =11&t=1062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

75%-65% or 86-90.5 C

I see my memory was a bit off. Not surprised. I feel better now taking it down to 50%. I'm certainly taking more of a head's cut.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

You dont know that youre taking more of a heads cut. I can promise you one thing, if you chase another stillmans numbers you will wrack your head and have nothing but dissapointment and frustration because his still is not your still. The height of his column, the shape and angle of his lyne arm, the way its fired, you just dont know how much reflux he has in his still. But for certain I promise you it runs different than your still. Forget about others numbers. If your cut is not excessive in heads (flavor and nose) then youre fine. Those guys cut for 10-18 years of aging. Trust me, its a LOT looser than almost everyone around here does.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

I totally agree with everything you say. Mostly I'm mussing out loud....shooting for just having a conversation :P

Now one thing I will ask you take on. I'm using 50 ppm phenol malt. The highest I can find. The resulting whiskey is not all that peaty. Any thoughts as to why that is or how it get it up higher? The first thing that comes to mind (retired chemist here) is to verify my wash pH before I distill and get it under 4 if it isn't. Aside from that I'm kind of at a loss how to get more peat in my final product.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

Thats a good question. Im no phenols expert, and dont really know how/why/what to do to get more phenols through the process and into your bottle. But here's one thing I did that brought over a very nice smoke into something I made, for consideration.

If you look at my Bourbon recipe, at the end I do a spin off sugarhead I call Gumballhead with the spent grains. It makes a simple/thin spirit that serves its purpose for mixed drinks etc., but 95% of the time I drink I drink whiskey neat, and could never enjoy a gumballhead enough to drink neat. So, long yammering story cut short, I tried soaking some peated malt in the low wines for a week before doing the spirit run. The solvent nature of the low wines soaked off all the smokey phenols and low and behold they came through into the spirit run really nice! I call this SmokeyHead and its the only sugarhead Ive made that I enjoy drinking neat. Its unconventional, but I suppose you could try that?
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Alchemist »

Great minds and all. That actually crossed my mind. I'll look it up....unless you have some numbers off the top of your head. As in how much peated malt did you soak to how much low wine? Any reason not to toss said mixture right into the still also after a week or three soak? I have about 1.5 L of feints that I could get extracting that could be tossed into the next run.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by Jimbo »

going off fuzzy memory I think it was a couple lbs in 2 gallons of 30% low wines. If you put the whole shootin match in the still be careful for scorching. Scorch any of that grain and the whole lot will go down the drain. Scorch is some evil shit that takes no attempted treatment laying down.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Thanks for the warning....maybe straining and rinsing isn't that big a deal :shock:
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by buflowing »

Take all this with a grain of salt. I'm a rookie.

Keep on collecting in multiple jars past your "cutoff" point. You may find some keepers quite deep. Not all jars, they come and go, but you may find some good ones buried down in there. (I've kept some in the 40's.) I think that's where I've found a lot of that smoky ass goodness you're looking for. If you've got the time to wait that is. It will take some time, year or so, to get good.

As for macerating grain in low wines, I've used roughly 1/2 cup per gallon. Let it sit for 1 to 2 weeks. Drained before running. Crystal, smoked, aromatic, victory, etc have a nice carryover. However, I don't find myself doing it anymore. Hmmm, not sure why.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

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Jimbo wrote: If its too smooth or one dimensional maybe revisit your cuts. I drink this Wheat SIngle Malt at 45% neat. The stuff bottled at the moment is from Dec 2012 and very nice. Fruit, sweet, a bit of spank and a nice grainy finish. If you think this is too smooth and not sharp enough stay away from Oats. In my experience oats makes a very smooth and simple but warm drop. Was too smooth for me and I ended up using it in blends. Rye would add floral to the nose and spice to the flavor.
I was wondering about my cuts for sure. I do think I may have gone narrower than necessary out of being careful. I'm pretty nervous about getting some harmful stuff in there from the heads. And from the tails, I've been using some jars where I can see the floaters and fusel oils on top, albeit in small quantities. I notice you are saying that you cut soley by taste and nose, and since I'm a newbie I probably just need some more batches under my belt to acquire this skill. But is there some sort of description, or rule of thumb you can hand out that would make the cut lines easier to distinguish? In other words, how much will age out and become delish? I'd love to expand my hearts cut for sure, and probably should, but how far seems to be the question?

Heads: How much of that astringent bite is still safe? Tails: How many floaters and oil film is desired?

Your thread here has been immensely helpful, and I love my latest batch. I'm just looking to ever improve.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by jedneck »

I have ran 4 batches of this using 66% malted corn and 34% malted white wheat. Not exactly a single malt but it is all malt. Results are looking promising. Still have 3 months till the first run hits 5 months on oak.
If your looking for a bourbon type drop and don't wanna cook the living shit outta corn this is a way to do it. If you can get or make malted corn.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by jedneck »

I was at the scratch n dent/bulk food store and saw that they had sprouted spelt flour. From my research it is just malted spelt that is airdried at local temp. Gonna pick a 5# bag up to see if it converts. If so I'm getting 50#.
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Re: Jimbo's Single Malt AG Recipe

Post by piperdave »

A couple questions:

Just into day 3 of the ferment which is going fine.
Does all the grain float to the top on your guys ferment and if so, does it eventually drop?
Also, can I use my fruit press to squeeze the spent grain to get the residual "juice"?

Details: 12.5 kg milled 2 row malt barley into 60 L fermenter (to small as I have discovered), 25 L water to 71C added to fermenter, mash temp 65C, wrapped and let it sit over night (about 8 hr.), added 25 L room temp water, SG 1.046 (a little low but whatever), pitched yeast at 25 C (3 pk ec 1118 in 500 ml of mash for 20 min).
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