Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

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Jafa5
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Jafa5 »

Pikey wrote:Friend of mine used to make (And drink) - "Turbo Cider" apple juice, sugar and Turbo yeast to boost alcohol content.

He seemed to like it 8)
First thing I ran through the still was an old cider that had gone too dry, came out a lovely liquor

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droo1966
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by droo1966 »

I’ve stopped using powdered Gypsum (dolomite) in my Wineo’s Plain Old Sugar Wash. I just collect my eggshells, then dry them in an oven and powder them down in a blender. Seems to work a treat!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Graggy »

Hi I use this wash a lot very easy. My question is can I put some corn meal in it for flavor? If so how much would you use? Or is there something else that could be added for flavor?
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dieselduo
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by dieselduo »

Craggy go over to the tried and true and try ujssm if you want some corn flavor
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Graggy »

Ok thanks
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Graggy »

Hi I Made a batch of this wash and it is still bubbling slow through my airlock. It’s been about three weeks. Should I let it go until it stops completely. I didn’t check the sg since it’s been running. I’ve made this several times but I don’t think I let it keep going this long. If it’s still bubbling a little is it still making alcohol?
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bilgriss
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by bilgriss »

Check the gravity. Otherwise you won't know if that residual activity is yeast working, offgassing, or some bacteria eating your alcohol.

Having said that, as the weather gets colder, you'll notice longer fermentation times. I usually switch to an ale yeast when the house is cooler. US-05 or Nottingham both like cool temperatures.
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Winebibber
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Winebibber »

bilgriss wrote:Having said that, as the weather gets colder, you'll notice longer fermentation times. I usually switch to an ale yeast when the house is cooler. US-05 or Nottingham both like cool temperatures.
I'm also experiencing the same problem. I'm using Wineos method since last six months successfully, but my fermentation is getting delayed in this winter season. Since I don't have a choice of varieties in yeast available here and I use only bakers yeast, can I compensate this with increased quantity of yeast per wash to speed up the fermentation?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by etoh100 »

hello. I need some advice. I got a new 26gal still and tried Wineos sugar wash. I increased the ratio of all contents for a total volume of 22 gallons, but our OG was only around 1.040, so we just added more sugar until we got the SG up to about 1.060, but the fermentation stalled at about 1.037 after a few days, anyhow. Here's our ingredient list we used for a 22 gal wash:
Ingredients:
29.33 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
3.66 tsp of citric acid
3.66 tsp of DAP
3.66 tsp of gypsum{You can get this from a beermaking supplier}
1/3 tsp of epsom salts
1 cup of DADY distillers yeast

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
StillerBoy
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

etoh100 wrote:but the fermentation stalled at about 1.037 after a few days,
You have an acidity stall.. have you checked the PH?

Plain sugar wash, such as this one, will become very acidic within 12 - 24 hours.. by adding calcium carbonate, it will re-activate itself..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
etoh100
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by etoh100 »

I actually didn't check the pH until after it stalled, but using the pH test strips I have, the "colors" on the strip don't look much different from about 4.0 to 6.0. I figured as long as we had the right ratio/amount of gypsum the pH would be ok. Do you think that adding all the "extra" sugar to get the SG up without adding more gypsum made it too acidic? Or won't the gypsum raise the pH that much? What is the "optimal" pH for DADY yeast? I though I ready it was about 4.0 - 4.5. Thanks for the suggestions.
StillerBoy
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

As I stated previously, you have an acidic stall.. your starting SG of 1.060 is very good and should give an 8 -9% abv result once completed..

The gypsum only provide some water hardness, which the yeast like, but do not provide any activity toward the PH fact.. the yeast activity (fermenting) is what causes the PH of the wash to become acidic, which all sugar wash are known for that, and that occurs within the first 12 -24 hours of starting the fermentation, after that the ph will be stable..

PH paper strips are not very good at indicating the ph levels of activity happening within the wash, unless you have the one which have narrower range.. a ph meter is required to give you a more accurate reading ( a 10 dollar one on ebay works fine with proper care)..

If your Ph of the wash drops down to a 3.5 range or below that, the yeast stop being active, which is what is called a stall.. to re-activate the yeast, the ph needs to be raised to 4.5 range.. you raise the ph by adding calcium carbonate to the wash.. on a 20 gal wash, you will need at least 12 - 15 tablespoons of to raise the Ph..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
etoh100
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by etoh100 »

Thanks for the help. I've already got a digital pH meter on the way. I'm also not sure about the hardness of the water. All the water we use is from a cold spring that runs off the side of a mountain, so I have no idea what the calcium, iron or other electrolyte or dissolved solid content is, but I will be checking its pH. I know it tastes pretty good right from the spring.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

etoh100 wrote:All the water we use is from a cold spring that runs off the side of a mountain,
That should be some very good water, and its probable there will be no need for any additional gypsum, if so, a tbsp would be ample..

