uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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punkin
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by punkin » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:00 pm

Might seem a silly question CM, but you are watering this stuff down to 40% before tasting aren't you?

Only ask cause it seems to me that i'm doing things very similar to you and don't have that problem at all.

My strips on ujsm start out at 68-70% and run down to 20% or under. I strip at 4-5 litres an hour.
My spirit run sits at 3 litres an hour.

Some actual cuts from straight corn ujsm as follows;

20l spirit run including feints (6th of april 08)

150ml 4shots @ 86% discarded

heads collected in .5l bottles...

5 bottles (2.5l) returned to feints.
6th bottle included when tasting next day.

hearts collected in 2l bottles

4 bottles collected for hearts (8l)

tails collected in .5 l bottles down to 58% and then run into feints jar down to 20%

Only the first jar used the next day (.5l at 67%)

Total was 9l at 81% (with PLENTY of flavour thank you) waterdown with 3l spring water to make 12l at 64%.

Never had a knocker complain about my ujsm yet.

I've learn't a little more about cuts since then, and i'll now collect down to 40% or so for sampling. I'll sample all of the tails as there will usually be one or even two jars in the early or middle tails that are unpallateable but a couplea jars after that will be the buisness.

Matty3241
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Matty3241 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:06 am

wow there is so much infomattion on this Mash it is way over wealming for a newbie lokie me aka novice if anyone can really simplyfi this for me that would be great. I have the orignal frementing recipe

For a 5 gallon mash:

5 gallons soft, filtered water.
7 lbs cracked corn. 6-8 pieces/kernel is the proper crack. If using bird feed, make sure it is perishable, or in other words is free of preservatives.
7 lbs of granulated sugar.
1 tbsp yeast (distillers yeast if available.)

but i would like to make a 25L UJSM and i codnt not undestand how to distill (and how much to take off for cuts) this wash for the life of me i do have a pot still if anyone can give me the basic instruction or full instruction from start to finish in the Newbie text (simple lol) that would be great

thanks heaps
cheers matty

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:48 am

Matty, the UJSM is (IMO) the most simple thing you can do in the distilling. You measure out the quantity of the contents and put them in your fermenter, when that gets done you put it in your still...oh damn, that's where the art comes in, now is the tricky part that no one here can tell you exactly how to do it. You can get theory and some pretty close estimates depending on your set up. The best thing you can do here is "do it" then see what you get, then do it again and see what you get after awhile you will come to understand some things, they may not be correct and they may be opposite of what they should be. Then you have a starting point to build on knowledge. I will give you a piece of advise from one Newbie to another, don't lock anything in stone in your mind right now except safety, safety, safety. Be smart and vigilant, but as far as the nuts and bolts of distilling go I gaurantee you'll get one or 2 cross threaded at first so don't lock it in, keep good notes and good hygiene practices. Read the parent site thoroughly, keeping in mind everything but especially things like chemical reactions and interactions and if you put this thing in your mash it'll kill you or poison you or do this or do that, but some of the entries are made by other human beings with a totally different rig than you've got, they aren't infallible. Get some experience to build on and tweek, stay with one mash with the same grain bill until you get something good and get it consistantly then move to something else. I'm sure there are others who agree with me and some who may not, but I wish I had this knowledge in the beginning. There's other things I'm sure you should know but they aren't coming to mind right now so maybe someone else can expound on them or these. Good luck, all the best.
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kullas
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by kullas » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:59 pm

Ihis stuff is great :D im on my 4th gen and the more i make the better it gets. this last run i thought i had messed up. was running and taisting as i went along and started going week way to early was good taste but week. i put my proof hydro in it and was at 140 proof. great stuff here

jcrawf
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jcrawf » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:06 pm

I just finished my 'sweet run' of ujsm and my ABV seems about right. The flavor, however, is unexpected. Its not harsh, even at 120 proof but the taste and smell really reminds me of Skoal chewing tabacco. I'm running a pot still with a 45 degree downward condensor. Is it possible that I'm just carrying too much flavor over? Would a second run tame it down a bit? I am planning on doing a sour mash with it, I just became impatient and wanted to try it.
As per Jesse's instructions, I'll be using all of it as feints for my sour run, just want to know if I'm on the right track.

CoopsOz
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by CoopsOz » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:06 pm

You are on the right track....the first gen is always too "corny" for me, the flavour settles down after a couple of generarations. Stick with it.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jcrawf » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:03 am

Good to know. Thanks Coops. This forum is a great resource for getting into the hobby.

punkin
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by punkin » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:35 am

On the other hand CC, it works just fine if you do 6 or 8 gens, save up enough spirit to last a while, then freeze some backset to start your new batch off next time.

