All Bran Recipe

[still_stirrin]

... looking over my notes did I seem a little light on the Yeast and Cereal?

Rad will chime in here I'm sure.

But my thoughts are that you cereal is fine. The cereal will provide nutrients and some buffering of the pH. The thing I note is that your cereal is still heavily flaked. If you'd make it a powder before adding to the ferments, it would help the process by exposing more of the grains' carbohydrates to the ferment.

And the yeast will bud (reproduce) until the required density (population) is reached. It does require aeration for this to occur as the budding phase is aerobic, not anaerobic like fermentation. Proper aeration is very important if you do underpitch the yeast. If I were you, I would focus more on getting enough oxygen into the wash before pitching the yeast. Your airstone with filtered air would be advisable especially with the size of you ferments....it wouldn't hurt.
ss

[C2H5O5]

... looking over my notes did I seem a little light on the Yeast and Cereal?

Rad will chime in here I'm sure.

But my thoughts are that you cereal is fine. The cereal will provide nutrients and some buffering of the pH. The thing I note is that your cereal is still heavily flaked. If you'd make it a powder before adding to the ferments, it would help the process by exposing more of the grains' carbohydrates to the ferment.

And the yeast will bud (reproduce) until the required density (population) is reached. It does require aeration for this to occur as the budding phase is aerobic, not anaerobic like fermentation. Proper aeration is very important if you do underpitch the yeast. If I were you, I would focus more on getting enough oxygen into the wash before pitching the yeast. Your airstone with filtered air would be advisable especially with the size of you ferments....it wouldn't hurt.
ss

OK I'll blend up the cereal.
I aerate with an immersion blender now, but will try the stone, how does one filter the air?

[still_stirrin]

...I aerate with an immersion blender now, but will try the stone, how does one filter the air?

Something like this...http://www.petguys.com/penn-plax-check- ... aQodlaEBLw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[C2H5O5]

...I aerate with an immersion blender now, but will try the stone, how does one filter the air?

Something like this...http://www.petguys.com/penn-plax-check- ... aQodlaEBLw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That seems simple enough, I was gonna do a thumper with H2O2

[C2H5O5]

I'm gonna try using my sawyer mini.

Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute

[C2H5O5]

This past weekend I stripped a few All Brans, I am, waiting for two more washes to clear to strip next weekend, hopefully I can get a spirit run in as well.
I have some questions on numbers from my last two stripping runs, I'll go over my notes and post back, here's some eye-candy for now.

On my 2" Nixon detuned I was averaging a gallon very 30-35 minutes. A 13 gallon charge of wash was about 60 - 70 minutes, Distillate was averaging 92 - 97° and cooling water (output) was hoovering just around 100° I played with the heat output and increased water flow but either didn't change my numbers too much... Does this sound about right for my setup. I haven't proofed the distillate yet, I'll check that tonight.


I m going to pull a half a gallon from each run (middle run) and try oaking also, there seems to be a lot of opinions on that but thats for another thread.

[rad14701]

Sounds pretty good, C2H5O5... When stripping, you get what you get... Gather the low wines and get on with the spirit run... I'm off for a short camping vacation this week and won't be back until this Friday... Good luck...

[C2H5O5]

Sounds pretty good, C2H5O5... When stripping, you get what you get... Gather the low wines and get on with the spirit run... I'm off for a short camping vacation this week and won't be back until this Friday... Good luck...

Sounds Good, where you headed. I used to camp at Watkins Glen State Park, I gotta get back there someday, lots of good memories.

[kimbodious]

Runnng 2nd gen ABW as I type. Probably have to pull up after 3rd gen because material in the fermenter was pretty opaque and goopy but smelling oh so good now coming out as product. I did bring the boiler up very slowly this time to try and avoid any scorch.

I've been adding the low wines from the previous batch in to the boiler with the subsequent batch because I thought I read somewhere that I thought I should? Anyway the product that comes forth is higher in purity than the product from the previous run. I am running the element flat out and take all product down to 20%, getting lots of flavour development. After Gen 3 I'll follow up with a slow spirit run.

Does anyone else do generations this way?

[rad14701]

Sounds pretty good, C2H5O5... When stripping, you get what you get... Gather the low wines and get on with the spirit run... I'm off for a short camping vacation this week and won't be back until this Friday... Good luck...

Sounds Good, where you headed. I used to camp at Watkins Glen State Park, I gotta get back there someday, lots of good memories.

We headed down to Clear Creek State Park in Pennsylvania and stayed in a Yurt for four nights...

Runnng 2nd gen ABW as I type. Probably have to pull up after 3rd gen because material in the fermenter was pretty opaque and goopy but smelling oh so good now coming out as product. I did bring the boiler up very slowly this time to try and avoid any scorch.

