Booner's Casual All Corn

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Bodhidan » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:23 am

Sorry, yeah I was just using it generically. I add the HT Alpha Amylase at 180, my malted rye at 160 which brings the temp down to my 149 Gluco-amylase pitch temp.

I have adjusted all my Ph level as per instructions as well. It's not that it isn't working at all, I am getting the thick layer of sugar separating to the top that tests fine but it seems like I am leaving a lot of starches on the table below.

I insulated much better yesterday and my pot stayed in the ideal temp range for hours. It was still about 110 this morning when I racked it. Today my specific gravity was for about 6% potential. *update* After sparging my SG went down considerably, the starch test showed that everything I rinsed out was full of starch.

For my next round, I will insulate it from the get and see if that helps any. I still have about 3.5 gallons of 50% stripped from my previous attempts and another 20 gallons ready to strip by next weekend so I'm making product just not as efficiently as I had hoped moving to the enzymes.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Bodhidan » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:41 am

MtRainier wrote:
Bodhidan wrote:I'm on my 4th round of this protocol and am one of the folks who seem to be having a harder time at it.

Currently using 20lb corn and 4lb rye malt for a 10G final product. I have been using my 26 gallon electric boiler as a hot liquor tank heating to boiling, pouring over corn and following all other instructions exactly(other than adding my malt at below 160 just before sebstar). I consistently ended up with a 5% abv mash and have failed my final starch tests always still getting a black/blue result even after the night's rest.

My corn comes well ground but I have also ground it down further with no real noticeable impact.

I am working on better insulation of my mash tun to see if that has any impact and will also try to cook the corn for my next batch using a propane. I really wanted to get this steeping method working which you can walk away from rather than gas that really requires my full attention.
Bodihan,

Seems to me that cooking the corn liberates more starch for conversion. I don't think it has an impact on the actual conversion process, so it wouldn't help with the starch test. I'd look to your conversion process with the enzymes to be sure you're using them right. Manc's suggestion on pH is sensible.

One thing I noticed is that you mentioned using Sebstar at 160F, which is typically what people call the High-Temp enzyme used around boiling temperature that breaks apart the starches, but you didn't mention Sebamyl, which is the low temp gluco-amylase enzyme that actually makes the fermentable sugars. Maybe you meant to say Sebamyl or are just using Sebstar as a generic term?
Tried again last night this time using 25 lbs corn and 6 lbs rye for a 10-gallon batch. I added the boiling water to the grains then used gas to bring back up to a full boil for 10 mins. I have a false bottom and kept the agitator going the entire time so didn't get any scorching. After the boil, I had a really thick porage so I don't think there is any doubt that plenty of starches were available. The alpha was added at 180 and definitely did its job thinning everything out. I made sure my PH was below 4.5 and pitched the Gluco at 149 degrees. I had my mash tun well insulated and used my pump to recirculate for 90 mins. The mash held between 145-149 the entire time.

I left overnight and still only pulled about 1.5 SG in the morning.

Like I said its working just not nearly as efficiently as I would have hoped. I'm starting to think that perhaps the enzyms I received have diminished potency due to age or some other factor I'm not aware of.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by fizzix » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:22 am

Do you mean 1.05 gravity? And did you temperature correct your gravity reading?
That corn can really hold the heat and give a false reading.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Bodhidan » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:05 pm

fizzix wrote:Do you mean 1.05 gravity? And did you temperature correct your gravity reading?
That corn can really hold the heat and give a false reading.

Yes, 1.05 sorry. And yes everything has been corrected for temp. I'm just not having much luck and can't put my finger on it. The good news is I have 400lbs of corn so can keep at it.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by MtRainier » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:27 pm

Bodhidan wrote:
fizzix wrote:Do you mean 1.05 gravity? And did you temperature correct your gravity reading?
That corn can really hold the heat and give a false reading.

