Still for calvados?

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niftyprose
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Still for calvados?

Post by niftyprose »

Hi all, I'm a new arrival and made my first post in the ''welcome' area yesterday. It developed into a tech discussion and a moderator said it would be better in its own thread, so here's a rehash (second distilling?)

I'm a total beginner, have access to spare apples from many sources including some unusual varieties, don't like cider, do like calvados. I'm presently 12l into an initial 40l brew of rough cider which I plan to distill. I aim to do all my fermentation in demijohns, since this will allow me to assign bottles to different varieties as they become available, and then to distill one demijohn at a time. I will mix varieties at the post-distillation bottling stage. I've looked at lots of stills but it's hard for a newbie.

Objectives are:

* Calvados only
* Distill in small batches, likely 5l at a time
* Good flavour, manageable hangover
* Low(ish) cost
* Unobtrusive

I understand that the checklist is likely to involve some compromises but want to get the best product I can given the constraints. I was particularly interested in the ProStill stainless pressure-cooker-with-a-condenser-attachment (first items on this page https://prostill.co.uk/en_US/c/Distilla ... uipment/40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) but was strongly counselled against by CrowEater. Other members have said that:

* a copper alambicco-type still (which I can get quite cheaply over here) will give better results
* I should check out the AirStill (which I had thought was for vodka-type pure spirits but apparently might work well for me)

I remain open to other suggestions.

Best, NP.
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NZChris
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by NZChris »

5l is tiny and it will be very hard work to make an annual supply of calvados if your family and friends like your product, even if they are prepared to help you with picking, scratting, pressing and fermenting.

Apples are not easy to extract the juice from, so acquiring a still may not be the cheapest and easiest part of the project unless you have a supplier of juice.

I have an air still in my distilling museum as an oddity because I got it for a few dollars and I want visitors to know what I do not use, and why.
niftyprose
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by niftyprose »

Hi NZ Chris, thanks for the fast response.

The apple-processing part is going well so far, and I'm pretty happy with the speed at which we've got from bushels of unusual apples to demijohns of rough cider.

Enough people have commented on the 5l thing that I'd like to address it openly.

I hit on 5l of wash because it's one demijohn at a time, which helps when you're dealing with many different varieties of apples and learning how to blend from scratch. My understanding is that larger stills make it easier to call heads, hearts and tails -- basically, you have a bigger target to hit.

However, here in the UK, eBay and other sources are full of tiny copper stills right down to 0.5l. They look more ornamental than functional to me, but sell for enough money that *someone* must be using them.

I'm keen to hear what is considered to be a minimum size run for someone doing a careful double distillation of apple brandy. If it has to be more than 5l, so be it.

Best, NP.
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NZChris
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by NZChris »

I work out how much I want to make, then work out what I need to do to make it. That is what decides the size of my stills and fermenters.

I've only ever fermented small experiments in demijohns for distilling because they are way too small to make enough product to satisfy my family's needs. Airlocks and strict hygiene are not as important as in beer and winemaking if that is what you were thinking. While an air locked demijohn may be great for making a few bottles of mead, a large bin liner and a piece of string might be a better choice for your calvados.
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Mikey-moo
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by Mikey-moo »

Hey nifty. Welcome to the forum. I like the idea of a good somerset Calvados myself and I can see why you'd want a small outfit to run a demijohn of cider at a time if you want to get your blend on at a later date.

I started on a 10L stock pot, pot still and have since upgraded, but you can make small amounts of a reasonable drink on a small still, it just takes more work that's all... If you're dead set on the small size, then you'd do well to read BigBob's guide to running a small still here - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7418332" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

As to the one you've linked to. Yes it has problems - silicone seals and plastic gaskets, general lack of copper to name but a few. They also sell Turbo yeast by the bucket load, so immediately you know their main concern is not to get you making the best possible booze, but to snare you into using as many of their products as they can.

Read up some more and with time you'll get it. Have a go at building your own from a stock pot - it's easier than you might think :-)
Best place to start for newbies - click here - Courtesy of Cranky :-)

If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
niftyprose
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by niftyprose »

Hi Mikey and Chris, thank you both very much for encouraging responses. This reply is addressed particularly to Mikey, because of the very useful lead on small still usage, but I'm open to suggestions from anyone.

Background: I'm not averse to building my own still, having done some relevant DIY projects including plumbing a shower into a very small space not previously used as such. I read the classic Bob Lennon how-to-make-a-reflux-still guide last night while my SO was watching 'Dr Foster', and figured it would be technically feasible, especially if I turned up an appropriate milk churn. The reason I'm not in the queue at Toolstation already is down to personal circs: storing and transporting such a device around my neighbourhood would get me a reputation (if you know what I mean).

I checked over the AirStill as a possible discrete alternative but have heard so many offputting stories about plastic, silicon and turboyeast that I don't think I can countenance it. I fancy, or fancied, the ProStill, a Polish vodka still made from a large, tall stainless steel pressure cooker with a condenser attachment. It's available in small sizes 7--12l. ( https://prostill.co.uk/en_US/c/Stills/76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ) However, no-one in the UK seems to have any hands-on with these, and one member was so completely dismissive that I began looking elsewhere.

I'd be interested in your perspective.

