Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

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mikejwoodnz
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by mikejwoodnz » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:53 am

canuck wrote:I'm just a newb and looking forward to try DWWG. Maybe you just ran your still too slow to get most of the flavors out of the mash. I'm sure someone more experienced could have a better answer.
It is the 60+ minute cook of the Wheat Germ that aids in converting it's fermentable sugars - hence the initial hyperactivity in the wash - very good for a scotch wash - adds nice grain and bouche elements as well.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by travis » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:18 am

Have you a thermometer in the Column? Monitoring the Column temperature is important. Low temperature high alcohol, high temperature low alcohol along with an "Alcohol Hydrometer" to separate the cuts accurately.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:19 pm

mikejwoodnz wrote:It is the 60+ minute cook of the Wheat Germ that aids in converting it's fermentable sugars - hence the initial hyperactivity in the wash - very good for a scotch wash - adds nice grain and bouche elements as well.
No. It's not.
There are no enzymes in the DWWGW recipe that would allow the (minimal) starches in the wheat germ to convert to useable sugar.
The hyperactivity of the wash is due to two things:
1. the long cooking make the nutrients in the WG more bio-avalible, giving a fast initial ferment
2. the HUGE surface area provided by the many minute flakes of WG give many nucleation points for the bubbles of Co2 produced by the yeast lifting them to the surface and creating a massive krausen that has a tendency to choke airlock and then make barrels blow their tops!

I have no quarrel the you comments relating to flavour however! It can make a rather good faux-scotch with the addition of some oak and some peat reek
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by mikejwoodnz » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:09 pm

frozenthunderbolt wrote:
mikejwoodnz wrote:It is the 60+ minute cook of the Wheat Germ that aids in converting it's fermentable sugars - hence the initial hyperactivity in the wash - very good for a scotch wash - adds nice grain and bouche elements as well.
No. It's not.
There are no enzymes in the DWWGW recipe that would allow the (minimal) starches in the wheat germ to convert to useable sugar.
The hyperactivity of the wash is due to two things:
1. the long cooking make the nutrients in the WG more bio-avalible, giving a fast initial ferment
2. the HUGE surface area provided by the many minute flakes of WG give many nucleation points for the bubbles of Co2 produced by the yeast lifting them to the surface and creating a massive krausen that has a tendency to choke airlock and then make barrels blow their tops!

I have no quarrel the you comments relating to flavour however! It can make a rather good faux-scotch with the addition of some oak and some peat reek
I am not suggesting there are any enzymes at work - the boiling converts fibres, starches and some inulin to fermentable sugars - it doesn't not work if you not not boil it but still works if you filter it after boiling. I oak any faux-scotch of course and add liquid smoke and port if required - depends of course on which breed of faux you are cloning ! :thumbup:
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by F6Hawk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:41 pm

travis wrote:Have you a thermometer in the Column? Monitoring the Column temperature is important. Low temperature high alcohol, high temperature low alcohol along with an "Alcohol Hydrometer" to separate the cuts accurately.

Travis
Huh? How does column temp relate to alcohol output? The temp at the top of the column is based on the composition of the wash. The ABV is based on how fast you collect it (i.e. reflux ratio), isn't it?

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by greasydog26 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:24 pm

So this is my very first ferment as I followed the instructions closely. After the wash cooled I added my Red star champagne yeast and the ferment had a SG of 1.080. After about four days the SG didn’t change much, maybe 1.070, and then I added some EC-1118 and things started to spark up a little more. The temperature has been between 70 and 74 F. As of now the SG is 1.050 a week in today. I guess I would have just figured it would have been a little further along than this. Does this sound about right given the temperature and should I let the SG go to 1.000? It sure is starting to smell good and I’m excited to run my first batch. Any help is much appreciated.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by travis » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:19 pm