I do this wash all the time, and it is one of best for neutral spirit run at 95% abv.. go light on the yeast, on 20 gal I would go about 150 grs... start your batch at an acidic level of 5.5 by lowering the PH with some citric acid ( go easy with the acid, as a little go a long way), and check the Ph at the 12th hr , and adjust for 4.5, and re-check at the 24th hr, then it should be stable after that..

Some use oyster shells, it does help some, but not enough to keep the Ph at a stable level at the start, being the first 24 hrs..

Save the trub/lee of the finish sugar wash, and cook it for 20 minutes, let settle for at least 24 hrs or more, then decant the top liquid off the sediment, then jar it and keep it the fridge.. add about 1 tsp per gallon on your next batch.. it will provide additional nutrients for the yeast..

My ferments out in 4 days, at day 6,rack into another fermenter, and let it clear some for 5 -7 days, then run it..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
etoh100
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by etoh100 »

I'm getting all my notes together and we're gonna get another fermentation going this weekend. I tested a jug of our spring water that's been sitting for a few weeks with our pool tester strips and it registered "0" on the hardness scale. Haven't gotten the digital pH tester yet to check the pH, but I'm assuming it's acidic since it's mostly rain run-off from a mountain that's not limestone.
Is there a calculator that will tell me how much calcium carbonate to add per volume to raise the pH a given amount?
Once we rack the wash into the still, can we just pour our next sugar water mixture right onto the yeast cake left in the fermenter for the next fermentation? If so, do we still need to add more nutrients? Or don't you suggest re-using the same yeast for subsequent fermentations?
Thanks for all the helpful advice. It seems the more I read, the more questions come up.
You said to go light on the yeast, but many of Wineo's directions seem to "overpitch"; up to a cup of dry yeast in only 6 gals. I always aerate the wash for about 45 minutes w/a stone, so I'm assuming I'm getting pretty good yeast growth, initially.
StillerBoy
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

etoh100 wrote:Once we rack the wash into the still, can we just pour our next sugar water mixture right onto the yeast cake left in the fermenter for the next fermentation?
Yes it can be done, but, I am not one who recommend doing so.. I recommend using the left over (trub/lee)as stated in the previous post, cooked and used as yeast nutrient.. in sugar wash, reusing your trub without proper cleaning of the yeast impart a favour to the next batch, which I done care for..
etoh100 wrote: It seems the more I read, the more questions come up.
More questions araises only because one has not taken the time to comprehend what the information read is stating, which come from lack of experience, both from reading and doing.. just slow down some and try to relate to all that is taking place with the construction of a sugar wash.. there's many area one has to take into consideration, water quality, amount of sugar, the nutrients and amount to use, the ph factor during the varies period of fermentation, the fermenting temperature both at start and during fermentation, and the yeast used.. each one needs to be understood..
etoh100 wrote:You said to go light on the yeast, but many of Wineo's directions seem to "overpitch"; up to a cup of dry yeast in only 6 gals.
Yes many state to use lots of yeast, in part because they are just repeating what they have read, without understanding of yeast behavior.. in a properly constructed wash, very little yeast is required per gallon..
etoh100 wrote: I always aerate the wash for about 45 minutes w/a stone,
That is another area that is not fully comprehended.. it is not required to aerate for the length of time you state.. a good stir of a minute or so is all that is required if starting the ferment using just dry yeast, and if you have made a starter, then no aeration is required..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by etoh100 »

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'll keep "reading and doing".
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by danny1202 »

So have been running this recipe for third time. First time stuck to recipe to it to the T. Wash start @ 1.060 finished at 1.000 Everything good. ***** 2nd time followed everything again except i decreased yeast (dady) but still more than package calls for. Wash start@1.060 but couldnt get to finish below 1.014 , it was done no bubbling no movement in bucket even with a stir. I thought this was attributed to using less yeast.Ran it but lost yield.. ***** 3rd run used exact recipe but with with more sugar to get wash to 1.080. This time i went back to using the required amount of yeast in recipe thinking that was why i couldnt get to 1.000 finish mark that happened in my second run. Well same thing happened 3rd run and couldnt get it to finish down to 1.000, stopped again at 1.014.. I tried adding some nutrients(DAP) in one bucket to restart but no luck. I didnt take initial PH readings before airlocking but i did take them after finished, result was 3.8 to 3.9.. I use good sealed buckets that all have band heaters that keep temp at 85 degrees. Any advice on how to get these to finish at 1.000 or less or what to check for next time? Thanks in advance..
badflash
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by badflash »

Sounds like a yeast issue. What yeast are you using?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by badflash »

If you want to re-use yeast it is best to rob some of the wort that is actively fermenting from the top. This yeast is active and healthy. The stuff at the bottom at the end is dead or dying.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by danny1202 »

i am using Dady distillers yeast...i am not worried about reusing yeast from previous washes..thanks
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

danny1202 wrote: 2nd time followed everything again except i decreased yeast (dady) but still more than package calls for. Wash start@1.060 but couldn't get to finish below 1.014
The issue is not with the yeast used.. you had a Ph issue.. you were somewhat lucky on your first run, but not on the second and third mainly due acidic level change, which will cause to stop fermenting earlier or even stall.. sugar wash are know for Ph issue..

