uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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SGB
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Mon May 04, 2020 4:43 am

OK I've been doing the washing and pre soak for a couple weeks now in two half batches and one full. Everything has been good ( OK I'm a total newbie so what I think is good could be total crap but so far we've been drinking all of it and I can't seem to save any of it so) Today I got 4 more 24liter fermenting container that are food safe, and don't smell like old tires. So I should be able to get more going. I figured out with the help of my daughters who are still in school the math ratio of grams per litres for a 24 liter container since it cannot effectively hold a full five gallon batch because of the displacement of the corn and sugar combined with 19litres of water would top off the bucket . So now I know what the per litre ratio of corn and sugar is since thankfully they happen to be the same @03.2k each per 19 K(litre) Thanx UJ!! For that simplicity!! So we came up with something close to 169 grams of sugar and corn per litre so now I can figure that into the bucket quantities.

I got a 30liter pot now and thanks to a comment from NZ Chris somewhere someplace I was able to find it without the aluminium rivets on the handles ( thank you for that bit of info, I had not ever even had ever thought aluminium rivets would be on handles of stainless steel pots).
So taking the above info into context, I guess I will just continue with the soaked/ wash batches and start 4 new batches with just chucked in corn now, and see what happens.
I will say this, and even being totally new at distilling and all, this recipe seems to be a home run every time. ,the first ones I did were rice wine distillates and they tasted very much like rice alcohol ( Baiju Ect, ) I did the bananas because we have ALOT of bananas and it was sweet and had banana flavor but complicated but both the rice and bananas were complicated in terms of the simplicity of this UJSSM method. I think I will stick with this for awhile, a full batch costs less than $5 in sugar and corn. Bananas are free but I don't think the success ratio will be the same. But they are free so I'll keep at them

Thanks a million everyone for all the helpful tips and directions
Last edited by SGB on Mon May 04, 2020 5:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill » Mon May 04, 2020 5:02 am

Keep at it and start getting some of that UJ aged either as white dog or on oak. It will just get better with age.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Mon May 04, 2020 5:28 am

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 5:02 am
Keep at it and start getting some of that UJ aged either as white dog or on oak. It will just get better with age.
:thumbup:

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Tummydoc » Mon May 04, 2020 7:30 am

SGB wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 1:35 am
Thank you for the info everyone.
But on a side note... Over here.. I'd recommend you prewash everything ...I dare not just dump it, with all the rat shit and bat shit and god knows what else is crawling around in those sacks of feed.
SGB, save yourself time and skip the pre-wash step. You aren't drinking the beer or even tasting it so infection isn't a concern and no bacterial toxin is going to come over in the distillate. Even with weevil infested grain you just throw it in. If the infestation is bad, you can kill them by placing your grain sack in the freezer or even better is to place your grain sack in a garbage can and use a blow off tube to direct the CO2 from a ferment onto the grain bag. It will suffocate your infestation.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Mon May 04, 2020 10:04 pm

That's some interesting science there! Yes, from now on, I'm not going to do any more pre washing, I will continue the batches that I started with the pre wash but now just add dry corn to them as they just keep going. All new batches will be made with dry corn, no more washing. ( I just didn't know before when I first started them )
Thanks again everyone! Great advice given!

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NZChris » Mon May 04, 2020 10:31 pm

My still is about the same size as yours, SGB, but I've never had any problems with keeping my drinks cabinet full plus making stock for aging. It's probably got something to do with my fermenter holding enough for four stripping runs worth of ferment :D

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Tue May 05, 2020 12:51 am

True that, that is why yesterday I bought 4 more 24 lt. Containers and will try to do a good rotation. I think also the excitement of successfully changing the weather pattern in getting this dry island some proper irrigation may have contributed to some excessive over watering in the garden!

Edit:
I think in all my stressing in the beginning of this process and washing the corn Ect. I had forgotten about my experiences as a teen growing up in Greece. I would help our neighbour Yorgos with his grape picking and wine making. The first time we were to stomp the grapes I took off my boots and dirty socks and asked about washing my feet. Ol Yorgos laughed at me and said, don't worry about it, it will make the wine better!

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by TDick » Tue May 05, 2020 1:16 pm

Tummydoc wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:30 am
Even with weevil infested grain you just throw it in.
I remember the first time I saw weevils in the bag, now screw it, in they go.

However, I recently bought diatomaceous earth for my dogs. It's food grade so I sprinkled some in the tote that has my grains in it.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Wed May 06, 2020 1:57 am

I have been making cuts to my low wine stripping runs and saving the heads and tails separately and saving the hearts. And am building up a considerable amount of
feints in the process. I've been doing this by taste and volume ratio But after reading where some say you add the tails from one batch to the next distillation run and others saying they don't make any cuts at all just add all of one low wine to another low wine until enough volume is made for spirit run.. I fear I'm doing this backwards or wrong and getting totally confused now.

