Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

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Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:43 pm

I have been working on a simple recipe for a neutral sugar wash without a bunch of extra stuff in it to cause flavors,and this is it.Its real simple.
This is for a 6 gallon wash.
8 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
1 tsp of citric acid
1 tsp of DAP
1 tsp of gypsum{You can get this from a beermaking supplier}
A pinch of epsom salts{Less than 1/8 of a tsp}
1/4 cup of distillers yeast,or 1/2 cup of bakers yeast{sprinkled on top}
Dissolve your sugar in hot water and mix until its dissolved real good.
Add the DAP,gypsum, acid and epsom salts,and stir until its all dissolved.
Add this to your fermenter,and add enough cool water to make 6 gallons.
The starting SG should be 1070-1080SG.Dont go over 1080SG for best results.
Check the temp,and once its 95f or under,sprinkle the yeast on top.
After 15-20 minutes,give it a good stir to mix things up,and get some air mixed in.You can cover the fermenter with a cloth,or use an airlock.
Depending on the fermenting temp,this will work off in a week or two.
Dont rush it.Let it finish to dryness,and give it another week to clear before running it.
I potstill this wash.It is very neutral,and very clean.It will make a clean neutral,potstilled or refluxed.
By using a large amount of yeast,You dont have to add a bunch of extra neutrents and additives to get it to work,and the less stuff you add,the less it will influence flavors.
All you novice distillers using turbo yeast out there,Try this,and you will be done with turbos,carbon filtering,Etc.
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Postby Gimp » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:24 pm

Thanks for that wineo, I've got a BirdWatchers Wash on at the moment, so I'll try yours next.

One thing, whats DAP?
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Postby wineo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:26 pm

Diamonioum phospate.You can get it at any winemaking,or beermaking supplier.Its yeast neutrent.
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Postby new_moonshiner » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:52 pm

thanks wineo ..think I will give it a try as well.. I like the idea of no tomato paste myself..
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby paps » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:05 pm

Hello Wineo, just wanted to tell you I tried your sugar wash recipe from previous posts, started it 11 days ago. I followed it to the letter with the following exceptions:

-I used 8 large size red potatoes (the wife wanted to use the cooked ones for Italian potatoes salad, and yes it was delicious) :P
-½ cup Bakers yeast, boiled, and ½ cup Brewers yeast
-Sugar was light brown pure sugar cane crystals

My SG was 1.085 and ferment temp 76 F to 80 F and PH 4.1.

This is how it went:

Day 1 – 1.085 0%
Day 3 – 1.050 6.45 %
Day 5 – 1.030 7.095 %
Day 7 – 1.012 9.417 %
Day 9 – 1.002 10.707 %
Day 11 - 0.960 16.125 %

To calculate the ABV, I took the starting SG, subtract next days SG reading multiplied by 129 to get ABV.
ex. (1.085 - .960 = .125 X 129 = 16.125)

My question is, are my figures right or am I way off base, the ABV seems very high? If they are correct you have come with an award-winning recipe. I have done two BW’s washes and both took 28 to 31 day to finish with about 9 to10 % ABV.

I want to thank you in advance for all the info sharing you do on the form and please let me know if my figures are correct or have I been sampling my wares to much :lol:

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby pintoshine » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:54 pm

this link gives a great explanation of using the sg to calculate potential and the difference to calculate the alcohol content.
http://www.honeycreek.us/specfic_gravity_table.htm
according to their method .125 * 125 = 15.625 % abv.
But I would bet that the .960 was a bit off due to the alcohol.
1.085 should have only resulted in 11.3% abv.

http://us.mt.com/mt/ed/appEdStyle/Ethan ... 075181.jsp
this chart says 0.960 would have been about 24% abv. Without a corrected alcohol hydrometer and temperature corrections it is hard to calculate what is what.
Trust the expected yeild based on the starting sugar content / volume . It is almost always predictable.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:58 pm

It sounds high.A starting SG of 1085 should be more like 12% but no big deal.Let me know how it does when you distill it.It should taste like vodka.The plain recipe will be alot more neutral.Let it clear some before you run it. Heres a good reason why you need to clear these neutral washes thanks to Harry.This is from another post of his.