Ps. save your feints too :wink:





Used to always have a copy of a Carlos Castenada book in my back pocket as a kid, helped me understand my journey as a teen/young man and the things i was experiencing.
I understood a lot of stuff in the books quite well and actually had further insights and understandings later on.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jim049707 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 am

Unle Jesse, used you sour mash recipe my first time out last year. I still have a gallon aging and am quite happy with the results. Can a person use the same sour mash technique with rye or wheat?

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by CoopsOz » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:49 pm

jim049707 wrote:Unle Jesse, used you sour mash recipe my first time out last year. I still have a gallon aging and am quite happy with the results. Can a person use the same sour mash technique with rye or wheat?

Although you asked UJ specifically, the answer is yes. Sugar is for alcohol and the grain is for flavour and yeast nutrients.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

frikz
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by frikz » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:40 pm

Just started my first 5 gallon batch of Uncle J's sour mash.

Do you guys ever wash or boil the corn before adding it in order to sterilize it? Didn't do it myself, but the question came up while mixing everything together cause it looked kind of messy ;)

Hawke
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hawke » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:02 pm

Frikz,
Some do, some don't.
Personally, I do rinse mine as the only cracked corn I can get has soy oil added. I heat some water to around 150*F, dump the corn in, then skim the oily foam and bits of cob off the top. Then run it through a strainer with a hot spray from the faucet. Have done it both ways, can't really tell a big difference in the outcome.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by frikz » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:35 pm

Measured the SG a minute ago and it's still around 1060 although I added the yeast 72 hours ago. Seems to be going very slowly, should I perhaps add more yeast? Started with 3.5 kg (~8 pounds) of sugar and an equal amount of corn for a total volume of 6 gallons and used 1 package (5 g) EC-1118. I think the mash smells allright, but it still tastes very sweet after 3 days and it doesn't bubble very fast (room temp around 18 deg C by the way). Would adding a decent amount of regular baker's yeast be a good idea?

Update: just added 18 grams of baker's yeast, I'll see how it turns out. Does the total amount of yeast, 23 g (18 g baker's + 5 g 1118), seem allright?

Aussie Beamophile
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Aussie Beamophile » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:47 pm

I have my fourth generation of UJSM fermenting at the moment.

It has been 75% corn, 25% malted barley, and 25% rolled rye from the start.

The first two ferments were 20L and the last two have been shifted into a 60L fermenter (thanks punkin for your help).

The second ferment was racked and distilled on the day my Great Niece was born so I did a "low and slow" run with ultra conservative cuts and ened up with about 1.5L of good hearts that are on charred oak. This will get bottled and put away soon for one of her milestone birthdays.

The second of the two 60L brews will be stripped tonight and tomorrow all the low wines feints etc will be loaded up for a spirit run. Woooooohoooooo finally something to drink.

I'll report back next week on my progress.

Cheers
I'm a simple man with a heart of gold in a complicated land..................
Jimmy Barnes

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by StabbyJoe » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:29 am

Were you sampling while typing? :lol:
Maybe you mean 75%, 25%, 25%?
Or maybe 75, 12.5, 12.5...

Aussie Beamophile
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Aussie Beamophile » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:35 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
and I think I laughed when someone else did that!
I'm a simple man with a heart of gold in a complicated land..................
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trthskr4
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:51 am

Aussie Beamophile wrote:I have my fourth generation of UJSM fermenting at the moment.

It has been 75% corn, 25% malted barley, and 25% rolled rye from the start.

Wow, 125% grain bill...Is that how you get a high gravity mash? :lol:

Frikz, the hydrometer on an UJSM is useless almost, there's just too much solids in the mash. I have tried to find a way to check it but haven't found one yet that's very accurate or reproducable.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.

punkin
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by punkin » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:48 am

frikz wrote:Measured the SG a minute ago and it's still around 1060 although I added the yeast 72 hours ago. Seems to be going very slowly, should I perhaps add more yeast? Started with 3.5 kg (~8 pounds) of sugar and an equal amount of corn for a total volume of 6 gallons and used 1 package (5 g) EC-1118. I think the mash smells allright, but it still tastes very sweet after 3 days and it doesn't bubble very fast (room temp around 18 deg C by the way). Would adding a decent amount of regular baker's yeast be a good idea?

Update: just added 18 grams of baker's yeast, I'll see how it turns out. Does the total amount of yeast, 23 g (18 g baker's + 5 g 1118), seem allright?
Wrap an electric blanket round it, wrap a regular blanket round that, and switch it to low or medium.

brewmaster
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by brewmaster » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:18 pm

My first generation UJSM has just finished fermenting and I am just about to rack into a 2nd fermenter to help with it settling before distilling it. After racking and while I am waiting for it to settle is it ok for me to fill up the first fermenter with water so the yeast won't die and leave it like that for a few days, or should you not wait that long before adding the backset, extra corn and sugar for the Second Fermentation?

Or am I better off just doing a stripping run now even though it hasn't settled yet? Since I am going to do a spirit run later do I have to worry about the "off flavours" you get when distilling when yeast is present in the still?