Column temp. tells me what alcohol is available in the wash at any particular time during the run. The run starts off at low temp. as high alcohol content boils at low temp. As the temp. rises in the column it tells me the alcohol in the wash is diminishing. Using this in conjunction with an Alcohol Hydrometer, I can make "accurate" cuts. "Huh"

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by MartinCash » Sun May 19, 2013 8:22 pm

mikejwoodnz wrote:I am not suggesting there are any enzymes at work - the boiling converts fibres, starches and some inulin to fermentable sugars - it doesn't not work if you not not boil it but still works if you filter it after boiling. I oak any faux-scotch of course and add liquid smoke and port if required - depends of course on which breed of faux you are cloning ! :thumbup:
Boiling might gelatinise starches, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't convert anything you're mentioning to fermentable sugars, without amylase. What it does do is start to break down some of the protein into amino-acid components and free up nutrients that the yeast can use, such as vitamins... but not sugars. In any case there's no amylases in wheat germ, to convert starch and oligosaccharides to fermentable sugars, and I haven't yet heard of a viable way to convert fibre (cellulose) to fermentable sugar.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by MartinCash » Sun May 19, 2013 8:28 pm

F6Hawk wrote:Huh? How does column temp relate to alcohol output? The temp at the top of the column is based on the composition of the wash. The ABV is based on how fast you collect it (i.e. reflux ratio), isn't it?
In a reflux still, the temperature at the top of the column, near the take-off port, is a function of the vapour composition. Heads are more volatile than ethanol and their vapour teperature in the head of a reflux still in equilibrium is lower than that of ethanol. The temperature will go up as the main component of the vapour becomes ethanol/water azeotrope. Again when you transition to tails, or the ethanol percentage in the vapour drops, the temperature rises.
In my newly built VM still, the hearts sit at a rock-solid 78.2 degrees, and the moment I see a rise to 78.3, I know it's time to start compressing tails.
I've never used temperature in my pot still, I go just by flavour.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Squattingcoyote » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:01 pm

Well I started up my first DWWG batch on Wed and pretty much followed the original recipe to a T except measuring out the germ. Just guestimated but probably close if not a little more than 16oz. When I checked on things Thursday morning it seemed that I had DW's original results as well. Germ splattered on the ceiling, airlock across the room and carboy foaming out the top. Still bubbling every two seconds or so anf am looking forward to seeing how she turns out. Thanks for all the great info everyone!
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Dephlegmator » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:31 pm

This is my 3rd time running this recipe, very good results, fast ferment, finishes just over a week and has made a very fine clean spirit.
I just have one problem with it over the first day it is so active it foams up and spills out the barrel,
I learnt with the first one to just drape a tea towel over the top with no lid. it blocked up the airlock and shot it out, creating quite a mess, germ and foam everywhere.
But even with a tea towel over the top I am still getting it foaming over on the first day.
I was wondering if I could strain the next batch I boil up through some muzlin cloth to get rid of the solids, be-four pitching the yeast, possibly stopping the excessive foaming build up but with achieving the same results?

Any suggestions are welcome.

I just had a thought, I have been doing 22L batches in 30L barrels, this clearly not being enough headspace for the foam, the next batch I might start it in a 50L barrel that I have floating round, usually use it for racking off into, then onece it has calmed down a bit put it into the 30L barrel

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by pt49 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:40 am

I'm thinking your ambient temp is maybe high at this time of year... you are "down south"... that could be in south of NZ or south of USA... a difference of about 70F at this time of the year

edit... oh, I see a Kiwi as your avatar. Guess you are not in Louisianna then.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Dephlegmator » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:44 pm

Yes from New Zealand, south island, its winter at the moment, could have been possible that start temp of the wash could be to high,
guessing I pitched yeast at around 32 - 33 *C, did not kill the yeast but makes a very aggressive start to fermentation. I will make sure the temp is 30 or under next time I start this wash, but like I said in previous post I will start the wash in a bigger barrel.
Thanks for your suggestion. I completely overlooked temperature

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Dephlegmator » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:28 pm

Update on what I have done with this recipe

I have done this wash twice now in 50L barrels

The first time worked a charm, 25 - 30L of headspace above my 24L wheat germ wash, foamed up about 150ml above the level of wash then receded to form a cap.
this one only took 3-4 days to finish fermenting, so I racked it off into another barrel and started another one

the second one in the 50L barrel, I thought would have the same result as the first but managed to block my airlock and really pressurize the barrel.

