Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

[bcboyz86]

I've had that issue with my dunder smelling like fresh steak thrown on the grill before... But the rum itself always tastes awesome! I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Windy City]

First off thanks Pugi
I started my first wash Saturday following the recipe with exception of using dap instead of fertilizer and fancy instead of feed molasses. Clarified 2 gal molasses with 5 gal water (total 7 gal) to 180 deg. Heated up 4 pounds brown sugar with 2 gal water in separate pot to 180 deg. Made yeast bomb in another pot. Next morning woke up and all three pots were approx at 80 deg. Dumped yeast bomb,brown sugar into 15 gal demi-john then racked molasses on top added yeast. Took gravity reading and had to add 2 gal water (12 gal total) to bring down to 1.088 I did not compensate for using fancy. Aerated to approx 5 min with high speed drill and wort stirrer (paddle type). Put blow off tube in gal of Star-San and it started to bubble within 15 min and within an hour was going very strong. It is now 2 and a half days later and am down to about 1 bubble per second. I will have patience and let it finish but am excited to start this journey. The one question I have is the wash never built up a krauseen and all I have read everybody's ferment foams big.
I am not worried about the ferment just curious about not needing the mop

[wheresthereef]

First off thanks Pugi
I started my first wash Saturday following the recipe with exception of using dap instead of fertilizer and fancy instead of feed molasses. Clarified 2 gal molasses with 5 gal water (total 7 gal) to 180 deg. Heated up 4 pounds brown sugar with 2 gal water in separate pot to 180 deg. Made yeast bomb in another pot. Next morning woke up and all three pots were approx at 80 deg. Dumped yeast bomb,brown sugar into 15 gal demi-john then racked molasses on top added yeast. Took gravity reading and had to add 2 gal water (12 gal total) to bring down to 1.088 I did not compensate for using fancy. Aerated to approx 5 min with high speed drill and wort stirrer (paddle type). Put blow off tube in gal of Star-San and it started to bubble within 15 min and within an hour was going very strong. It is now 2 and a half days later and am down to about 1 bubble per second. I will have patience and let it finish but am excited to start this journey. The one question I have is the wash never built up a krauseen and all I have read everybody's ferment foams big.
I am not worried about the ferment just curious about not needing the mop

Mine bubbles and rolls like all hell, but I never get much foam on top either. I'm guessing it has something to do with where your maolasses comes from.

[tom sawyer]

I used a rum yeast I found at the LHBS. It was very low foaming and worked quickly. Used yeast nutrient and yeast energizer. My molasses was Granny something, a gallon along with 4lb of brown sugar.

I made my cuts conservatively and doctored my gallon of 80 proof up with some Belgian candi syrup, D90 and a little D180. Gives a good color and a complex dark fruit flavor. Also added raisins, a little pineaple juice and I cheated and used 1/2tsp of artificial rum flavoring. Probably didn't need it, the stuff had some flavor as it was.

This is awesome in a rum and diet. Had five drinks last night and no hangove rthis morning so I think my cuts went well.

Have another wash running now.

[bcboyz86]

I used to use a gallon of fancy per 5 gallon wash and found it was waaay too much flavor after the 6th gen. So this time I scaled it back to 1 gallon of fancy per 10 gallon wash and its turning out much much better. But I suppose its to the persons taste what is good or not. But a gallon of fancy is a TON of sugar if its close to the same I was using. The sugar content that was in my molasses was about 8lbs worth of sugars... .

[tom sawyer]

The one other thing I want to try, is to use some of my Belgian sour beer in a run. Since this stuf is fermented with Brettanomyces and lactobacillus, I think it will bring the flavors you'd find in a well-aged dunder pit. If you want to seed your dunder pit, get a bottle of a Belgian lambic or kriek and add the dregs. Drink the beer of course.

[bcboyz86]

I just got done doing a spirit run of this a different way and was pretty disappointed with the results. The first time I did it, I just kept the hearts and a little above and below for good measure and saved the rum oils. Didn't mix them in with the tails or heads. Did about 6 five gallon batches and did a spirit run later with all the hearts, rum oils, and some dunder for flavor. It turned out awesome and I had about 1.5 gallons of 175pf rum... This time I kept everything from heads to rum oils in carboys. It ended up being about 12 gallons of stripping runs. So I dumped all that and filled the rest of the boiler with dunder and did a slow spirit run.... It took 8 hrs I was going so slow. But this time after airing it out for 2 days, I only got 2 gallons of good stuff, but its only 140pf. And its not as good as the stuff I had made before. I did 10 more gallons of wash second time around and ended up with less good rum in the end... Should I not keep the hearts with the heads and tails anymore and do it like I did the first time?

