Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[wineo]

Yes,the citric acid is just for PH adjustment.Lemon juice works,but will leave a little flavor.The citric wont.

[noobybooby]

What are the best ways to speed this fermentation? I won't mind lower ABV, just want to speed it up.

I have 17 liters going for 6 days now, it's still bubbling every 3-4 seconds, and is milky yellow throughout. I adjusted the recipe ingredients to 75% of the stated volumes to accommodate my smaller container, which is a plastic water carboy. I started with 1.055 sg, 5.6 ph. Oh, I did double the yeast after 2 days, because it was bubbling very slow, and I added the yeast at 29C(85F) because that is the air temperature.

[wineo]

It sounds like its going fine.You need to just let it do its thing,and let it clear.Clearing it completely makes a big difference in the finished product.Once the fermentation slows way down,wait for a week,and rack it to a clean container,making sure to splash it quite a bit,while racking,and make sure to leave the sedement behind when racking.It should clear pretty fast,once you have done this.

[noobybooby]

Thanks for the reply. I am always impatient, so I will have to sit on my hands for a while. I've never done a sugar fermentation before--are they always about this speed, or is this recipe designed to be slower ?

[rad14701]

Thanks for the reply. I am always impatient, so I will have to sit on my hands for a while. I've never done a sugar fermentation before--are they always about this speed, or is this recipe designed to be slower ?

The speed of any recipe is dependent on several factors... I always toss plenty of yeast and aerate well so the anaerobic phase kicks in with an overabundance of hungry yeast... It will take X amount of yeast to convert the sugar to ethanol and CO2 regardless of how much you start out with so starting with more should decrease fermentation time...

My sugar washes generally ferment for 36 hours to 10 days, depending on the amount of yeast pitched... I consider ferments longer than 10 days too slow for my liking but that's just me... If I could get them all to finish to dry in 36 hours I'd be ecstatic, but that's a bit unrealistic...

[noobybooby]

Right you are, 36 hours would also make me ecstatic. I'd settle for 72 hours though. For aerating, I just shake the carboy vigorously before adding. I did almost double the yeast in the recipe. But yeast is relatively cheap, so maybe I'll quadruple it next time--if this one ever stops! Do you think I need to do something else to aerate? Would a lot of extra yeast increase the settling time dramatically? I'm just looking at that milky carboy thinking, geez that'll take a long time to clear.

[rad14701]

Right you are, 36 hours would also make me ecstatic. I'd settle for 72 hours though. For aerating, I just shake the carboy vigorously before adding. I did almost double the yeast in the recipe. But yeast is relatively cheap, so maybe I'll quadruple it next time--if this one ever stops! Do you think I need to do something else to aerate? Would a lot of extra yeast increase the settling time dramatically? I'm just looking at that milky carboy thinking, geez that'll take a long time to clear.

I generally aerate every 10 - 15 minutes for at least an hour after pitching my yeast because once a boundary layer of CO2 builds above the wash there is no way for new O2 to enter... Aerating displaces the CO2 and introduces additional O2 into the wash, thus extending the aerobic phase and allowing more yeast to multiply before settling in for the anaerobic phase...

I usually only let my washes clear until the majority of the solids settle but don't wait until the wash is see-through clear... Other times, when I don't have time to run the still, the wash gets to clear a bit more... I pitch on the heavy side, about 3 - 4 tablespoons of bakers yeast per gallon, so clearing can take some time but not forever... As a rough guide, I try to let the wash clear for the same amount of time it took to ferment to completion... Therefore, a 3 day ferment would clear for 3 days, and then on the seventh day - miracles happen...

[noobybooby]

Excellent advice, thank you.
Are you just stirring to aerate, or do you bubble air into the wash?
That's the last question about this, I promise.*





*not really

[rad14701]

Excellent advice, thank you.
Are you just stirring to aerate, or do you bubble air into the wash?

For small vessels I shake and for larger ones I use a whisk made of heavy gauge copper wire which can also be mounted in a drill...

