Best packing for my column

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

kiwistiller wrote:The column I'm building at the moment ...
What project productivity of this column on an alcohol?
It must give about 10 l/h if effectively to use his diameter (4 inches?). But a volume of pot must be much more than 50 litres, otherwise cutting of heads and tails will be difficult. And heating must be approximately 8-10 kilowatts. It quite a bit!

Column with the height of packing part a 1500 mm (60 inches), and diameter 50 mm (2 inches), can give 2,5-3 litre/hour and requires approximately 3 litres of packing and power of heating 2,5 kW.
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

SPP it the really wonderful packing. Right now I get an alcohol 98.6% vol (27.4°C). It is 97.16% at 20°C. Azeotrope.
(click for enlarge image)
Image
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by LWTCS »

О, мой. Это езда низким
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
MuleKicker
retired
Posts: 3111
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:14 pm
Location: If I told you, I'd have to Kill You.

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by MuleKicker »

LWTCS wrote:О, мой. Это езда низким
You really have a way with words larry.
-Control Freak-
AKA MulekickerHDbrownNose
blanikdog
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:55 pm
Location: Bullamakanka, Oztrailya

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by blanikdog »

I thought you just got rid of all yer russian spies. The redhead is gorgeous, she should have been allowed to stay.
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

LWTCS wrote:О, мой. Это езда низким
What does it mean? Is it a question or joke?

Probably did you ask about speed of run?
It is an alcohol from my column d.40mm (1 ½ "). Electric heater element 4500 W, actual heating - 1000÷1500 W (control of feedback with pot's pressure). Run is 1.2 l/h.
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by LWTCS »

No joke. Only meant to comment that I have never personally seen a hydrometer floating that low before.

It was supposed to be a compliment.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

LWTCS wrote:It was supposed to be a compliment.
Thank you. Online - translators sometimes completely change sense of the post. I think, you can see it in my messages, and my messages are difficult for understanding..
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by LWTCS »

I also used the inncorrect translator. :oops:
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by rad14701 »

That alcometer is inaccurate because it is virtually impossible to collect ethanol at 98.6% in an open environment... That's about 3% higher than anyone should expect to collect at under normal circumstances... Either the alcometer is mis-calibrated or there is no proper temperature compensation...
kiwistiller
retired
Posts: 3215
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:09 pm
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by kiwistiller »

I believe he mentioned it was reading high because ofthe temp, rad. :D
Three sheets to the wind!
My stuff
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by rad14701 »

I'm metric challenged without conversions... :? Some days, just challenged... :|
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

rad14701 wrote: there is no proper temperature compensation...
Yes it is. Temperature was 27.4°С( 81.32°F) when i made photo. When the temperature has decreased to 20°C (68°F), alcometer has shown 97.2% by vol. (95.7% by mass). It is an azeotrope.
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Dnderhead »

some place around here I have a set of hydrometers that read in ABW, and i beleave that is the way they read.
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

I use table. http://fromserge.narod.ru/etc/alctab.pdf

The first column is a closeness (gr/ml) at 20*C
Second column - % аlcohol by volume (ABV)
Third column - % Alcohol by weight (ABW)

My little ABW-ABV converter, based on that table, added below.
Attachments
ABW_ABV.zip
ABW-ABV converter. XLS - file in ZIP - archive
(2.08 KiB) Downloaded 197 times
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
kent.golding
Novice
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:35 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by kent.golding »

Odessit,

What is the "chemical treatment" applied to the spiral-prismatic stainless still packing to increase its "wettable-ness"? Making the stainless more wettable would certainly optimize the surface area and should minimize channeling, no?

I don't have the link, but I saw something similar--but not as nice--on a Russian site where they cut stainless scrubbies into 3-5-mm "springs" for packing. Time consuming, yes, but it's a one time deal.