Lesson learnt, OVER THE FIRST DAY OF FERMENTATION OF DWWG DO NOT USE AN AIRLOCK!

I hope others can learn from this

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Dephlegmator » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:42 pm

pitching temp contributes to the frothing up of the wheat germ.

I usually get impatient and add yeast at 32*C, this creates a fast start and creates a huge foam cap, usually leaving the fermenter

I have since then added yeast at 25-27*C and this has controlled the foam cap. normally up to 100mm

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by midwest shinner » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:34 am

So i was at home the other nite and decided i wanted to make up a batch of something but having not thought ahead to charge batteries for my drill, and not feeling like grinding up 20-30lbs of grain by hand with my mill, i looked around to see what my options were. I spyed the wheat germ i bought a while ago and decided to give this classic tried and true recipe a go. I brought 5 gals water to a boil and added my sugar(about 19lbs total),a 12 oz bottle of unsulphured molasses i had laying around(since i was 1 lb shy on the sugar anyway),2 tsp of citric acid, and 32 oz of wheat germ and let simmer for over an hour stirring regularly. I added this to my fermenter with another 6 gal of cool water and when my temp got down to 80°F i pitched some 32grams of bakers yeast. I let it sit for about 20 mins or so and stirred and aerated the crap out of the wash. This is one of the best smelling washes I've made in a bit, every time i smell it i want to take a sip of the wash. Its been working for 2 days at about 70°F and going like crazy. Anyway, can't wait to get it run and see what I've got here, i will report back when I've got some results from this batch.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Halfbaked » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:50 am

Hay mid west. I think you will like this. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=43640 Its so funny that you posted here about this casue S-cak is taking a break and I recommended he try this. I think it sounded like he was a little discouraged with his drop. If I'm doin sugar this was my go to and the second batch with back set is better than the first. The first is good. Do you plan on doing a strip and a spirit or just one? I liked to do 3 or 4 strippers and 1 spirit and maybe rob some of the middlins out for sippin now. I like this better than USSM. JMHO Wheat over corn 100% of the time in white. BTW keep lots of head space in fermenter it is active. Does your house smell like beer bread? Get you a sip of beer you will be surprised 100%. I really enjoyed da beer. You gotta report back.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by midwest shinner » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:17 pm

A agree white wheat whiskey is a fine drop(or oaked i love both) but i do love my corn whiskey either way as well. My spare bedroom(my usual fermentation room) does still smell wonderful. I've been wanting to get more heavily into AG lately, but this recipe was so easy and convenient at the time. So likely i will only be doing sugarheads with my spent grains(at least til i burn through my large stash of grain) But it will be nice to have another wheat sugarhead to compare to my faux wheat whiskey I've been making for a few months now. I will likely do a strip then spirit run, i usually try to save a bit of wash to add to the spirit run though, to help preserve some of the flavor a bit more. Anyway,enough of my rambling for now, but i will definitely keep posting as i get some results.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Halfbaked » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:14 pm

Taste the beer. Never done an all grain. Jimbo would call it thin but nice flavor. Maybe rob some middlins with stripper run.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by midwest shinner » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:29 pm

I will give the wash a taste tonite when i get home, it smells fantastic still and should have a bit of abv under its belt at this point. I've just got a bunch of grains i need to get thru and I've been meaning to get away from sugarheads a bit... Nothing against em, I'm just a big fan of whiskies and really grains in general
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by canuck » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:32 pm

