Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

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dougjones31
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by dougjones31 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:21 pm

I just tried this....I boiled the rice for @ 30 mins then put it in the blender and blended it to a cream. Added enzymes in two steps adjusting PH between steps. Got a great conversion.

retlaw
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by retlaw » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:40 am

has anyone noticed a difference of using whole rice compared to cracking the rice first before boiling?
or whole rice compared to mashed cooked rice?

in other words if the rice is cooked long enough does it need to be cracked/mashed/chopped etc?

troublestylist
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by troublestylist » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:04 am

It seems unclear whether simple rice conversion is really possible or not. All this talk of natural amylase (koji) or artificial (added) acting at ambient temperatures at slow rates, but no one confirms running a sugarfree batch. Or whether the yeast balls include live yeast, or koji, or both. I even found references online to people not even cooking the rice first.

So, I did an experiment. I tried samples cooked and uncooked, with and without amylase. I put yeast balls in all of them (to provide koji and/or yeast). Also, a splash of sugar for starting food and a pinch of Beano.

Results: Not good. :)

None of the samples started fermenting after 3-4 days. Conclusion: The yeast balls have no active yeast. (Dead yeast as nutrient, or koji...possibly).

So, I added yeast. All started fermenting.

After 3-4 more days, the uncooked samples had mold growing in them and spelled harshly of toluene (paint thinner). Not sure if THIS was some sort of koji culture, but it wasn't anything I wanted to play with. ;)

The cooked samples (both of them) fermented pretty cleanly, but left a stack of rice in the bottom. I don't have iodine to check for starch, but I doubt I got much conversion.

Overall conclusion: Cooking is mandatory, and yeast balls are useless.

So, in my full batch run (going now), I boiled 5 lbs of rice (probably not long enough to fully cook) in some backset for acidity, threw in 5 lbs sugar, and let it rest overnight with amylase. In the morning, in went yeast, yeast balls, and Beano, topped up to 5-6 gallons. Fermentation is running smooth and slow (one burp every 7 seconds) which I hope is good for building up tolerance and giving time for whatever conversion will occur.

I'll let it go to the end and see what happens. Given the mass of the rice, I'm not sure what my abv should be before conversion. But I suspect the rest of the rice will end up eaten by ME and not the yeasties. ;)

shortbed454
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by shortbed454 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:37 pm

cant wait to hear how it turns out. im real interested in this recipe.

retlaw
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by retlaw » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:41 am

some rice facts,
that will effect your mash,

Due to different climates, soil characteristics and cultures, over 240,000 registered varieties of rice exist in the world. This variety leads to a wide range of rice starches with many different characteristics including: different starting gelatinization temperatures, textures, processing stabilities and viscosities.

Different types of rice have differing percentages of amylose. Long grain rices, which tend to stay more separate, are higher in amylose. Shorter grain rices, which tend to produce creamier and stickier rice are low in amylose and are more glycemic.

There are two types of starch: Amylose, and Amylopectin. Longer grain rice has 22 percent Amylose and 78 Amylopectin while medium/short grain rice has 18 percent Amylose and 82 percent Amylopectin. Relatively higher the Amylopectin, stickier is the texture. Note corn starch is 100% Amylose.

shortbed454
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by shortbed454 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:15 pm

i have 1 pound of malt barley left from some other mashes. how much rice can i convert with that?

troublestylist
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by troublestylist » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:22 pm

retlaw wrote:some rice facts,
that will effect your mash,

Due to different climates, soil characteristics and cultures, over 240,000 registered varieties of rice exist in the world. This variety leads to a wide range of rice starches with many different characteristics including: different starting gelatinization temperatures, textures, processing stabilities and viscosities.

Different types of rice have differing percentages of amylose. Long grain rices, which tend to stay more separate, are higher in amylose. Shorter grain rices, which tend to produce creamier and stickier rice are low in amylose and are more glycemic.

There are two types of starch: Amylose, and Amylopectin. Longer grain rice has 22 percent Amylose and 78 Amylopectin while medium/short grain rice has 18 percent Amylose and 82 percent Amylopectin. Relatively higher the Amylopectin, stickier is the texture. Note corn starch is 100% Amylose.
Good info, thanks. (Now you tell me...I bought sticky rice. ;))

But, based on those numbers, rice is more or less only 20% amylose. Will the amylopectin be converted? Or worse, will it result in high methanol content? I've read the pectins contribute to methanol. Maybe that's why sake gives me a hangover. :)

Some quick and dirty research implies that the amylopectin will be more or less converted, and it may not be the same pectin that creates methanol.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

cupcake +1
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by cupcake +1 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:37 am

Where can I find Alpha Amylase, check my home brew store, pharmacy and health food stores no one has it as a stand alone product,
Ant help would be greatly appreaciated

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:10 am

If I were to try this with just the rice, and add no sugar, how much rice per gallon should I use?

retlaw
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by retlaw » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:56 pm

cupcake +1 wrote:Where can I find Alpha Amylase, check my home brew store, pharmacy and health food stores no one has it as a stand alone product,
Ant help would be greatly appreaciated

i have that same problem to.


retlaw
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by retlaw » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:40 am

40 bucks in supplies, :thumbup:

50 bucks in shipping, :thumbdown:

don't you hate that?

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:19 pm

retlaw wrote:40 bucks in supplies, :thumbup:

50 bucks in shipping, :thumbdown:

don't you hate that?
What the hell did you order?? 50 in shipping!?