[TOAD]

Somewhere back on page 29 it was recommended to me to put olive oil in my still to prevent boil overs. I did. It ruined several gallons of pugi rum. I could taste oil in it from heads to tails. Clean up of the boiler was a pain in the hind end. Being the type that dosnt give up i ran a few 1gal test batches of bird watchers double and tripple distilled with a small amount of oil in the first run. The taste wouldnt go away. I wouldnt recommend putting oil in a still to an enemy.

[LWTCS]

Somewhere back on page 29 it was recommended to me to put olive oil in my still to prevent boil overs. I did. It ruined several gallons of pugi rum. I could taste oil in it from heads to tails. Clean up of the boiler was a pain in the hind end. Being the type that dosnt give up i ran a few 1gal test batches of bird watchers double and tripple distilled with a small amount of oil in the first run. The taste wouldnt go away. I wouldnt recommend putting oil in a still to an enemy.

+1
Though I have never used any oil/butter and thus have no experience using,,,I recon a good recipe and charging your boiler with a commensurate amount of finished rum beer is a better way to render some quality rum.

Don't quite get that adding a slice of butter business to yer rum either...To each his own and certainly no offense to those that do fiddle with,,,,,butter and rum.

Anti foam techniques are separate and apart from quality control IMO.

[bcboyz86]

That is really weird. I've never had the oil flavor come through on any of my runs. Maybe it has something to do with the still type? I have a pretty tall reflux still, not a pot still.... So maybe the oil won't climb the collum as it would in a pot still? Also my rum is pretty dark in flavor so that might have been masking it? It does work awesome in my still to keep it from boiling up into the colum when I'm doing stripping runs... But it must be one of those "it works with MY washes, in MY still, the way I do it..." But that sucks your setup got all mucked up...

[Dnderhead]

"So maybe the oil won't climb the collum"
don't know about using a column still but we
used to call that stuff "backins" its what comes out after tales..its not oil its more like sweet or flavored water.or at least what iv had,some that did not have the best water used it to cut with.

[bcboyz86]

I just got done with a spirit run a little while ago, and it had a really bad after taste, that just lingers in the mouth forever...literally still can taste it an hr later. at first, thought I could wait it out and mask it with vanilla and sugar, but its not working. The taste it like an old battery(i've not tasted an old battery, but I'm assuming it would taste like the rum I just made) I've never had my stuff come out this bad before. It's a fairly new setup, but I soaked the whole colum in saltwater/vinager, did a saltwater vinager run, and a sacrificial run through it before I ran my rum wash... But I noticed there was a little bit of rust(the red kind, not green) inside the condenser on top. Can't think of how red rust would be there except maybe when I was grinding out the inside of the 3" used pipe(wire brush on a drill, cuz it was a used pipe.) Some steel from the brush got lodged in the crevices? But would that give the spirit run a metallic taste? I washed it out with a rag on a stick attached to a drill before the run. Or did I just go too wide on my cuts and tossed in some tails that shouldn't have been in there? Kinda leaning toward that idea since its a lot lower ABV than a previous batch...but i'm out of ideas besides toss all of the spirit back in the boiler with some dunder and re-run the whole batch and make better cuts? Anyone else have a similar problem and solution?

[Dnderhead]

has the still developed a patina?

[bcboyz86]

I thought it would.have by now...but maybe it hasn't? I've run waaaaay more volume through it than the first one I built, and I didn't have this issue before. But if that's the issue... Can I just run the same batch through over and over till there is a good layer developing? Like take the disstilate and just add it back into the dunder when it cools and run it again? Or does it need to be fresh everytime? Cuz I ran 60+ gallons of wash through there so far and don't wanna keep tossing money at it if I can just recycle the same stuff over and over to develope the patina.

[rad14701]

I thought it would.have by now...but maybe it hasn't? I've run waaaaay more volume through it than the first one I built, and I didn't have this issue before. But if that's the issue... Can I just run the same batch through over and over till there is a good layer developing? Like take the disstilate and just add it back into the dunder when it cools and run it again? Or does it need to be fresh everytime? Cuz I ran 60+ gallons of wash through there so far and don't wanna keep tossing money at it if I can just recycle the same stuff over and over to develope the patina.