Yes, 1.05 sorry. And yes everything has been corrected for temp. I'm just not having much luck and can't put my finger on it. The good news is I have 400lbs of corn so can keep at it.
Can't explain it. It does seem like you're doing everything right.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by fizzix » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:56 pm

Still, 1.05 isn't too horrible. I think I consistently got into 1.06 territory on my 9 ferments of Booner's.
Your porridge turned to soup, so at worst your enzymes are diminished but not powerless.

Just a thought, Bodhidan...
I use powdered enzymes and the powdered gluco goes in at room temperature.
Are you sure your gluco goes in at that relatively high temperature you pitched into?
(I'm not familiar with the liquid enzymes.)

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Bodhidan » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:10 pm

fizzix wrote:Still, 1.05 isn't too horrible. I think I consistently got into 1.06 territory on my 9 ferments of Booner's.
Your porridge turned to soup, so at worst your enzymes are diminished but not powerless.

Just a thought, Bodhidan...
I use powdered enzymes and the powdered gluco goes in at room temperature.
Are you sure your gluco goes in at that relatively high temperature you pitched into?
(I'm not familiar with the liquid enzymes.)
Yes, I think that the alpha is working as intended and I would be satisfied with the 1.05 if it wasn't taking so large a grain bill(30lbs total) to achieve plus the fact that I am certain that starches are being left in the mash. It's really the Gluco that seems to be underperforming.

I am using the liquid enzymes others have mentioned here and am following the pitch temp/PH instructions to the letter. I have been looking into the powdered enzyms as another option. With all grain beer I'm used to mashing with a low amount of strike water and sparging. I am going to increase the amount of water in my mash tun to hopefully give more room and suspension to let everything move around freely. The corn does tend to form an impenetrable layer that liquids may not be penetrating.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by fizzix » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:05 pm

Bodhidan wrote:I am going to increase the amount of water in my mash tun to hopefully give more room and suspension to let everything move around freely. The corn does tend to form an impenetrable layer that liquids may not be penetrating.
Worth a try. I noticed that when I use to do corn in a double boiler. The boiler managed to keep the corn cooking, but the corn water just sat on top.
Otherwise, I'm bamboozled. Keep us posted.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Bodhidan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:23 pm

Regardless of my poor conversion rates, I have completed enough ferments that I now have 6.5 to 7 gallons of stripped product which I will toss into a spirit run with another 10 gallons of wash that have been fermenting this week.

I have some french and american oak which I will be putting a nice toast on and see how it tastes in a few months.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by dcpac » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:17 pm

I made my first mash of this today looking good so far.
29 DEC: 50lbs Ace Hi Pro cracked corn added to 28 gallons (1.8 per gallon) boiling water.
After adding the corn temp was in 180 range and PH was 6.3 adjusted with 1TB citric acid which gave a PH of 5.6, added HTL time 2000. Wrapped insulation around my barrel.
Fell asleep on accident with my dog and woke at 0300 on the 30th. Temp was exactly 148 (lucky) and PH was 6. adjusted with 1TB citric acid which gave a PH of 4.4, added SEBamyl-GL
0800 on the the 30th temp at 130, took insulation off and turned on a fan blowing at drum with the lid on. OG 1.051
Added yeast bomb
1530 adjusted PH to 4.6 and pitched 56 grams of rehydrated DADY, mash was at 190.
1800 already signs of fermentation

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by matt50702 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:12 pm

Hey guys. Been a while since I posted or commented here.

I attempted to make this recipe yesterday but it didnt give me a lot of fermentable sugars. My sg is about 1.028 at close to 4% potential. I dont have a ph tester yet, but I did try the recipe out anyways. Would it be possible to remove the corn, heat up the mash again, and attempt to get more starch out of the corn? Or just replace the corn? I did add a pound of gambrinus honey malt for additional flavor. Could that have caused my low conversion?