As for cleaning the still, why not just use "clean-in-place" (CIP) techniques? After a quick rinse, remove the reflux condenser and replace it with a "sprayball"; use the boiler as the reservoir and circulate the cleaning chemicals thru the column and back into the boiler with a pump? Birko's Brew-R-Eze and Acid-Brite are safe for copper and you just turn it on and let it do its thing for 10-min or so while you put everything else away, or better, have a drink... When you're done, everything will be good as new.

h.
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

kent.golding wrote:Odessit,

What is the "chemical treatment" applied to the spiral-prismatic stainless still packing to increase its "wettable-ness"? Making the stainless more wettable would certainly optimize the surface area and should minimize channeling, no?
Yes it is. the treated packing absorbs reflux as a sponge and hinders to formation of channels.
I don't have the link, but I saw something similar--but not as nice--on a Russian site where they cut stainless scrubbies into 3-5-mm "springs" for packing. Time consuming, yes, but it's a one time deal.
SPP excels the cutted stainless scrubbies on all indexes. For example, evenness of piling. The cutted stainless scrubbies is laid unevenly, a column chokes and works bad.
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
ahto
Novice
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:11 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by ahto »

Which one is better packing for 2-3" column, SPP or Dixon Ring packing (like this one -http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/36015 ... apale.html) assuming that price per volume is the same? Why?
kbtof
Novice
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:25 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by kbtof »

I wonder does that SPP (spiral prismatic packing) mean those constructions made of SS wire? (Not those drilling leftovers which are in second photo.) I just want understand this right. :?:
lrandall000
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by lrandall000 »

My first try at spp. Think I gonna make a winder and fill my boka with it.
IMG-20120228-00279.jpg
IMG-20120228-00282.jpg
schacht
Novice
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:21 pm

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by schacht »

How does spp scale up to bigger columns 4" or 6", the rule seems to be that the diameter should be 1/10 the diameter of the column but does that apply for larger columns as well? I'm wondering if it would become less effective because the surface wouldn't hold as much liquid.
lrandall000
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by lrandall000 »

Alrighty, not automated yet but an hour or so of work got me this.
I passivated in muriatic acid the threw em in a rock tumbler with sand.
I added copper grounding crimps cause I had em.
IMG-20120309-00380.jpg
IMG-20120309-00391.jpg
jake_leg
Swill Maker
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:28 pm
Location: UK

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by jake_leg »

Look good. You should passivate using citric acid though. Muriatic acid promotes rust.
lrandall000
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by lrandall000 »

jake_leg wrote:Look good. You should passivate using citric acid though.
Yea gotta buy some, I had a gallon of the muriatic laying around so I used that. Better than nothin I suspected. I think the sand did a great job of roughing it up, dont know if the acid is needed after the tumble.
jake_leg
Swill Maker
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:28 pm
Location: UK

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by jake_leg »

Doing nothing is fine actually, it will passivate in air given time. :)

What sort of volume have you got there out of interest.
lrandall000
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by lrandall000 »

jake_leg wrote:Doing nothing is fine actually, it will passivate in air given time. :)

What sort of volume have you got there out of interest.
That was enough to fill a 1.5 inch column 20 inches tall.
Ran it this weekend, it pissed 185 proof through the whole body. It ran about twice as fast as I could run it with the scrubbies.
I was gonna make a slightly taller column but 20 inches was the pipe I found in the corner of the shop. Think I will stick with it as it makes for a compact unit and 185 pr is good enough for me. Switching to electric was nice too, no more chasing flame levels.
jake_leg
Swill Maker
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:28 pm
Location: UK

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by jake_leg »

Good work for 1 hour. :thumbup:
lrandall000
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:42 am

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by lrandall000 »

Here is a few pick of the shorter rig and my new electric boiler.
IMG-20120311-397.jpg
This was the speed before I turned it up. Stayed just shy of 190 no matter how much heat I threw at it.
IMG-20120311-398.jpg
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

Guess - what was the background for a photo shoot?
SPP
before
etching
SPP
after
etching
Ready to use SPP
after etching
and passivation
Image Image Image
Image Image Image
Image Image Image
Image Image Image
Image Image Image
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
Odessit
Novice
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Odessa, Ukraine

Re: Best packing for my column

Post by Odessit »

Decahedron...
Wy Heptahedron?

Because each element have ten eddges for each round...
Attachments
30.jpg
Excuse me, all my posts is on-line translation.
-----------------------------
50L Keg with Heating Elements 0-4.5 kW
1.5m Column SS 2"
packing - SS SPP 3.5x3.5mm
1,8 liter/h of azeotrope
Post Reply