While somewhat off topic I guess this can be addressed here, briefly... Forming a patina should only take several runs... Most of my still components attain at least a minor patina within six runs but I'm sure component sizing plays a part in how long a decent patina takes to form as well as the composition of the wash being run... However, that is just the interior patina... An external patina will also form as long as you don't seal the copper and my personal preference is to not seal the copper... Again, my copper usually starts attaining the external patina in that same six runs and I only rinse the copper with hot water and let it air dry after each run... No soap, no solvents, not scrubbing, no nothing...

[bcboyz86]

Yea, I've done 4 stripping runs and 1 spirit run besides the water/vinegar run and the sacrificial run. It's a 2" valved reflux with a keg boiler. So 60 gallons was only about 6 runs total... The outside looks good, the inside has an orange/reddish dust on the.inside of condensor. Just the top of the condensor though... Maybe there's not enough vapor getting that high in the tower the colum and condenser are about 6 and a half feet tall. When its on the keg its about an.inch from the ceiling... And I think I went a little overkill on the condensor its a 3" pipe almost 2 feet long and a double coil inside hooked up to a garden hose. I haven't ever seen vapor come out the top where as my smaller setup had a hard time keeping vapor in there.

[Windy City]

Again I have to thank Pugi & all the others on this site for all there insight.
It all ends up pretty simple if you just follow the reoccurring mantra of read read read!!
I now have approx 3 gal of rum spicing & aging. I modified the spice recipe by taking what I liked from Pugi
and Mash Rookies Daughters recipes. Had family over to tonight and even though its young everybody really
liked it. I made very tight cuts on heads and I originally worried I may have went approx 400 mil too deep
into tails it is flavoring up real nice & should age up real nice.
I can't thank all those that guide us on this site enough
Damn this is a great hobby

[johnsmith]

3) when you clarify the blackstrp and you take it off the sediment...you used double the water for 1 gallon of blackstrap... does those 2 gallons now take the place of that 1 original gallon of molassus.... ie in the original recipe it called for 2 gallons of blackstrap...if I clarified it do I now use 4 gallons of the clarified liquid or just the 2 gallons it originally called for

The 2 gallon resulting from clarifying the molasses should be broken down as 1 gallon of molasses and 1 gallon of water, not 2 gallons of (clarified) molasses.

I realize this is an old post, but I've been reading over the thread in preparation for trying this recipe.

I'm a bit confused by the question. crtbc says he's clearing 1 gal of blackstrap with 2 gal of water, which should resulting in 3 gal (not accounting for solids) of clarified liquid, not 2 gal. Yankee responded as though crtbc used 1 gal molasses and 1 gal water.

I'm guessing for the purposes of the recipe the clarified liquid should be treated as it's component parts i.e. 1g molasses and 2g of water, as opposed to viewing it as 3g of molasses?

Not having done this yet, I suppose it's possible that there's 1 gallon of solids left, in which case I understand why Yankee said to treat the liquid as equal parts molasses and water.

Can someone please help to clarify? Thanks!

[CH3CH2OH]

I posted this under another section

The bulk store sells molasses but from my calculations it works out to around $29 a gallon for fancy and $25 for a gallon of blackstrap

How does this price compare to what others are getting "human grade" molasses for?

[Shae]

I posted this under another section

The bulk store sells molasses but from my calculations it works out to around $29 a gallon for fancy and $25 for a gallon of blackstrap

How does this price compare to what others are getting "human grade" molasses for?

Considering I just went to Agway today and got 2 5-gallon pails for $27 each (after tax), with the contents listed as "pure cane molasses", I would look for a better deal. This recipe is designed to be run over and over to improve the flavor. With 2 gallons per run, $50 just for molasses is impractical. Do a little google searching for "feed molasses" with your general location and see what comes up nearby. You may be surprised.

[Shae]

Looks like Triple Crown molasses has some preservative, as my ferment is barely trickling along, despite following the recipe, yeast bomb and everything. I suppose as long as it ferments fully, slow is better than not at all.

[n0s4j]

very nice rum i distill only one time with pot still make a nice 65% rum drinkable strait ...but i diluate my to 50% very nice receipe ...
much better than sugar wash and its cost less

[Tipsy_09]

I enjoyed reading this forum.