I have an internal heating element so I am a bit worried about potential burning/scorching in the still. Thanks

trthskr4
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:00 am

Put enough water in it to at least cover the grain bed. If it's warm where you are then I suggest running and adding backset within a day or 2 at the most otherwise you may get a hostile takeover of your wash by nasties. If its cold there this time of year and you can keep it at say 60*F or below it may be ok till the weekend. But get some backset and water in there fairly soon. Don't put the sugar in there until you get the backset and fill the fermenter up or you will stress your yeast with a gallon of water and all the sugar. I suggest saving twice the amount of backset from the strip and the next time you empty your fermenter you can heat that left over backset and add the sugar and immediately restart the fermentation. In essence I guess you really do 2 fermentations of the same generation each time but it will just give you more end product later and less chance for an infection.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.

brewmaster
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by brewmaster » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Thanks for the reply trthskr4. I did what you said and I am distilling it now.
trthskr4 wrote:I suggest saving twice the amount of backset from the strip and the next time you empty your fermenter you can heat that left over backset and add the sugar and immediately restart the fermentation. In essence I guess you really do 2 fermentations of the same generation each time but it will just give you more end product later and less chance for an infection.
Just wondering how you store the extra backset? Do you freeze it until you need it next or just keep it at room temp? Cheers

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by mbasketcase13 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:47 am

you can freeze it for long term storage, or keep it in the fridge for short term
remember the 7 p's
prior proper planning prevents piss poor
performance
semper fi

mumbles
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by mumbles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:00 am

I'm up to the 8th gen SM and its getting awesome reviews from everyone thats tried it :wink: can't go wrong really.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Gimp » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:28 pm

Trying the UJSSM for the first time.

First batch came through the still with plenty of flavour, very sweet tasting, the second is about to kick in within the fermenter.
So looking forward to some nice likker once its done.
thanks for the info fellas.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Gimp » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:28 pm

Hey guys.

Just thought I'd pop on and say, i'm giving the old UJSSM a go for the first time, I ran the first batch and got some corn flavour over also as above, it was sweet.
The next stage including backset is almost finished fermenting and nearly ready to run in the still.

I'm using a still spirits reflux still, the colum isn't really big and it doesn't have a great deal of packing, would this make a difference if I remove the packing? The still collets at around 93% Throughout the run.

Cheers

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:43 am

I'd remove the packing if it were me. I'd try to get it to run at under 80% at the start of the run.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.

Gimp
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Gimp » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:01 pm

Just so I'm on the safe side of life:

If I remove the packing for the UJSSM Run, do I need to change the way I make my cuts?
Also, I've never been able to get this still under 90%... Maybe pulling out the packing would help this?

trthskr4
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:33 pm

Most of your reflux comes from either packing or column condensors, if you have a condenser inside your column and can cut down the reflux via valve then do so. The packing is what gives the HETP value after that (I'm not a column runner but I think that's correct). Uncle Jessie ran this recipe in a detuned column if I'm not mistaken so it can be done and done well that way. Turn the heat up on the boiler also to speed up the run and collect if possible at a rate of about a pint every 10 minutes or so, that's where I do it now and come out with a pretty good product to me and everyone else says it's excellent product. That's if your condenser can keep up with it, don't let the steam out.

Your cuts will be wider or less condensed in that what you would normally get in a pint will be spread out more subtly over say 2 pints maybe less maybe more. I usually get about 50% of my run as hearts and I play it safe and cut down a pint on both ends of that and toss them back in on a tails run.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.

Gimp
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Gimp » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:07 pm

thanks for the heads up trthskr4

The still I have is pretty basic, there is no adjustment on the electric element, Just plug it in the wall and away it goes, the colum has a waterjacket around the outside, then just above that it goes to the condenser (External of the Colum)

I'll pull the packing out, the colum will still have some reflux because of the water jacket, but no packing. And I'll check the cuts like you said too.
Again Thank you.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by travis » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:19 pm

Hi, as a Turbo yeast user, please excuse me, however I am F*****g converted to UJSM. I followed the recipe, ”but” using Prestige WD yeast. (slow to start) F*****g good results, I harvested the yeast for my next batch, I took “2” litres of yeast sludge, added lemon juice & tomato paste. Added this to 30litres of 50/50 backset, water & UJSM & it set off like a house on fire, bubbling away rapid to a good finish, perfect through the “Still” to a good result.

This time I am going for a Vodka run, with the yeast sludge (2 litres) harvested again, with 50/50 backset/water, a tablespoon of bi-carb & 6kg of sugar to 30 litres, again it set off like a house on fire, as the yeast is performing so well should I add more sugar to boost the final SG? Or would I sacrifice quality?

Can’t wait to run this through the “Still”

Regards Travis
Frankenstill
“Still” learning as go along.

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