I've been adding the low wines from the previous batch in to the boiler with the subsequent batch because I thought I read somewhere that I thought I should? Anyway the product that comes forth is higher in purity than the product from the previous run. I am running the element flat out and take all product down to 20%, getting lots of flavour development. After Gen 3 I'll follow up with a slow spirit run.

Does anyone else do generations this way?

Yes, this is called doing a 1.5 distillation, combining low wines with fresh wash... Just make sure that your boiler charge is always at or under 40% ABV for safety reasons... Most here merely do those three stripping runs and then do a spirit run of the combined low wines from the strips, but whatever works for you is fine...

[kimbodious]

Thanks Rad. I am having to go this way out of necessity - not enough demijons for storing the separate batches of low wines. The last two generations have been using Processed Bran, not All Bran (added a couple of crushed vitamin B tablets to be on the safe side) - very active ferments but a pretty gelatinous wash - smells great though even if it did block my siphon hose! First time using Processd Bran was in error, second time deliberately so! Yep keeping a watch out to keep the boiler charge at or below 40% ABV

[C2H5O5]

I'm just curious as to what others are getting for a Final Gravity, My TWP washes have always been 990-995, but the 5 batches of the All Bran has been between 1.002 and 1.004.
I'm done my washes for the year and won't be doing this again until August but before I put my gear away I want to get some feedback and update my notes.

[rad14701]

I'm just curious as to what others are getting for a Final Gravity, My TWP washes have always been 990-995, but the 5 batches of the All Bran has been between 1.002 and 1.004.
I'm done my washes for the year and won't be doing this again until August but before I put my gear away I want to get some feedback and update my notes.

My All Bran washes usually finish at 1.000 or below, but I'm sure a few have finished slightly above 1.000...

[kimbodious]

My first AB spirit (3 gens) and now after two weeks with medium toast French Oak is showing great potential. No sign of any heads (phew) and just enough tails to give it character. Even now it has a lovely mouth-feel and a lovely lingering but subdued aftertaste. A great recipe, thanks Rad!

[sergiolis]

Hi rad,
Could you please tell me what fertilizer do you use?
My 12% washes are taking 7 days and I think the lag time is too long. Even using DAP.
I'm not sure but maybe is the chlorine in the tap water. I couldn't find out if 0.5 mg/l might harm the yeast but Next time I will try a pinch of ascorbic acid.
I would like to achieve 4 or 5 days of fermentation.
Thanks in advance

[thecroweater]

Heating it will sort out the chlorine

[Mikey-moo]

Hi rad,
Could you please tell me what fertilizer do you use?
My 12% washes are taking 7 days and I think the lag time is too long. Even using DAP.
I'm not sure but maybe is the chlorine in the tap water. I couldn't find out if 0.5 mg/l might harm the yeast but Next time I will try a pinch of ascorbic acid.
I would like to achieve 4 or 5 days of fermentation.
Thanks in advance

Aim instead for 8% and it'll finish quicker and taste better

[Greenthorn]

Hi rad,
Could you please tell me what fertilizer do you use?
My 12% washes are taking 7 days and I think the lag time is too long. Even using DAP.
I'm not sure but maybe is the chlorine in the tap water. I couldn't find out if 0.5 mg/l might harm the yeast but Next time I will try a pinch of ascorbic acid.
I would like to achieve 4 or 5 days of fermentation.
Thanks in advance

Pretty sure he said he uses PETERS 20-20-20 fertilizer.

[rad14701]

Hi rad,
Could you please tell me what fertilizer do you use?
My 12% washes are taking 7 days and I think the lag time is too long. Even using DAP.
I'm not sure but maybe is the chlorine in the tap water. I couldn't find out if 0.5 mg/l might harm the yeast but Next time I will try a pinch of ascorbic acid.
I would like to achieve 4 or 5 days of fermentation.
Thanks in advance

Pretty sure he said he uses PETERS 20-20-20 fertilizer.

I now use 30-10-10 as I recall... It is no longer stored in its original container...

[sergiolis]

Thanks guys, I can't find here a good one without urea. I will test some washes with different amounts of epsom and DAP and let's see how it works.
My last washes after 7 days are bubbling only one bubble per minute or even less but the FG is stalled at 1.008.
Apart from fertilizer if you have some ideas to improve the lag time please let me know.

[Greenthorn]

Thanks guys, I can't find here a good one without urea. I will test some washes with different amounts of epsom and DAP and let's see how it works.
My last washes after 7 days are bubbling only one bubble per minute or even less but the FG is stalled at 1.008.
Apart from fertilizer if you have some ideas to improve the lag time please let me know.