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:22 pm

Anyone have any idea on a grain bill for this if you were just using rice? I was thinking it'd be something like 2.5# of rice per gallon? And should the rice be rinsed before it is cooked, or just thrown right in?

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by crtbc » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:31 pm

is gluco amylase different from amylase??? and if so Do I need to buy both or will just amylase alone do the job?? do I need to add anything if I am not using glucoamylase??

Thanks

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:25 pm

Glucose amylase is a type of amylase. He uses both in the recipe, so use both

crtbc
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by crtbc » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:27 pm

After you have added the amylase, and since it is converting the starches to sugars, should it taste sweet?? (like when you add lactaid to milk, it is overwelmingly sweet)

Mine doesn't taste sweet

Dnderhead
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by Dnderhead » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:12 pm

"should it taste sweet?? "
yes ,you made something like unrefined corn syrup,,,or in this case rice syrup

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:05 am

If I am going to do this with no sugar about how much rice should I per gallon? I was thinking about 2.5#.

Dnderhead
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by Dnderhead » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:33 am

1 Lb of rice per gal=1.030 og--1.008FG----2.9 ABV
so 2lb=1.060 og--1.016 fg---5.9abv
2.5 lb=1.075 og--1.020 fg-- 7.35 abv
plus whatever from malt etc..
your mileage mite vary.

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:48 pm

May I ask where you got those figures from?

Dnderhead
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by Dnderhead » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:15 pm

beer mash calculator.

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Good idea, forgot they have rice in there! Sounds good I will shoot between 2.5 and 3 pounds.

crtbc
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by crtbc » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm

Started This yesterday and finished and put a lid on it today...

37ish gallons tap water
25 pounds sugar
16kg Rice (35 pounds)
1.5 ounces amylase (crosby and baker)
18 tablets beano
6 grams Vit C (since I use tap water, 1 gram per 5 gallons)
200 grams instant bulk yeast
Super mixed, spun, and aerated with morter mixer

This thing is fermenting HARD just within the first hour...holy cow.....

One question

Mixing in the cap (if one forms) vs letting it stand alone and do its thing....... <============= what is the consensus???

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:42 pm

How much water did you cook the rice with? I am thinking about doing something similar. I would definitely just let it sit

crtbc
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by crtbc » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:10 am

when I cooked the rice, I used 5 gallons water with 1.5 gallons rice (ended up having to do 3 cookings) put rice in @ boil, used mixer and mixed till rice was basically a solid mush, then added amylase, it thinned out, then added to fermenter to cool, added 3 cookings and let chill overnight and 1/2 the next day then added 15-20 gallons water then Vit c then bean-o, floated yeast on top for a short while then beat the ever living crap out of it with a mixer, seems to have turned out real well, I dont think there is much "rice" even left in the fermenter, just kinda white sweet smelling water and this morning my whole house smells like a bread factory :-)

MisterSteve124
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by MisterSteve124 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:46 pm

Very nice, I will probably do something very similar, good idea to mix the rice to a pulp, I'm sure it increases yield. Keep me posted, I'll let you know what I end up doing for my recipe

John Barleycorn
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by John Barleycorn » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:15 am

Dnderhead wrote:1 Lb of rice per gal=1.030 og--1.008FG----2.9 ABV
These numbers (from the calculator) match up pretty darn close with the SG measurement given in UR's original post.

Does anyone have any of their own actual SG measurements (_prior_ to adding sugar) that they can share? Please note if you followed the original process or if you did anything differently.

--JB

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by Tea Totaler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:23 pm

I am trying the rice with no sugar. 1.5 gallons rice and 4 gallons of water mixed with a paint mixer while cooking makes a 4 gallon ball of rubber-like glue.
I scooped out about a third of this mess and cooled to 160 with a jet of hose water (maybe almost a gallon) and pitched a teaspoon of alpha. An hour later, it was the consistency of pancake batter. I stirred in the rest of the rubbery goo and another teaspoon of alpha. Wrapped it in a blanket ( still at 160) and in an hour it was melted milkshake, with a little clear water on top. At this point there were no discernible "grains" of rice.
I vigorously mixed in a teaspoon of gluco and wrapped it in a blanket. In a half hour it tasted sweet so I built my starter of 1/2 cup mash, 1/2 cup water, a couple teaspoons of sugar, and a teaspoon of DADY.
Cooling of the mash went real slow. It got late. I pitched the very active starter this morning at 95 and aerated a little. An hour later and nothing. I aerated again and she caught. 12 hours later and it is nicely, but gently fermenting.

I modified a fermentor with a spigot and a bazooka tube hoping to avoid the problems I experienced with my all corn. Hoping I don't have to spend an evening hand wringing grain.

Those that are asking how much this and do I really need that, this is a long and detailed recipe development thread, read every post. Then do it the way you think best and post the results. Even a failed batch provides useful information...especially to us newbies.

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Post by Mulitpleg » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:42 pm

I just put down a batch.

About 10 litres at a time I cooked 14 kilos of rice in about 60 litres of water. Blended the rice when cooked to make a sludge. Added 6 tablespoons of Alpha Amalyase at 66C. Fermenter took about 36 hours to come down to 30C. Added 6 tablespoons of Gluco Amalyase, 6 and 2/3 kilos of sugar, 2 packs of EC-118 hydrated for 24 hours in sugary water. Then topped to approx 70 litres with cool water.

Fermenting away nicely. Planning to strip through my pot still then pull slowly through my column.

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