I was under the impression that you only save the low wine Hearts and spirit run that and just do an all feints run later..
. At the beginning UJ states that you make your cuts during the first run ( cutting the stripping) by the second run you do the same thing, also, UJ says this is potable right out of the still ...save all the spirit run as good sippin whiskey

Did I miss something here? Are these first and second runs to be considered spirit runs after you have made a stripping run?.
After reading though so much stuff my head is spinning.
And now I'm starting to newbie second guess and over think everything..


So what I'm asking again is, do I cut stripping runs?
Do I put heads in a head jar and add the tails from run 1 to the pot with the run 2 and continue this process until enough volume is made for spirit run?
Or
Throw out only the foreshot, make no cuts to the stripping runs don't add anything to the beer in the pot for the consecutive stripping runs until enough volume from these strips is collected for a spirit run and then cut the hearts out , keep all feints together for an all feints run.
When I was young in Greece on the farm the old guys making Suma ( same as Grappa ) would only throw out the foreshot everything else went into the bottle. It was harsh, hot and strong. You could see the vapours rising from the glass.
But after reading through the threads here and looking at the cuts chart one can see that the heads carry the methanol and many here say they throw out all the heads while others will say the entire quantity is potable beyond the foreshot.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NZChris » Wed May 06, 2020 3:10 am

This:"
"Throw out only the foreshot, make no cuts to the stripping runs don't add anything to the beer in the pot for the consecutive stripping runs until enough volume from these strips is collected for a spirit run and then cut the hearts out , keep all feints together for an all feints run.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NZChris » Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 am

I soon get tired of doing one strip at a time, so upsize to three strips worth of ferment so that each ferment provides enough low wines for a spirit run.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill » Wed May 06, 2020 3:27 am

Different people do it different way....but in general you put all of the low wines heads hearts and tails into the spirit run.
I'm one of those weird people who run wash, low wines and all of the feints from the last run together in one spirit run.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Wed May 06, 2020 6:21 am

Thank you very much! This totally clears it up for me.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by IMALOSERSCUMBAG » Tue May 12, 2020 8:51 am

6th gen died. I have been cruising along every 4-5 or so days with great results. My 6th generation did not ferment. Nothing fermented and the mash was as sweet as could be after 5 days with the hydrometer saying I had no alcohol. My thought is that I must have put the backseat back in too hot and killed my yeast. My process was to take hot backset and mix the sugar and then wait for it to drop below 90. Been working fine. I must have misread the thermometer because I don't believe anything else could have killed this like that.

I added new yeast and more vitamin B thinking I could re-start. That did not work and I am curious to why that did not work?

Not end of the world because I'm running 2 gallon mashes and I got 5 generations out. Cleaned the bucket and started over.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by 6 Row Joe » Tue May 12, 2020 9:11 am

I did that once early on. I pour my hot backest in a pan and dissolve the sugar. Then I top off my ferment bucket to the proper level and add the backset last. The beer rarely get's over 100°.
I don't drink alcohol, I drink distilled spirits.
Therefore I'm not a alcoholic, I'm spiritual.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Tummydoc » Wed May 13, 2020 12:02 am

IMALOSERSCUMBAG wrote:6th gen died. I have been cruising along every 4-5 or so days with great results. My 6th generation did not ferment. Nothing fermented and the mash was as sweet as could be after 5 days with the hydrometer saying I had no alcohol. My thought is that I must have put the backseat back in too hot and killed my yeast. My process was to take hot backset and mix the sugar and then wait for it to drop below 90. Been working fine. I must have misread the thermometer because I don't believe anything else could have killed this like that.

I added new yeast and more vitamin B thinking I could re-start. That did not work and I am curious to why that did not work?