[KDS111]

What is the best way to store the dunder?
How long will it be usable for?

[ecologico]

1. The still
I'm using a hillbilly flute. 25 gal boiler, electric controller. Any help, tricks, procedures using pugis rum with a flute still will be very helpful.

2. yeastbomb
Using DAP from ebay instead of 20-0-0 for the yeastbomb has a strong ammonia odor. It's that normal?

3. The wash ratios
got a 55 gal drum as a fermenter. Trying to make a 30 gal wash I multiplied by 3 the amount of each ingredient, but it doesn't make sense to use 3 yeastbombs, or 3 cups of yeast instead of one. So I add more water and dunder.
Is this ok?
6 gal molasses (one 6 gal pail)
12 lbs brown sugar
1 gal yeastbomb
13 gal water
10 gal dunder
1 cup yeast

for 25 gal wash
5 gal molasses (one 5 gal pail)
10 lbs brown sugar
1 gal yeastbomb
10 gal water
9 gal dunder
1 cup yeast

4. For how long or how many runs should remaining gallons of wash could be kept in the fermentor for a future wash?
Someone asked if there is a need to add new yeast for every wash, since there is already yeast as well as left over salts in the wash left in the fermentor; but I read and read this topic and found no answer.

Please advice

[bcboyz86]

I haven't been on here in a looking time. But when I do my big washes (~20gallons is big for me) I will sometimes toss the yeast cake or take the yeast cake slurry out of the fermentor and boil it. Then when I'm done running I will pour the Dunder back into the fermentor and add my sugar and molasses. The dunder will get it all dissolved all the sugars because it's hot enough. And then add just the amount of yeast you would for a regular batch, like a cup of bakers yeast or so. The old yeast cake ya boiled will be good nutrients, and ya can add some new DAP if ya want. (i ussually add a couple small scoops, maybe 1/8 cup per 20gallons...) but that's what works for me, if ya add too much yeast ya can kinda taste it sometimes if you back sweeten it with certain caramels and flavors(it's weird the yeast flavor comes out with some caramels) but that's the way I do it and it has worked out for me rather well. I just had some rum that has been sitting since Feb when I ran it, and it's pretty darn tasty and smooth...!

[BourbonStreet]

I finally tried this a few days ago. My ferments run pretty fast here, so I skipped the yeast bomb. I mixed the water, feed molasses, and light brown sugar, and heated it all up to dissolve the solids. I added a bit of DAP and yeast, and it was bubbling furiously a couple of hours later. It's been three days, and it's almost finished. It smells great.

[ecologico]

thanks bcboy. last week I make to washes, one with one cup of yeast and one yeastbmb, and other with 3 cups of yeast and 3 yeast bombs, the product outcome was almost the same quantity. I didnt found a difference in flavor, but more sweet the one with just one cup of yeast

so, if i will only use one gal of yeastbmb, then I am missing some gallons to complete 30 gallons, should I use water and dunder or just nothing?

Also, been searching for more than a year for a topic, directions, howtos, post, something, on making rum with a flute, the cuts, etc.. but all rum making posts I have found are using a potstill

[BourbonStreet]

I ran my wash, but the boiler puked. Got molasses in my heads. After that, I got some good hearts. I got the rum oils separated out, and they smell great! I can't wait to do the spirit run.

[bcboyz86]

Well the wash ya made that tastes sweet might not be done fermenting. When you toss in the yeast if you get a bunch of oxygen in the wash, the yeast you throw in will multiply untill there is no more oxygen left and it will start to make alcohol. So maybe if ya stirred oxygen back Into the wash for a day the yeast would multiply more and eat up more sugar. It's just a money saving tip, but not a time saving tip... But if you don't mind using the full amount of yeast per wash and it ends up fermenting out more dry I would go for it. but if your pinching pennies I would use less yeast and just wait for the wash to be totally fermented out. It will take longer, but will taste less yeasty too... The other reason your wash may taste sweet is if you kept the sugar amount you put in the same, and the volume was 1 gallon less liquid it would be a more sugar concintrated wash too. But for the most part more sugar=more alcohol... And if there is residual sugar in the wash it won't hurt anything. all that happened to mine that had a slightly sweet flavor was it had a slight burnt molasses/carmel flavor. It wasn't bad at all, but you could taste it in the rum. I liked it. Thought about tossing some sugar in right before I run the still next time...