[dropping_planets]

I generally aerate every 10 - 15 minutes for at least an hour after pitching my yeast because once a boundary layer of CO2 builds above the wash there is no way for new O2 to enter... Aerating displaces the CO2 and introduces additional O2 into the wash, thus extending the aerobic phase and allowing more yeast to multiply before settling in for the anaerobic phase...

mr. rad....used this technique for the first time yesterday.....will this dramatically increase the time the wash takes to start producing CO2....?

[rad14701]

I generally aerate every 10 - 15 minutes for at least an hour after pitching my yeast because once a boundary layer of CO2 builds above the wash there is no way for new O2 to enter... Aerating displaces the CO2 and introduces additional O2 into the wash, thus extending the aerobic phase and allowing more yeast to multiply before settling in for the anaerobic phase...

mr. rad....used this technique for the first time yesterday.....will this dramatically increase the time the wash takes to start producing CO2....?

I've found that it speeds the entire process because the number of yeast are maximized sooner and then they deplete to O2 and progress through the subsequent phases sooner and quicker... It sure can't hurt... My washes are going like crazy by the time I install the airlock which bubbles like a machine gun... What I can attest to is that I don't get 36 hour ferments with bakers yeast without the extra aeration... Shortening aeration time can add days, not hours, to a ferment... That's been my recent experience, anyway...

[smeag]

My low ph adds weeks to the ferment. I've found adding the calcium carbonate to the tune of 3 tsp per ph level. My well water is 7.5, but after 2 days of ferment I check the ph and it is 3.1. I only added 1/4 tsp of food grade citric acid other than that the recipe was followed to the letter using 1/4 cup of distiller's yeast.
After adding calcium carbonate to raise ph to around 5 the wash speeds up (14 days/ without adjusting ph 30 days or more) .

Next time I wont use any citric. I don't understand why my ph drops so much using 7.5 well water.

I will aerate more next time pumping an air stone for 10 or 15 mins along with some stirring.

[skyline]

Right, I've got all the ingrediants for this so no more turbo washes. But I need to clarify a couple of things. How do you know where the fores finish and also where the tails start. Also when you do a 'stripping run' what do you mean by that and how do you do one, I will be using a reflux still. Is it necessary to do stripping run or can I just run it through my still. Sorry for what my be silly Q's but I have only done 1 run with turbos and only have the instructions that came with the stillspirits still.
Hopefull I have the correct nutriant. It is labled yeast nutriant salts nd contains acids(334, 330) Nutriants(518, 340, 342)

The only brewing shop I have close by has told me the best containers to store my stilled spirit in are plastic juice containers, you just need to watch the lids as they go a bit funny . He has also never heard of distillers yeast, probably because he wants to sell me all the turbo yeasts and sugar.

[HookLine]

Right, I've got all the ingrediants for this so no more turbo washes. But I need to clarify a couple of things. How do you know where the fores finish and also where the tails start.

Taste/smell, and temperature.

Also when you do a 'stripping run' what do you mean by that and how do you do one, I will be using a reflux still. Is it necessary to do stripping run or can I just run it through my still.

Stripping run (or low wines run) means just doing a fast separation of the alcohol and water, and collecting all the distillate output down to about 20% abv, or 98ºC vapour temp, in one container with no cuts. Then dilute the distillate down to around 40%, and re-run it more slowly for the spirit run, where you make your cuts.

Stripping runs are normally done with basic pot still heads, which can usually be interchanged with the tall reflux column on the same boiler. It is much better to have a pot still head, even of only for stripping runs, but you can also do stripping runs with a reflux still. Exactly how depends on what type of reflux design it is. IIRC yours is a CM. Worth asking kiwistiller about it, he is experienced on one of those stills.

Hopefull I have the correct nutriant. It is labled yeast nutriant salts nd contains acids(334, 330) Nutriants(518, 340, 342)

Not sure what materials those specific numbers are, but if it is yeast nutrient for alcohol brewing it should be fine. There are some good sugar wash recipes in the Tried & True recipes section, using common household ingredients.