Not end of the world because I'm running 2 gallon mashes and I got 5 generations out. Cleaned the bucket and started over.
What was you pH? If you had only killed the initial yeast due to heat, it should have started when you repitched. My guess is you were too acidic, and that's correctable. Washing soda or swimming pool pH increaser (walmart pool chemical section) can be your friend. But they foam up so you need head space.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by IMALOSERSCUMBAG » Wed May 13, 2020 9:01 am

I didn't even think of pH. I'll bet that was it. Thanks. Off to find some pH strips.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Sat May 30, 2020 11:23 pm

Hello and thank you for all the great advice!
I'm doing my 3rd spirit run today.
This is what I've been doing. Everything seems good, tastes great but if I'm doing any mis steps or something can be done better, your input is greatly appreciated.
I have been letting the fermentation process go for 7 days then will do my stripping run and spirit run It's because I can only do this on Friday to Sunday
On the 7th day I draw two 18 litre washes and will divide into two back to back stripping runs. The first stripping run I do clean without adding anything and save that clean backset for adding sugar to. Then, I take all the tails from the previous spirit run and first stripping run and add them to my second strip run ( I do however save 3-4 litres of this fresh wash to add to my spirit run) .these two stripping runs take all day long. I take the backset from the first strip to add the sugar and back into the fermentation. The backset from the second strip run that I added the feints to, I throw out.
The next day or on Sunday I will do the spirit run. In which I get about 5.5 litres total 85% down to 20% -10%
Make my cuts and save tails for next week.

I've read here ALOT of people do different things ie. ( make Gin from UJSSM Heads) or Save heads and tails separately, together, add them all, or add only tails, do all tail run or all head tail run or just mix every feint from anything

I had read that it is standard practice to add tails continually to following runs which is why I started doing it.
Is it better to save these heads and tails to distill into a clear alcohol that one would flavor, such as schanps?

Now because I'm just starting out I don't have the years of experience to notice if by adding the feints to these runs is helping in flavor or just volume. Especially, that the flavor of the UJSM also is said to become better with time and the generations of wash and corn flavor. ( the flavor has significantly become better)
It does taste very good and traditional I just don't know if it's from the tails added or the old corn

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by DetroitDIY » Sun May 31, 2020 4:48 am

Hey there SGB, I've read the same plethora of thoughts you have about how people reuse (or don't) the cuts that don't make it into their final spirit. Here's what I've taken away from it all...

Wen running a POT STILL:
Dump (or make hand sanitizer, weed killer, tiki lamp oil) your foreshots
Save your heads separately form your tails in a large inert container for a neutral run in the future
Save your tails separately for that spirit type to add into the next spirit run for that spirit type (UJSM tails for UJSM sipirits, rum tails for rum spirits, etc.)

When running a REFLUX STILL:
Dump (or make hand sanitizer, weed killer, tiki lamp oil) your foreshots
Treat your heads as you do your foreshots, they're full of concentrated nasties and if you're running your reflux well, you won't get more out of them.
Save your tails separately for that spirit type to add into the next spirit run for that spirit type (UJSM tails for UJSM sipirits, rum tails for rum spirits, etc.)

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Sun May 31, 2020 6:29 pm

Thank you , I'm using a pot still, all clear now!

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:16 am

I've had some good results with some flash ageing with some local tropical red oak . I use thin chips that I toast in the oven for 15-20 min at 500 deg until the color changes. I've soaked the whiskey for a day, any longer seems to produce too much wood flavor then for a hour or two in a pinch of jasmine black tea. This seems to work quite well. I know it's quite unorthodox, but it passed the whiskey coke test in that it tasted exactly like a good whiskey coke even though I prefer it straight up.
IMG_20200611_210549.jpg
IMG_20200611_210618.jpg

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:21 am

IMG_20200611_210657.jpg
Wood after toasting

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:27 am

This i
This i
this is this final color. The flavor very smooth. However. This old #5 . The central core of the run..

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Bushman » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 am

I use a propane gas torch to char and re-char my wood chips, lot faster!

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SGB » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:05 am

Bushman wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 am
I use a propane gas torch to char and re-char my wood chips, lot faster!
Well. .. After the oven, I do use the torch to give one side a final char. I just don't don't have a picture of that process because my hands were full. .
In the end, better wood would be better. That's for sure. But for now it's OK. I'll continue to work on improving the process
Thank you very much everybody for all your help!!

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Snotskovl » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:20 am

Hey all i read to page 55 now and just startet my first one

I made 110 L and mixed som oats in it i made som other stuff before but this is crazy newer had any thing starting as a rocket like this its insane

I used40% bakset from another corn wash i made few weeks ago cant wait to get to gen 4 and 5

I love read all the stuff in here its a great forum

Back to reading guys

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:02 pm

My prediction is that if you keep using 40% backset your going to have real slow or stalled ferments in your future, 25% or even less backset is better. If you cut back to about 16L in 110 you should be able to go on indefinitely without adding anything else.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Snotskovl » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:48 pm

Thats true but in first 2 run its okay then turn it down and use cc if needed

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NZChris » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:53 pm

Snotskovl wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:48 pm
Thats true but in first 2 run its okay then turn it down and use cc if needed
Let us know how that works out for you.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Stillin-Hearts » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:41 pm

Running my 2nd gen tonight.

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