I just started a 46L of DWWG wash on saturday with only 4kg of sugar so I can step it up gradualy to 7kg (aiming for 9% abv). It was dry yesterday, so I put another kg of sugar. Checked again today and the SG was back to 0.998. It ferments very quickly so one kg again up to 6kg, only one to go. I used baker's yeast and keep the temp between 25 C and 30 C. I just wished to keep the fermentation going till next saturday to keep the oxygen out of the fermenter (I use a new trash can). I'll try to keep temps under 25C next time. I'll run it thru my detuned reflux column saturday or sunday.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by canuck » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:05 pm

Looks like my fermentation slowed a bit, it's still bubbling enough today. So I will probably add the last kg of sugar tomorow and it should go till saturday.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by canuck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:55 pm

Ran it on last saturday. It's still airing. I didn't get as much hearts as I expected. It was partly my fault, I tried to run it too fast so the tails came out at around 89%ABV. I might try to potstill it next time.
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Halfbaked » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:02 am

put your hearts heads and tails back in your still and rerun it slow. Take off your fores again.

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by canuck » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:18 am

Hey halfbaked,
I'll have to run it with my next wash since there is not enough to run by itself. Or I might potsill my next two washes and then do a combined spirit run. I need to have at least 2.5 gal. of backset left in the boiler at the end of the run ( it's the height of the electric element).
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by IdahoStiller » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:24 pm

Tip of the day:
Don't leave the lid on the pot while simmering this mixture. Gonna be a real biatcha cleaning the wife's stove top :oops:
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Bill-a-newbie » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:02 am

I have seen a few different recipies for wheat germ, One says remove the wheat germ before and yeast and one doesn't say anything about removing the wheat germ. I made a batch and left the WG in the fermenter and it has been bubbling quite well for 5 days. Should I have taken the WG out or will it be OK with it in the fermenter?
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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by Bill-a-newbie » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:30 am

Well, It just finished bubbling ( 10 DAYS ), I will let it set for the weekend and run it on Monday!

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by rad14701 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:35 pm

Bill-a-newbie wrote:I have seen a few different recipies for wheat germ, One says remove the wheat germ before and yeast and one doesn't say anything about removing the wheat germ. I made a batch and left the WG in the fermenter and it has been bubbling quite well for 5 days. Should I have taken the WG out or will it be OK with it in the fermenter?
I leave the wheat germ in the fermenter... As I see it, it helps keep things churned up... Plus it's fun to watch... :D Whether you leave it in or not will make zero difference on fermentation time...

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Re: Deathwish Wheat germ recipe

Post by UCclear » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:27 am

Well I finally got to try this ferment and I have been wanting to forever. The other day I had my 16 oz jar of wheat germ in front of me and I went through this entire dwwg section wanting to do everything right. I was worried reading post saying that the ferment never started, others saying that it took as long as an ordinary sugar wash which made me nervous because the short ferment time was one of the main reasons I was excited about it. Not to mention I only had a two gallon pot for the boil and it would only be filled half way including 10 pounds of sugar and wheat germ. It worked fine boiled ten pounds white sugar 2 teaspoons lemon juice and I had 2 twelve oz jars of wg of which I used just under one and a half jars. All boiled with one gallon of water that I topped off to five gallons with cool water. Pitched one packet of fleischmanns highly active yeast dry. Then I made a starter with 8oz warm water and a little sugar set for 15minutes. Yeast in starter was fleischmanns active dry(not highly active). Once I pitched it, airlock was gone in 30 min. 48 hour ferment. I mean wow I thought I would be lucky to get it done in 3 to 5 days. 14 percent abv and clearing right now. I am trippin on how great this worked. Bottom line follow the recipe and it will work. I never use 2 packets so don't know if I needed to I was just set on making it start. Also you don't need a large pot for buildup I couldn't have used more than a gallon in a two gallon pot. Full 90minutes! ! Thanks for all the insight couldn't have done it without this thread if anyone has a question feel free to ask good luck everyone, have fun and most importantly be safe

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