The only brewing shop I have close by has told me the best containers to store my stilled spirit in are plastic juice containers, you just need to watch the lids as they go a bit funny . He has also never heard of distillers yeast, probably because he wants to sell me all the turbo yeasts and sugar.

Avoid him like the plague. We are your real stilling friends.

[skyline]

Just got my wash underway, starting SG of 1060 and I pitched the yeast t 28deg C. So now the waiting starts
It looks like I'll have to get some small glass jars to collect the distilled spirit. What do you guys use that is tall and slim enough get a reading on the alcohol guage of 100-200ml samples?

Cheers

[rad14701]

skyline, here in the US it's canning season so the stores are filled with various sized jars by the case lot of 12 - 24 depending on size...

[skyline]

Should this have a big frothy head on it. When I checked it the morning after I put it down it had frothed through the airlock. And now 2 days later It is still frothy and it is difficult to get an SG reading. I have given it a mixup the first morning but have left it alone since. The SG now reads approx 1040 and it is bubling every minute or so.

Cheers

[rad14701]

Should this have a big frothy head on it. When I checked it the morning after I put it down it had frothed through the airlock. And now 2 days later It is still frothy and it is difficult to get an SG reading. I have given it a mixup the first morning but have left it alone since. The SG now reads approx 1040 and it is bubling every minute or so.

Yes, most washes/mashes will form a head, or kraeusen, on top of them... How long it lasts depends on the recipe... You should be able to gently stir the head into the wash with a sterile stirrer... Another option is to take a sample and do your SG test with that using a smaller sterile container...

[vault13]

Just a note on this sugar wash.I started a new one tuesday night,but used more yeast.
I used 1 cup of bakers yeast in 6 gallons of 1070SG wash with the same amounts of everything else.It fermented to 1000Sg in 4 days and is past 990 today.Im going to rack it tuesday,and let it clear for a week.Im going to start another one with the same yeast.

Hey Wineo, I just put down my first ever washes to run through my still, with the first I followed your instructions to the letter, well as good as metric conversions allow anyway. They are both bubbling away nicely. The only difference is I ran my water through a carbon filter so that I have a standard to work from.
On the second wash I mimicked your using a cup of bakers yeast and I also added 70g (2 oz) more sugar and it is bubbling about 50% faster then the first where I used 1/2 a cup. How did you get on with using 1 cup? Any better? Interesting to note they both had and SG of 1060.

Thanks for the champion recipe, got some distillers yeast in the post direct from your homeland, see how that goes

[skyline]

This has been on for 2 weeks now and seems to be stuck at approx 992-994, should I give it another couple of days? I gave it a bit of a mix up yesterday.

[vault13]

This has been on for 2 weeks now and seems to be stuck at approx 992-994, should I give it another couple of days? I gave it a bit of a mix up yesterday.

I posted something similar to your question in the novice thread and the reply I got might help you

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=11453

[DrTorque]

Been quite a while...

I took a bit of a break from this hobby over the winter and spring for a number of reasons. I had a wheatgerm recipe settling for months, and I ran that a month or two ago. It was OK, but it still had too many off-scents and flavors. Since then, I ran this WPOSW recipe for the first time, and I ran it as closely as I could. I was only missing the pinch of epsom salt, because I didn't have any and I didn't want to hold up production. I made two 5 gallon batches.

They fermented for about two weeks, and they settled for about two weeks. I flew through the 2 stripping runs yesterday, then combined them, and watered it down to the 30-40 proof range. I wanted to add some baking soda, but the wife had just used up our last bit. Oh well, I ran it anyway.

It ran great - better than anything else I've tried. In retrospect, I imagine it ran so well because I was only dealing (mostly) with 2 substances - ethanol and water. I was pulling stuff off as high as 185 proof, and it stayed above 180 proof for the longest time - I was amazed. The best part - none of the acetate smell that's been in everything else I've made so far. I knew I was making something nice, even burying my nose in the high proof stuff gave me just the alcohol tingle - no other scents. The tails even smelled nice - with an earthy quality about it. I think I'm going to try some and maybe use a little for a touch of flavor.

