Condensor Power Math, Boka

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Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby TDS » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Hi all, hope you're well!

I'm considering a boka, 5 foot column, top 1 foot will be condensor and collection "cup".

2 inch copper, 48 inches of packable column as measured from below the return
to the join with the keg at the bottom of the stack. another 1 and 1/2 inches of the sanke valve sticking up above the boiler top,
not packed, just a little extra space between where the packed column ends
and the open space at the top inside the boiler, above the liquid but below the stack and packing.

I am considering reusing my existing condensor on top of the stack.
It's already braised into a 2" copper cap with a thermport that can easily double as a vent.

10 feet of 1/4 inch wrapped in a double coil.

Here is a picture of it:

IMG_1087 (375x500).jpg


I have tried the calculators here at the site. I am having trouble reconciling with vapor flow, condensor power, and my reflux equations.

I have spent a lot of time figuring figures, but frankly, I am not inspired by confidence with my math skills.
It seems so imprecise. I feel I am constantly making mathematical assumptions,
or estimating.

I guess I am looking for a little reassurance...

Will it be enough?

Max flow up to pushback with a recirculating pump,
No figure for flow restriction from height as the push is offset by the downwards "siphon" effect once in motion.
Also my pump is "pushing" on it... the pump can go faster than the max flowrate through the 1/4 inch. The pump is adjustable...
I actually step down the diameter of the pump out take hose to fit it.
I push the pump higher until it maxes out and vibrates a bit, then back off til it stops and settles in.

So... 5 foot column with 48 inches packed column below the return.
2 inch column.
10 ft 1/4 inch in a coil.
Any math geeks out there?
How about anyone whose used a similiar size coil with a 5ft column?
I posted this in the boka thread but nobody answered
and in my welcome thread where I got great advice on measuring my flow rate through the condensor
but also "try it and see", which I would like to avoid, for obvious reasons.

I welcome your feedback. Even if you're not a math geek.
I know there's a lot of experience on these boards.

Cheers!
:twisted:
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby F6Hawk » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 pm

Well brother, I don't believe much in math when it comes to brewing. But I built my 48" Boka with a 2 X 24" pieces of column, the lower 24" is packed, and the upper 24" have a 10" condenser (are you stalking me?). The plan was to be able to run both portions together for reflux, or lose the lower column to have a pot still. I can tell you that with my low-temp tap water of 35-39° F, I find it handles anything I throw at it. Bear in mind, I am currently drinking. And... I am using a banjo bayou burner, lots of BTUs, but I run it at the lowest possible setting (sometimes it actually blows out), and I run a slow trickle and it runs well.

Not sure if this is by any means answering your question, but my system works for me, no calculators involved.
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby TDS » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:02 am

Dude......

I feel like we're in parallel universes of each other or something...

I also use propane, the bayou classic... the heavy duty one, SBDF or something.

And I also am currently drinking! :shock:

The fact that you also run propane inspires me with confidence.

Boka it is.
:twisted:
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby F6Hawk » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:15 am

I almost wanna ask to see a picture of you, but I'm scared. And to set us apart, I just ordered the necessary parts to convert one of my kegs to electricity so I can brew in the basement in the winter, so that the safety nazis don't come down too hard on me.
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby TDS » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:44 am

I have a garage.

Phew! We ARE different people!

It's actually better out there in winter, although after the "Blood Sweat and Mosquitos" run last week, I'm rethinking it.
Spring and Fall are the best. No Hot, No Cold, everything is juuuuuusssst right.

Can I ask you a question about your Boka? If you have a 48 inch column, why only 24" of packed column?
Sorry if I'm reading that wrong... but couldn't you pack at least 36" and crank it up a notch?
I know they all demand obedience and have thier happy places,
Lyssa starts pissing in the product when she doesn't get her way,
just wondering why you're only packing 24 out of 48 inches.
Maybe there's a pic of it somewhere about in this place?
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby F6Hawk » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:52 am

I said I HAVE a basement... but I have been brewing in the garage all winter and summer. One nice thing about propane is it ups the temperature in the garage, and I usually open the door to let the heat in the house in the winter.

Why only 24"? Well, I am getting ~92-93% with 24", and I have recently been pulling out copper scrubbies to try to lower the ABV and obtain more flavor. I am thinking UJSSM will taste better at lower ABV, so working my way down slowly, about 2-3 scrubbies at a time.

I have run it with scrubbies shoved up into the bottom of the upper column, but didn't get that much of a boost. At 93%, I didn't really expect to. I have read where someone was getting 95%, but after a few days to air, it drops to 93%. Guess it is sucking in some of that humidity.
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby TDS » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:18 am

Do you have a picture? Like maybe you already resized one and posted it here?

I thought that every so many inches of packed column would equal 1 HTEP...
More inches, more plates (HTEPs), more reflux, more speed, more purity....
This is with the pipe diameter being constant.

Shinner said a similiar thing about increasing the pipe diameter as opposed to the height of the packed section of the column.
My understanding is that the pipe diameter and the height of the packed section of the column are independent variables.
Each on it's own can be changed to increase purity and production speed.

Am I misunderstanding?
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby F6Hawk » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:22 am

Column height (as in higher) increases purity. Column diameter increases output, or speed. No, haven't posted pics, cuz it's just like any other Bokakob on a keg. I'd be happy to take some for ya when I am sober enuf to hold a camera steady.

That's why I am considering the SS 3" build... increased speed/output, as well as strength/rigidity vs my 1/4" copper tubing output.

The thing about output is... I can run my rig faster, but when I do, I get unwanted flavors (kinda "tailsy"), and the temp increases. But when I slow it down and get it all balanced, I get steady drips that equate to a nice-tasting 92-93% output without any surging. If I see the temp rising more than 1° above normal (173° for my rig), I know I am either running it too fast (if it's early in the run), or the tails are a-comin'!!
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Re: Condensor Power Math, Boka

Postby TDS » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:38 am

TDS wrote:I know they all demand obedience and have thier happy places,
Lyssa starts pissing in the product when she doesn't get her way


I have to look at that again, I thought a taller column of 2 inch with 48 inches of effective packed column would increase my run times AND my purity...
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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