2. Furfural: This is mainly due to pyrolysis or 'burning' of proteins and unconverted starches compounds (think 'burnt whiskey'). It is always found in whisk(e)ys, particularly Scotch Malts. A second source of furfurals is from the thermal degradation (charring) of wood in barrel aging. If you go by the regulations for vodka of it being essentially a 'neutral' spirit devoid of all congeners (basically ethanol & water), then barrel aging and pyrolytic congeners are not supposed to be in a vodka at all.
Therefore you need to improve your wash filtering (remove all solids) and improve your starch conversion (if that is your substrate source) so that distilling heat does not create furfurals or other pyrolytics.


Slainte!
regards Harry

Thanks for your wisdom Harry!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby paps » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:26 am

Thanks for your replies, far be it from me to question the guys who know. But I am still in a quandary about the info from the parent site about “measuring alcohol content of the wash”
This is a quote from parent site – fermenting section:

Alcohol Content of the Wash

You can easily calculate the strength of your wash, if you know your starting & final specific gravities (SG) - measure these with a hydrometer. The % alcohol is (Starting - Final) x 129. eg: if your sugar/water mix of SG=1.120 drops to 0.980, then you have a wash with (1.120-0.980)x129=18.1%.

I just took readings using a pricey German hydrometer at 20C and used pinto's suggested formula (1.085 - .960 = 125 x 125 = 15.625%) and came up with 15.625%. Like you said wineo, don’t worry about it and give it a run and see what happens, it’s just that inquisitive minds want to know.

Image

Thanks again, paps

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MisterSteve124 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:27 am

Started this on Tuesday and it seems to be doing great, I plan on siphoning it into another container for it to clear even more once ferementation is complete. I'll let you know how it turns out, I can't wait.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby paps » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:01 pm

Me too, can’t wait. Mine has been sitting for 5 day now, tomorrow I have all day to myself so in she goes. I was going to through in some molasses back set but really want to see the results unencumbered. I will post the outcome.

Cheers, paps
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby EuroStiller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:22 am

Wineo

Excellent, another simple sugar wash! I will have to add it to the collection and try it soon! I thank you Sir! I've been using Birdwatcher's successfully, although I have tweaked it some. The tomato paste threw me from the beginning, LOL I do have two questions for you. I'm trying to understand how it comes to pass that you have included calcium sulphate CaSO4(gypsum) in this formula. I see the amount is minimal in 6 gallons. Is it do to some hard water issue, or are you using it in addition to the H9N2O4P (DAP) as an additional nutrient, or to counterbalance the harshness of the ammonium in the DAP on the yeast? Second question: Where do you draw your water from? I should say, are you using well water, spring water, distilled, etc. I have city water coming into the house; however, before it goes to most of the plumbing it goes through reverse osmosis filtration. While this is extremely nice, I don't know if it is good for making sugar washes. I also have access to a well, as my house is just that old. I did have the water tested a while back, came back ok. I would still boil it before I drank it! As far as other water goes, I watch the papers and see what’s on sale and stock up. I've been sticking to spring water or distilled water. I know water is a huge component in any good wash. Any pearls you can throw will be gladly accepted!

Thanks in Advance

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:37 am

Im using the city water supply.We had a brewery here for over 100 years so the water must be ok.
I use the gypsum to give the water a little hardness because the yeast likes the extra calsium ions.Ive tried it with and without it,and it works better with it in small amounts.I have found that the less stuff you put in a neutral wash,the better.Its just less stuff to add flavors.Its the most neutral wash that I can come up with.As with any neutral wash,make sure its good and cleared before running it.Having yeast in it will produce some esters.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MisterSteve124 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:11 pm

Whoops, totally forgot to adjust my hydrometer with the water around 100 degrees F and realized the SG was way too low and I added more sugar. Now after 5 days its only down to 1.060. Think it will still turn out ok?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:17 pm

It will take longer to finish,but should turn out ok.If its moving slow,add more yeast,but nothing else.Theres not much stuff in this recipe to cause flavors,so it should be fine,once its finished.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MisterSteve124 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:43 pm

ok sounds good I will add some more yeast if needed and I'll have to give it another try and get it right next time. Thanks
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby EuroStiller » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:43 am

Wineo

You should start charging consultation fees like I do, LOL. One more question for you on your wash. Compared to Birdwatcher's, is it a heavy fizzer/ fermenter or is like a turbo (which I have never used but only heard about)? Curious because I want to try your wash and I wanted to know if I can get away with a 6.5 Gallon carboy, or if I should break out the brewpail!
Sorry to be a pest! Yikes, lunch is almost over. I gotta get my posterior back to work!