I added some spring water to 80 proof and sampled some shots alongside some Ketel One that I recently bought. I'd say it's easily on par with that. Now I'd like to see how much better I can get it - I'll try adding some of those tails tonight.

Thanks Wineo - this stuff rocks. Not only is it good, it's also super easy and it runs the way I was hoping this hobby would turn out.

[bstinga]

Have yet to try this recipe but by all accounts is the bee's knees. Just wondering about vitamin B, I see there is none used and obviously works great without it. Would the addition of some help fermentation or is this an unnecessary extra which would add flavour - which of course this recipe is trying to minimise? Just though being a processed sugar wash there is probably very little of the 'goodness' of molasis. Just been reading some old info i had re Dr Cones yeast experiments and he is big on the old vitamin B.

Cheers.

[rad14701]

Have yet to try this recipe but by all accounts is the bee's knees. Just wondering about vitamin B, I see there is none used and obviously works great without it. Would the addition of some help fermentation or is this an unnecessary extra which would add flavour - which of course this recipe is trying to minimise? Just though being a processed sugar wash there is probably very little of the 'goodness' of molasis. Just been reading some old info i had re Dr Cones yeast experiments and he is big on the old vitamin B.

Cheers.

Adding B vitamins may very well help the fermentation process but shouldn't impart any flavor characteristics... You'll find that many recipes only list what ingredients it has taken to make for an efficient ferment... That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement, however... Give the B vitamins a try and report back if you are so inclined... Side by side batches with and without would help provide a proven comparison for all... That's how the craft, and recipes, progress...

[bstinga]

Yes, right you are. I will give a comparison a go like you suggest (I am out and about the next month but after that) and I'll report anything of interest. That is the beauty of this and similar sites, awesome for wineo and others to share these great recipes! Thanks.

My very quick and dirty look on the web just now suggests that brewers yeast is a good source of vitamin b and bakers yeast can infact rob you of vitamin b (when taken as suppliments, takes all sorts I guess). If this is in any way correct this may explain the difference between the quality of ferments reported earlier in this topic between bakers yeast and distillers yeast batch performance. Perhaps the active distillers yeast is poaching vitamin b from dead and lysed yeast cells to function more efficiently? Which suggests perhaps batches with bakers yeast would benefit most from the addition of a touch of B complex. Thinking out load - which normally ends in tears so sorry if this is complete rubbish.

[VicBill]

I add a dissolved multi-vitamin B tablet to my sugar washes. Every now and then I forget about them and fermentation is much slower. I can notice the difference within a couple of hours of starting. The funny thing is that adding the vitamin b 24+ hours later (cause I forgot) does not seem to speed up the fermentation.

VicBill

[rad14701]

I add a dissolved multi-vitamin B tablet to my sugar washes. Every now and then I forget about them and fermentation is much slower. I can notice the difference within a couple of hours of starting. The funny thing is that adding the vitamin b 24+ hours later (cause I forgot) does not seem to speed up the fermentation.

That is because the B vitamins are most important during the aerobic multiplication phase and help little during the anaerobic fermentation phase...

[Annolyx]

Hello all!

Read through this thread last night, and have to say.. Was saddened when i reached the 16th page! lol

Quick question if i may.

Looking for your opinions on the following. I was at the local supplier to get everything needed for this wash and...

Citric Acid.
----- They only had a Citric, Malic, and Tararic Blend. Will this be suitable?

Diammonium Phosphate
----- They had a Urea and DAP blend. The package states i should use 1 tsp per gallon.

I'm looking for the clean wash everyone else is going after, any thoughts on how these will effect the end result? Does 6tsp seem a little overkill to anyone else? Thanks for any replies.

[HookLine]

I'd avoid urea for distilling ferments. DAP is the way to go.

Plain, food grade citric acid is available at most supermarkets.

[Annolyx]

Was fraid you'd say that.

If only I had the same interest for shopping as i do for this hobby....

Anyways, Thank ya kindly sir.