How I do a cooked rye mash

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Postby MisterSteve124 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:40 pm

One thing you could do for your mill is take the crank handle off and attach a drill to it. Thats what they do at the brewing store near me. I wouldn't run it too fast though.
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Postby violentblue » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:06 am

this should be stikied

what mix if malted/unmalted did you do?

I'm wanting to do a rye wiskey for my granddad, but I'm a litte hesitant to malt my own rye, thinking of using a barley malt instaed, think this'll change the flavor much?
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Postby OldManP » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:28 pm

i was wondering the same thing?? Can you go buy malted rye or do you have to malt it yourself like mentioned in the previous post.

I know there are many discussions about malting it yourself---But what is the proportions you suggest, and what about malted barley?
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Postby gs_moonshine » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:55 am

I have seen malted rye at the homebrew stores and online. I'm just wondering if you could use rye flakes and if the taste between the two would be different.
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Postby theholymackerel » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:58 am

gs_moonshine wrote: I'm just wondering if you could use rye flakes and if the taste between the two would be different.


I've only used unmalted rye to make mashes to distill, but brewin' beer I've used both. I noticed the unmalted rye had a bit spicyer flavour.
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sure

Postby Uncle Jesse » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:30 am

you can use rye flakes, they work pretty well but you'll get a thicker mash which may be harder to drain.
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Postby ER70S-2 » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:34 pm

I picked up a bag of malted rye to try this recipe out. If I'm understanding correctly you didn't ferment it with the rye in the wash, is this correct? Is there any advantages (flavour) to leaving the rye in the wash while fermenting? If I'm reading correctly you found it easier to seperate before fementing.
Could you use the spent or used rye from this recipe and make a rye UJSM and do a sugar wash with the used rye, sugar and water? Just trying to think of something practical to do with the spent rye after cooking?
Thanks
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby goinbroke2 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:45 am

So, I do a cooked mash and after the dye test proves everything is converted, I get 9% for example. At that point (before pitching yeast) can I add sugar to bring it up to 12-14% then pitch yeast?

I'm assuming yes but not sure if there is a conflict with natual sugar and converted etc.

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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby violentblue » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:41 pm

UJ
You said that fermenting it on the grain has an effect on the flavor. in what way is the flavor changed?
I'm willing to deal with the mess and extra work if the results will warrant it.
also I noticed that you weren't cooking the grain first, wouldn't boiling it for a good hour or two first make for a better conversion?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby violentblue » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:01 pm

ok I reread the post, you had mixed your malted and unmalted grain, boiling it would kill the enzymes for conversion.
but If I were adding enzymes rather than malt, would boiling the grain be beneficial?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby King Of Hearts » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:45 pm

Great info UJ, thanks. I've read that Canadian rye whiskey makers first do a beta-glucan rest at 95 degrees for 30 mins. This will dissolve the gums in the rye so it's not as thick. From there they raise the mash to 149 degrees for a 1 hr starch conversion. They then raise to 180 degrees for a mashout to stop conversion, transfer the mash to the fermenters and cool to pitching temp. You can read The Alcohol Textbook here:

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... 20Listings

I plan to add 2 lbs of rice hulls with the malt to aid in the separation of the beer from the malt. I am also curious to know if fermenting on the grain is worth the added effort. Maybe with the rice hulls it might be easier to separate the beer from the grains?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:24 pm

i like fermenting off the grain,seems that i have a cleaner product. maybe old habits just die hard.then having my own way of doing it, that came about doing corn/maze.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby rubber duck » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm

I do my rye on grain and I like the results. I also do my beta rest a little higher 105f. I've never really thought about doing it off grain might look into it.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby King Of Hearts » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:40 am

Dnderhead wrote:i like fermenting off the grain,seems that i have a cleaner product. maybe old habits just die hard.then having my own way of doing it, that came about doing corn/maze.