I used 10gal of water, 18.5lbs of cracked corn (not milled down any extra), and the 1lb of honey malt. Added 2tsp of the sebstar htl at 180. Stirred and let cool to 145 and then added 2tsp of the sebamyl gl. Let it cool after stirring again.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by fizzix » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:23 pm

Matt, I'll leave the "repair" part to more experienced members.
But grind your corn for any future recipes! I believe that's the problem.
I buy 56-lbs. of cracked corn and always run it all through a blender to make
cornmeal out of it and never had a weak Booner's. You simply aren't maximizing
the corn's potential leaving it whole.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by matt50702 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:41 pm

I'm planning on buying a grinder in the very near future. A guy here has a homemade one for sale in the Facebook marketplace for $10.

It is cracked corn, thought I typed that. I just didnt mill it down anymore than it was.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Oldvine Zin » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:34 pm

I have only used corn meal for this recipe and have had no problems with conversion. Cracked corn needs to be milled finer to maximize your conversion with this recipe.

hope that this helps
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by flyweed » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:29 pm

OVZ....I'm curious how you handle the "messiness" of the corn meal? do you ferment on the grains, or do you strain the liquid out and off the mush? I'd like to try corn meal, over the cracked corn, but hate the idea of the added mess. Would love to hear your process.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by MichiganCornhusker » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:52 pm

matt50702 wrote:My sg is about 1.028 at close to 4% potential. I dont have a ph tester yet, but I did try the recipe out anyways.
I know my response is a bit tardy here, but if you don't have a decent way to at least estimate pH you will be wasting your liquid enzymes.
The SebAmyl, especially, is very sensitive to pH, it simply won't work very well outside it's range. And if you didn't lower the pH between the HTL enzyme and the SebAmyl the pH was likely too high.

As for cracked corn vs. corn meal, I guess it just depends on how "casual" you want to be with this.
Yes, the meal might get you better conversion, but it is also easy to toss in a bit more cracked corn.

I remember when this recipe first came out and it was pretty ground breaking for showing all of us an accessible protocol for using the liquid enzymes.
There is a bit of a learning curve to use the high temp enzymes and the SebAmyl, but once mastered it really becomes a game changer for making corn heavy whiskeys.

If you use the enzymes according to spec, the high temp enzyme really tears up the starches in the corn.
I did a test early on and I remember that I didn't need to grind whole corn all the way to meal before I saw may conversions level off.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Oldvine Zin » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:05 am

flyweed wrote:OVZ....I'm curious how you handle the "messiness" of the corn meal? do you ferment on the grains, or do you strain the liquid out and off the mush? I'd like to try corn meal, over the cracked corn, but hate the idea of the added mess. Would love to hear your process.
It can be messy, my first try I had corn slop allover the place. Now I wait until the cap falls, siphon the clear off the top, then scoop out the slop into a 5 gal paint strainer bag a few scoops at a time in to the mop wringer , squeeze and repeat. Not very glamorous but it works.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Tummydoc » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:49 pm

A thumper works well for the slop, no scorch and you extract all the ethanol. No strain or press

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:33 pm

Tummydoc wrote:A thumper works well for the slop, no scorch and you extract all the ethanol. No strain or press
Ya still got to scoop the slop :)

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Durhommer » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:34 am

another bourbon underway with this method in mind
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by furious_george » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:50 am

Has anyone tried this recipe with flaked maize?

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Durhommer » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:46 am

im sure its been done seems like itd be a pain to laughter so id just leave it on the grains you use
maybe try using the hd google search itll come to be your best buddy
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by 30xs » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:25 pm

Decided to try this as my first all grain, and have a question. I started two barrels a last weekend. I squeezed and racked it into water bottles to settle out. It was pretty impressive to see a jug settling as the next was being filled. The wash in question checked at .992 FG. Racked off on Sunday morning. All 6 jugs looked to be settling nicely. I cracked the caps Monday evening to make sure there wasn’t any activity/pressure on the jugs and the last jug that I squeezed went crazy. The yeast began swirling, everything clouded, and a cap of some sort formed almost immediately? The yeast seems to be settling again, but still has an odd looking top. I’m including pictures of the bottle and cap.
AD2C7F0D-C1B9-4547-9B9C-2F14CA146B87.jpeg
317BC8E6-896F-4F60-A34A-0E59E3CA136E.jpeg
I have the cap resting on the top loosely to keep any activity from possibly building pressure.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:07 am

Well, I'm a bit bummed out about the results, however I'm sure I didn't see it exact.