Best, NP.
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der wo
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by der wo »

niftyprose wrote:I checked over the AirStill as a possible discrete alternative but have heard so many offputting stories about plastic, silicon and turboyeast that I don't think I can countenance it. I fancy, or fancied, the ProStill, a Polish vodka still made from a large, tall stainless steel pressure cooker with a condenser attachment. It's available in small sizes 7--12l. ( https://prostill.co.uk/en_US/c/Stills/76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ) However, no-one in the UK seems to have any hands-on with these, and one member was so completely dismissive that I began looking elsewhere.
You have a problem with the plastics in the Airstill but not with the plastics in the pressure cooker stills?
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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thecroweater
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by thecroweater »

the air still is really a bit of a toy, noses will probably be out of joint with that statement but really that's what it is. Its a fairly inefficient very small pot still handy for some little old lady to mess about in her kitchen that's about it. If you want to make your own pot still zip over and check out the many and varied simple designs. First one I built was a two inch copper one triclamp connected to a beer keg with a simple leibig condenser. It really didn't cost very much at all to make nor was it too tricky.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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NZChris
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by NZChris »

There is no point in going to the trouble or expense of building a reflux still for making calvados when simple pot stills are excellent tools for the job. Ferment enough for at least three or four charges at a time so that each ferment produces enough low wines for a spirit run.

You could follow the 'one run and done' advice, but bare in mind that after cuts you will only get around 350ml of 'hearts' at 40% out of a run from a 5l still and while some here claim it is good product, I say they could and should make better by double distilling.

Have a read of Jimbo's apple thread for some good advice
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 83&t=32309
niftyprose
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by niftyprose »

Aha! Thanks forJimbo's thread, NZ Chris. Der Wo, I wasn't aware of plastics in the ProStill, but then I haven't had one in my hand. Um, does it have plastics? Best, W.
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NZChris
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by NZChris »

Just the fact that the ProStill is a pressure cooker should be enough to warn you off. A still should not be designed to hold pressure as pressure can turn a minor incident, like a blockage, into a major destructive event. If a still has a lid, pressure should safely pop the lid off, not force it tighter, which is the way a pressure cooker is designed.

It is highly unlikely that the seal in the ProStill is made from material that isn't degraded by high proof, hot, alcohols and other fermentation byproducts. To find out what material they use, try looking for a replacement seal, or contact them and ask. Note; do not ask them if it is safe, because they are clearly not experts in safety. Ask what the material is, then look up the data sheet for the material and check it for it's resistance to the various components in a typical apply brandy. The only suitable material I have managed to find is PTFE.
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cranky
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by cranky »

Sorry I'm late to the party on this one but I found it now and I would like to give my 2 cents.

If you are wanting to make a Calvados style brandy you need to make it like Calvados. That means double distilled in a pot still with copper. Yes I know some of the lesser Calvadoses are done in columns but the best are pot stilled and the regions that do primarily apple double distill. Forget air stills, forget cheap little toy stills and to be honest forget tiny little batches. It will also require doing some research specifically on making and aging the cider and aging the brandy because those are done in completely different ways than whiskey.

Here's how I do that math. 4L of apple cider has about 6-7% alcohol in it, so for the sake of argument figure 7%. In 4L of cider there is only 240ml of alcohol in it. So each of your stripping runs if run all the way down to 40% total alcohol volume in the low wines it will come to about 600ml. Do that 2 more times and you have less than 2L for the next run, so figure now on 4 stripping runs to get 2.4L of low wines. If you run those 4 runs down to 30% you will have 3.2L of low wines. Now there is only around 960lm of pure alcohol in those low wines so when you run it you might possibly get about 1l of alcohol before cuts, and cuts are going to be very difficult. After cuts you will have around 600ml at 60% and maybe around 1l after tempering to 40% which will happen after aging for a year or two or three, or more to make it like Calvados. Quite frankly to me that is an extreme amount of time and effort to put into a single bottle of brandy.

Now if you really want to only make Calvados a copper alembic is a very good choice but I wouldn't get one smaller than 19 Liters because of that math above. Now that's not to say you can't do it with a small still, after all Bigbob does very well in a 2.5 gallon (10L) alembic but I think you will find you will be upgrading very quickly. I myself started out with a 3 gallon stock pot with a fitting soldered to an upside down bowl on top. It was crude but effective and very very cheap but I got tired very quickly of the amount of work it took to get enough to drink much less enough to age and apple brandy really needs to age, Calvados even more so. So I upgraded to a 4 gallon stock pot, than a 13.5 gallon keg. It's a lot of work to process enough apples to make brandy in the keg but I have enough to drink and age.
markieb
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Re: Still for calvados?

Post by markieb »

hi niftyprose,im uk too from devon i dont know about calvados but i would say going big once is better then having to expand several times (advice given to me by hound dog) i was told to go make a 3" bokakob still so i did its not yet a duel still as im only playing with neutral at the moment to make apple pie shine lemoncello neutral vodka ect but ive the option to cut below the lower plate put a 3" ferrule on and it would go straight onto my keg to make brandy whiskey or what ever :wink: check out jtmplumbing its a great source for copper pipe,im useless with tools but managed to make this.look for local breweries and see if they have any decomissioned stainless steel kegs or scrap yards(where i got mine) mines a 50ltr one but you can go smaller if needed.
i distill under a halfords full size gazebo my columns 1.5m tall ontop the keg and it just fits and its electric :thumbup:
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