Would boiling for 15 mins with Irish moss to clear it and then force cool help?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:09 am

I do not clear as you would beer/wine . I just let the grains fall. removing haze is not necessary.
I also sparg or rinse the grains which I do not believe you could do if you used a clearing agent.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Frito » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:47 pm

A little late to the party here, but I read somewhere in here that distillers don't do a sparge. Why not? Seems like a little sparge would be helpful to wash out any residual sugars in the mash, no?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:25 am

sparg dilutes the beer if doing off grain.this does not bother beer brewers as they boil after.
so after making mash just put hot water into the mash pot then drain this off and use this to
make the next mash with.this way you git the sugars with out diluting or boiling.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Frito » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:36 am

ahhhh, clever.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby j1gsaw » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:06 pm

I did a 100% rye all grain beer a while ago, jee it was painful, hardly sparged. Ended up with a 0G of 1040 for a 20L batch, used a weizen yeast to ferment out. Best beer i have made, so smoothe and silky. I do BIAB though, (brew in a bag) so i can contain the grains easier. Will be mashing 5kg rye/ 1.7kg maize / 1kg ale malt to make a bourbon soon, cant wait.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Im gone » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:12 am

Epic fail for me.

First let me say that this is not my first rodeo when it comes to mashing grain. I am an all grain beer brewer too.

Was going to do a 10 gallon total batch, but had to split it in 2 because of my cooler size. Mashed ~12 lbs of malted Rye with ~6 gallon of water at 150 degrees. I got conversion based on iodine test, but the whole mash was so gelatinous that it was almost impossible to run much water off, and that water that did run off had a ridiculously low SG...

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I'll need to identify it prior to trying a 100 rye malt batch again.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:12 am

did you do a step mash? rye/wheat/oats the beta glucanase rest is important.longer than what is recommended for beer.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Im gone » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:44 am

Dnderhead wrote:did you do a step mash? rye/wheat/oats the beta glucanase rest is important.longer than what is recommended for beer.


I did not, and I will if I ever attempt it again.

However - I am unsure how Uncle Jesse pulled it off, because he also did not step mash... unless I missed something.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby mbz250sl » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:26 pm

ok - having some good success now with the NCHooch recipe and just itching to do a rye recipe - still learning - if i understand this recipe correctly, its simply 20 lbs of rye, 12 gallons of water and yeast - is this correct? someone mentioned adding some sugar to boost the yield - what can I expect as a yield without any sugar based on the recipe above -- thanks in advance for the reponses
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby nezer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:24 am

mbz250sl wrote:ok - having some good success now with the NCHooch recipe and just itching to do a rye recipe - still learning - if i understand this recipe correctly, its simply 20 lbs of rye, 12 gallons of water and yeast - is this correct? someone mentioned adding some sugar to boost the yield - what can I expect as a yield without any sugar based on the recipe above -- thanks in advance for the reponses

I'm new here but I believe the yield would be dependent on the starch content of the malted rye and the efficiency of the conversion in your mashing process. Perhaps those with experience can offer edumacated guesstimates but the best way to predict yield is by using your hydrometer. If the SG is too low then I suppose you could add sugar to bring it up and bring up yield but you will also be changing the flavor of the final product as well.

That said I really am a noob and don't know what I'm talking about so I'll let the experts confirm this.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Frito » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:58 am

I have a question! I was trying some 100% rye mashes out. I did 6 of them with increasingly better results. The first bag of rye I purchased was from an online homebrew supply store and it was labeled as "rye malt". Being a homebrewer, I took this to mean this was malted rye, i.e. the grain also contained the proteins and enzymes needed for starch conversion. Just to be safe, I had some Alpha- abd Gluco-amylase on hand just in case I wasn't getting any conversion. Basically, what I found was about zero conversion when we used the "rye malt" alone. I had to add the enzymes. When I did this, I could see conversion was happening via my hydrometer/refractometer readings.