Serg, more info? What are your temps? I use fish tank heaters, mine are consistently finishing in 4-6 days, always around .997-.995

I now use 30-10-10 as I recall... It is no longer stored in its original container...

Rad, was this a preference, or just what you could find? Higher nitrogen ferment faster?

[sergiolis]

Hi Greenthorn,
I use fish tank heaters too at 28Cº.
My washes are 25L with 5.5 kg of sugar and it gives a 1.090 - 1.092 OG
Looks like apart from carbohydrates the second most important component for yeast is nitrogen. That's why people use DAP or fertilizer to speed up the process.
But I just started using DAP and i didn't see any difference. Let's see on my second try.
I've never seen one of my AB washes fermenting in 4 days but I'd love to see it.

[rad14701]

Thanks guys, I can't find here a good one without urea. I will test some washes with different amounts of epsom and DAP and let's see how it works.
My last washes after 7 days are bubbling only one bubble per minute or even less but the FG is stalled at 1.008.
Apart from fertilizer if you have some ideas to improve the lag time please let me know.

Serg, more info? What are your temps? I use fish tank heaters, mine are consistently finishing in 4-6 days, always around .997-.995

I now use 30-10-10 as I recall... It is no longer stored in its original container...

Rad, was this a preference, or just what you could find? Higher nitrogen ferment faster?

The yeast make the most use of the Nitrogen so the levels of the others can be lower without impact on yeast health or fermentation... At least not from my experience, and I do push about half of my ferments pretty hard... I think I saw some 30-0-0 that I'd like to try if it passes MSDS review...

Oh, and as for the Urea issue, small amounts of urea aren't anything to worry about... Some fertilizers are overloaded, however, and are best avoided...

[thecroweater]

Urea and ethanol form the compound urethane or ethyl carbamate suspected to be carcinogenic, it might be a small amount and a low risk but given there are plenty of safe options I can't see why anyone would want to mess with urea in their ferment.

[Kegg_jam]

Apart from fertilizer if you have some ideas to improve the lag time please let me know.

How about a big ole 'yeast bomb'

What is your yeast pitching method now?

[sergiolis]

Hi Kegg,
In AB washes I pitch 140g of dry instant yeast for a 25L wash. Usually I got a FG of 0.998 or 0.996. In my last one something rare happened. However all of them are 6 or 7 days ferments.
I´m not sure what is a yeast bomb but I will look into it. I would like to ferment in 4 or 5 days. Thanks a lot mate.
As I could see fertilizers are polemical I prefer not to use them and to look for other alternatives.

[rad14701]

Urea and ethanol form the compound urethane or ethyl carbamate suspected to be carcinogenic, it might be a small amount and a low risk but given there are plenty of safe options I can't see why anyone would want to mess with urea in their ferment.

Correct... And we have had extended discussions regarding ethyl carbamate in at least one topic HERE... A touchy subject to say the least... Some folks have a fear of fertilizers in general even though the same chemical components are found in other parts of our everyday lives, just as Urea is... When in doubt, leave it out...

[sergiolis]

As I said I made a test. 4x 25L whases. 2 of them with 36 gr (3Tbsp) DAP.
Surprisingly, 4 days later those with DAP are not finished. One is at 1.007 and the other at 1.012. But the worst is I think they are stalled because there are no bubbles around.
Probably DAP is in excess because the wash already has a good amount of Nitrogen by its own. So I can assure you an overdose of DAP is deleterious.
The other 2 without DAP are at 0.998 in less than 4 days.
As I bought the suspicious DAP I will try it again with reduced amounts, maybe 5 and 10g.
My previous washes had also DAP (25g) and they were stalled too.
Supposedly if the honorable creator of this awesome recipe has used fertilizer succesfully, DAP might help too. The queston is how much.
As research continues I will post the results obtained.

[der wo]

Very strange result. I always see a strict correlation between adding nutrients and a high fermentation speed and completeness.

[sergiolis]

Hi der wo,
I read a paper about wine fermentation and many winemakers use DAP too if the Nitrogen available in the grape-juice is not enough. The author states that the use of DAP must be balanced because if there is too much ferments can be stalled and yeast will form urea (precursor of ethyl carbamate). Before adding DAP winemakers must measure the Nitrogen available (FAN). Their test show that the addition of DAP worked more efficiently in the halfway of fermentation.
We can't know the level of Nitrogen of our ferments because we usually don't have the tool. But AB washes has nitrogen available from the cereal proteins and the boiled yeast. Based on the paper and my results I think DAP could help but only in the correct amount.