This sugar wash will finish at 990 every time if done right..

Re-read what I wrote in reply to itch100 above.. then ask me what you do not understand..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Saltbush Bill »

badflash wrote:The stuff at the bottom at the end is dead or dying.
Yeasty critters are hardly little things ....the ones laying at the bottom of the fermenter are just as alive as all of the rest of them, they are just having a little sleep and a rest down there.
Scoop some up and put them in a new wash and see what happens.
DarkUtopia
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by DarkUtopia »

Hey guys, just made a wash with 4kg white Sugar, I cooked 35g fresh baker yeast and a ts of nutrient and added to the wash. 20 Liter water and I am on 1.076OG added at 25 Celsius 120 fresh baker yeast, fingers crossed

Started already to bubble!
Last edited by DarkUtopia on Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am from Austria. We use metric system!
StillerBoy
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by StillerBoy »

badflash wrote:The stuff at the bottom at the end is dead or dying.
I'm in agreement with Saltlbush..

It would be wise of you to research yeast behaviour, and how to culture it, as your statement is promotion misleading information..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by badflash »

It would be wise of you to research yeast behaviour, and how to culture it, as your statement is promotion misleading information..

Mars
Having been a beer brewer since 1981 and specializing in all grain brewing, this is not misleading. The yeast at the bottom may be alive, but the stuff at the top is active in the conditions later in the brewing process. This is where the most vigorous stuff is, not the stuff that has gone dormant. I am sure you are familiar with “Kräusening”. They don't dredge up the trub for that. If you want beer that settles out early, go for the stuff at the bottom.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Saltbush Bill »

badflash wrote:Having been a beer brewer since 1981 and specializing in all grain brewing, this is not misleading.
Telling people that the "The stuff at the bottom at the end is dead or dying" is completely misleading to newbies and anyone else for that matter. We are not making beer here, this is a distilling forum. The yeast left at the bottom of fermenters is used in many of the washes we make. UJSM just as an example. Yeast can and will stay alive and healthy at the bottom of a fermenter for a very long time in deed.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by badflash »

We already established that brewing for beer and brewing for distilling is not very different. Fermenting is fermenting. One you drink directly, the other you distill. I am not saying the stuff at the bottom won't work. I am saying that if you want to inoculate the next batch with the previous one, the active yeast is better. Brew any way you like. It is your brew. To say that yeast that has gone dormant is just as good as ones that are active is just as misleading.

If you save yeast by washing the trub you will find that a large portion is, in fact, dead. Yeast savers will also tell you never to save yeast from the secondary fermenter because the yeast is stressed. For distilling you usually don't use a secondary, but the same idea applies. Save active yeast, not sleepy yeast.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by zapata »

I know what you are saying is 90% true. 95% true for beer. There's just one problem.
I am saying that if you want to inoculate the next batch with the previous one, the active yeast is better.
Nope. Better by some measurements a scientist might make? Sure. Better in a practical manner for the home distiller? Not a chance. The logistics just don't work for most home distillers, when the wash is at high krausen, the fermenter is full. Most of us aren't in a production cycle that includes starting a new batch before the current wash is even done. Add to the fact that I give you a zero percent chance of tasting one of my spirits and accurately guessing if I pitched onto a yeast cake, krausened, or pitched a fresh starter. There just isn't really a "better" to it. Other than in theory, which as I mentioned, your theory is 100% correct. But pitching onto a yeast cake just flat out works fine.

I don't think anyone is being mislead, even beginners are capable of learning both theory and practicality.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by badflash »

Zapata, I am making fuel on a production cycle from waste bakery goods. It is very simple for me to inoculate the next batch from the previous batch. I get that for single batch brewers things might be different, and that using yeast sold for bread can produce flavors in your hooch that is great for "likker". Best is a relative term. I am trying to make cheap alcohol based on free feed stock. I want to maximize the alcohol through-put. I don't care how it tastes. I want quick and easy and continuous. Pitching one batch from the one I started a few days before if pretty easy. I have a never ending supply of sticky buns, glazed donuts and jelly filled stuff. I also have pigs happy to take what is left over.
$2 in yeast for a small batch is a non starter for me. Taking the foam off the last one and pitching the next works well until it spoils, then it is time for a fresh starter.
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