So my question is this: Is "rye malt" actually malted rye like "barley malt" is malted barley? Or is "rye malt" just a term they use like all "malt" grains will go into your beer - like malt is a general term?

ultimately, I was using 13lbs of rye ( this was for a 5 gallon batch). The grind is important too. It need to be ground smaller than what a brew supply place will grind the rye since in brewing you just use it mostly for flavor. You don't want it as fine as a meal, though. I heated about 7.5 gallons of water to boiling and added the grain and steeped that to soften up the grains. As the temperatures dropped to the appropriate temperatures to add the enzymes, I'd add about 2 tsp of alpha-amylase and then 2 tsp of gluco-amylase. I picked up some whiskey yeast from milehidistilling which is supposed to be similar to the prestige stuff. When at room temp, I separated the mash into 2 buckets each lined with a grain bag. Then I sprinkled the yeast onto yeast bucket (I did this in separate buckets since I don't have a large enough fermentor for doing it all in one). I got close to what I was calculated for my yield. I was shooting for 8%abv and I got close to that. It's a bit harder to tell total final abv when you're fermenting on the grain since it will continue to convert starches to sugars during the fermentation, but just going with starting and ending gravity, we were about 7.5% so I guesstimated we made it to at least 8%.

anyway, this was my recent experience with rye mashes. Very difficult in my opinion compared to regular malted barley mashes.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:29 am

Rye Malt

Lovibond 3.7

Flavor ..spicy rye

Unique Characteristics/Applications

DP 105. Rye Malt isn't just for rye beer styles. Although brewing a traditional rye beer is exceptionally rewarding, try adding Rye Malt to light- and medium-colored and flavored beers for complexity. Or fire up your new distillery and use it to make a single malt whiskey. """

this is from briess,its rather light in enzymes,I beleve its because it has been kilned (dried with heat.)
looking at this Id say it whould convert but take a rather long time,probably several hours?
if you use "my sparging" way then you can grind finer more like a coarse ground flour,as i dont use a false bottom.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Ghost » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:03 am

Im bumping this thread to see if any modification have been made - I know its hard to expand on perfection but this one has my full attention. The only piece of the puzzle is finding a small grain mill - any ideas other that finding one of these lost relics? I am sure there are dozens scattered across the hills of North Ga in old barns but that aint helping my search!

Blender sounds so ..... cold?!
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Dnderhead » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:02 pm

a beer roller mill will work with "soft" grains but not for hard grain like corn/maze.
a hammer mill works for anything,,possibly a leaf mulcher ?with a diferant screen?
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Ghost » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:36 am

I actually found some on amazon pretty cheap and they look sturdy enough to do the job. This is gonna be fun.
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Re: How I do a cooked rye mash

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:36 am

Ok so a little update - more like notes for me in the future so sorry for bumping this thread so much! I went to the home brew shop and low and behold he had a commercial grain mill! He knows I run a still so when explaining I needed the malted rye cracked a little finer he understood and he set it all up and cracked the rye - though I have made some slight modifications to my recipe but doubt I will see much difference in it.

So I am starting with this - 15 lbs of cracked malted rye and 5 lbs of cracked malted 6 row malt. 20lbs of grain total.

Now my next problem is the BOP, I only have a 4 gallon pot and cant find a true BOP right now. Though I have plans on getting another keg and and having it converted to a BOP. I wont have this issue in the near future.

The recipe calls for 20 lbs of grain mashed - so I am going to split it all in half so it will be managable and mash in a 8 gallon cooler. I worked it all out in my head and made account the room for the grains so I should be ok - we will see.

The biggest concern I have now is if I want to step rest or just bring it up like UJ did and mash it like that. I will re-read this thread again for the what seems like the millionth time and then forge ahead into making a "true mash" instead of a wash. Wish me luck - there is a certain saftisfaction in pushing the envelope and stepping outside the comfort zones you are use to. Thanks in advance to all who have posted up the information that has gotten me a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ways!
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