I took 14 gallons of water, 25lbs of cracked corn from Murdoch's that I hand ground with drill, then ran it through my KitchenAid mill on the coarsest setting. Lots of flour ended created even on coarsest setting.

Water pH was 6.8 to begin. I couldn't believe that only a 1/4tsp of citric acid knocked my pH from 7.8 to 6.8 in 14 gallons. It's brand new Brew master that cost me $50 and it was calibrated.

Heated water to 202F here at 5800ft, split grains into two HD coolers, added 4.5ml ht alpha, it definitely was doing the job because it was very high viscosity.

Waited till dropped to 140 and added gluco amalyze per instructions on bottle (says it denatures over 140)
Woke up this morning, mixed it, took off the top from both evenly to fill the hydrometer glass holder...
1.046 @ 105°F, with correction at 60° being 1.053. so about 7%, which means I left at least 3% potential sugar and pretty much a crap conversion.

Fermenting on the grain, going to let it do it's thing, wring through sanitized mop bucket, throw corn back in and do a UJSSM batch as well, using dextrose. I am not a fan of white table sugar bite, even when inverting, it's still sharp.

Iodine test: color turned almost back to original color but with slightly grey tint. Appears to have converted well. I think the grain needs to be flour to maximize the extraction, but according to original recipe I've got it milled plenty.

I'm disappointed to say the least

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:27 am

:crazy: derp!
I didn't check the pH before adding gluco. Ugh.
I knew I should have gone back to check they original recipe. I'm betting I didn't get my pH low enough. Shucks

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:55 am

Finally running today. I squeezed through mop wringer and it's just not that big of a deal. I'm running it without letting it settle, so hopefully it doesn't scorch. There was a lot of flour after it was milled, but I do have a diffuser plate under my stainless steel kettle.

The flavor of the wash was dang sour but I didn't see any sign of infection. Not much in the way of flavor. We'll see how this shakes out. I'm going to keep a jar from the middle of the run, and likely go with a beer yeast next time if the flavor is minimal

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:31 am

No scorching, delicious, but I really need to dial in the efficiency. Hopefully it's a matter of pHing the gluco rest. I left at least 3% trapped

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by vernue » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:16 pm

OK - I have a mash that is just not fermenting. Here's what I did:

18 l water, 5 k. corn meal. Heated water (pH 7.2) to 200 F and dumped it on the corn, drill mixed it til smooth and covered it for 90 minutes. was at 180 +, added sebstar, drill mixed it till smooth and soupy, let sit covered for 90 minutes. added enough ice water to bring temps down to 155 (about a liter, maybe a little more), added citric acid to bring pH down to 4.6, added sebamyl, drill stirred. let it sit overnight, OG at 106, pitched bakers yeast. nothin happening. added more yeast. no joy. taste is more sour than sweet, but there's some sweet there too. added more sebamyl, nuthin.

any ideas about what i did wrong, and if the situation can be saved other than by dumping 4 k of sugar in there? I'd really prefer not to do that.

i have two identical buckets like this - one seems to be fermenting a little bit, but i mean a very little bit. the other is dead as the proverbial doornail.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Saltbush Bill » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:55 pm

Hope your not relying on bubbles from an air lock to tell you if its fermenting.

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by vernue » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:45 pm

Naw, I open it and look if the air lock isn't bubbling. Been fooled on that before.
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