Thanks in Advance!!!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:14 am

Just leave some headspace for 3-4 days so it doesnt foam over.Its pretty vigorious for the first 4 days.The bucket method is safer.My last one got dogs heads on it at about 3 days.They died down after 5 days,but My fermenter temp was 65f.Warmer temps may make it pretty active.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby EuroStiller » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Excellent. Thanks again! You know what a stickler I can be about precision sometimes. Apart from that, I'm still picking up this end of the art.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Husker » Tue May 06, 2008 5:25 am

What are peoples feelings about putting this one into tried/true. It sounds like people are having wonderful success with this recipe also. I do very few neutrals, so I have not run this one yet myself.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby paps » Tue May 06, 2008 7:19 am

Yes, yes, Husker, Wineo has a winner. I have my third wash going in as many weeks. His recipe is simple, clean, and predicable. I have been too busy to get my notes together and as soon as I do will post more details.

Wineo, thanks for everything, your recipe is now at the top of my list. :D :D :D :D

Cheers, paps
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Tue May 06, 2008 7:48 am

Husker,I was waiting till a few members ran it,and gave some reviews so we could all agree it was proven.I will leave it up to you guys.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Asohosy » Tue May 06, 2008 10:14 am

wineo

I had done something similar which is just water, sugar, yeast nutrients, and yeast. When done properly even the wash taste really good. I was tempted to drink it in a wine glass.

Just have one question:

Why do you add citric acid to lower the PH and then gypsum to raise the PH. Aren't those 2 ingredients added strictly to adjust PH or am I mistaken.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Tue May 06, 2008 12:19 pm

I use the citric to lower the ph,and use the gypsum to give the water a little hardness{calsium}because the yeast likes the stuff.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Asohosy » Tue May 06, 2008 12:56 pm

Thanks...

Cheap and easy, I like that!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Husker » Tue May 06, 2008 2:30 pm

wineo wrote:Husker,I was waiting till a few members ran it,and gave some reviews so we could all agree it was proven.I will leave it up to you guys.


I have been waiting also. Thus that is why it is still here in development forum. I posed the question about moving it, to hopefully solicit some responses from ppl who HAVE run this. Their successes or failures, and their overall view of this wash.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Tater » Tue May 06, 2008 2:59 pm

Husker wrote:
wineo wrote:Husker,I was waiting till a few members ran it,and gave some reviews so we could all agree it was proven.I will leave it up to you guys.


I have been waiting also. Thus that is why it is still here in development forum. I posed the question about moving it, to hopefully solicit some responses from ppl who HAVE run this. Their successes or failures, and their overall view of this wash.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MisterSteve124 » Wed May 07, 2008 5:03 pm

So would this be considered a vodka? Mine is still bubbling so I will probably run it in a week or two.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Husker » Wed May 07, 2008 5:42 pm

No, this is considered a sugar wash (and a minimal flavored sugar wash). It can be made into vodka with a still, and should make a good neutral vodka by what people have posted about it (I have no experience with it).

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby EuroStiller » Wed May 07, 2008 7:09 pm

Started mine on Sunday and its doig its thing as happy as can be :D
Which makes me very happy :D

I cleaned my reflux still on Sunay as well. Followed all the directions from the mother site on cleaning new eqipment. Worked out well. Finally going to start using the darn thing! So your wash will be the first true run I do using a reflux. Gigantic diffference from my alembic "pot" still! Like night and day!

I'm sure once it's done fermenting, it's gonna cook out nicely.
Many thanks again Wineo for this wash!

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby wineo » Wed May 07, 2008 8:43 pm

This wash is about as neutral as it gets,and I potstill it.It has very little taste and smell,even the forshots.
Me,and a friend have potstilled it up to 2 times and didnt go any farther because it didnt change much from the first run.It should be great for refluxing.
I plan on saving a bunch of it up this summer,and potstilling it 4 times,just for the hell of it.Its the cleanest thing I have ever had,so far.The quest continues. :lol:
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