Help with process

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greggn
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Help with process

Post by greggn »

I could use some advice and help on fixing my process ...

I'm running a Mile Hi 8 gallon, 110v electric-fired, CM reflux column. My first batch was a WPOSW. Since my power controller was not yet ready, I ran it with the heater on high and managed the temp at the top of the column by adjusting water flow to the reflux condenser. After cuts, the product was 190 proof and after diluting down to 100 proof it was a very fine vodka with just a hint of sweetness.

Batch Two was another WPOSW but run with a modified Harbor Freight power controller. This time I managed the column temperature with the power controller and, after stabilizing the column, ran no water to the reflux condenser. After cuts, the product was 180 proof with some apparent smearing.

Batch Three was DWWG, with the same operation as Batch Two. The product was collected at 178 proof and, though it is still airing/aging, seems to exhibit more smearing.

Batch Four will be a Dr. Who Rye Vodka and is nearing the end of its fermentation. Obviously, I'd like to resolve my process issues. When running on the power controller my take-off speed is 2 - 3 drops per second and I'm collecting in roughly 100 ml increments. Given the relatively stable temps and slow take-off I'm confused why I'm seeing more smearing than I did with Batch One.

What advice can you give ?
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Re: Help with process

Post by T-Pee »

How did you come to the conclusion that smearing is an issue?

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acfixer69
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Re: Help with process

Post by acfixer69 »

greggn wrote:I could use some advice and help on fixing my process ...

I'm running a Mile Hi 8 gallon, 110v electric-fired, CM reflux column. My first batch was a WPOSW. Since my power controller was not yet ready, I ran it with the heater on high and managed the temp at the top of the column by adjusting water flow to the reflux condenser. After cuts, the product was 190 proof and after diluting down to 100 proof it was a very fine vodka with just a hint of sweetness.

Batch Two was another WPOSW but run with a modified Harbor Freight power controller. This time I managed the column temperature with the power controller and, after stabilizing the column, ran no water to the reflux condenser. After cuts, the product was 180 proof with some apparent smearing.

Batch Three was DWWG, with the same operation as Batch Two. The product was collected at 178 proof and, though it is still airing/aging, seems to exhibit more smearing.

Batch Four will be a Dr. Who Rye Vodka and is nearing the end of its fermentation. Obviously, I'd like to resolve my process issues. When running on the power controller my take-off speed is 2 - 3 drops per second and I'm collecting in roughly 100 ml increments. Given the relatively stable temps and slow take-off I'm confused why I'm seeing more smearing than I did with Batch One.

What advice can you give ?
Why are you cutting the water off. It should be on thru the whole run. I would suspect that is your problem.

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thatguy1313
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Re: Help with process

Post by thatguy1313 »

If you cut water to the reflux condenser it runs much more like a pot still, which will have more smearing than a reflux still. You'll need to play with the heat and reflux condenser until you're getting a nice broken stream of distillate. I don't have a cm but i think you can throw quite a bit of heat at them and use the water flow to the reflux condenser to control takeoff rates. You just have to be careful not to throw so much heat at it that it floods. You also need to run it in full reflux for at least 15 min before taking anything off. Some people let them run in full reflux for over an hour before taking anything off. Doing this will let the fractions separate in the column and reduce smearing.
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Re: Help with process

Post by T-Pee »

I run a CM and let the reflux condenser run all the way to the obvious tails when the temp spikes. Only then do I turn it off.
Depending on what you're making, a reflux still is run differently than a pot still. They take a bit more learning too and each one is different.
Keep going. You'll learn how it should be run by trial and error. It's part of the process.

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skow69
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Re: Help with process

Post by skow69 »

What those guys said. Thing is, when you shut off the water, then you are getting zero reflux so you are not separating the fractions any better than a pot still. Packed columns only work because we return liquid reflux at the top to mingle with the rising vapor.

If your taking 2-3 drops / second and no reflux, you must have the power turned way down. The guys who write books with math and science and stuff say if it's a 2" column you'l need around 800-1200 watts to get optimum vapor speed. More if your insulation is less than perfect.
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Re: Help with process

Post by still_stirrin »

+1.

Reflux for 15-30-45 minutes. It'll compress the heads and give you cleaner hearts and push the tails to later in the run. Bring it up to boil, the reduce the heat and stabilize for the initial reflux.

Then, slowly pull your foreshots. and close the outflow valve again and let it stabilize again. You'll smell the esters and apple-like smells as you're compressing the heads.

Oh, and you want the reflux condenser running such that you have a temperature gradient (cold in....warm to hot out).
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Re: Help with process

Post by greggn »

Ok, my next run will be with a hotter kettle and more cooling management from the reflux condenser.

Thank you for all the replies.
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Re: Help with process

Post by SoMo »

Post some pics of your rig, does it have a take off valve, most CMs don't?
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Re: Help with process

Post by greggn »

So, a follow-up ...

I ran my next batch with much more power to the heater element and a steady flow of water through the reflux condenser throughout the run. As a result, I saw much better compression of the fractions and pulled 92% ABV. An incremental improvement but early indications are that it's a much cleaner product.

Thank you all.
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Re: Help with process

Post by T-Pee »

By jove, I think he's got it!

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Re: Help with process

Post by googe »

Group hug, well done fellas :thumbup:
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Re: Help with process

Post by greggn »

> Post some pics of your rig

Here's a shot ... insulation on the column, water fed from a pond pump in the bathtub, and a ball valve on the reflux condenser line.
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Re: Help with process

Post by slow trickle »

Wrap your rubber bung with teflon tape to prevent the bung from leaching and getting brittle.
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Re: Help with process

Post by greggn »

> Wrap your rubber bung

I never used the supplied bung ... that's an all natural cork plug from Widgetco.
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Re: Help with process

Post by rad14701 »

Contrary to what manufacturers say, we don't consider natural rubber any safer than synthetics... How can you tell you get what the vendor states...??? And do you have an MSDS that shows the rubber safe with every single constituent in the distillate vapor, or a combination thereof...??? No matter, it still falls under Rule #8 of The Rules We Live By for safety reasons...
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Re: Help with process

Post by Tokoroa_Shiner »

rad14701 wrote:Contrary to what manufacturers say, we don't consider natural rubber any safer than synthetics... How can you tell you get what the vendor states...??? And do you have an MSDS that shows the rubber safe with every single constituent in the distillate vapor, or a combination thereof...??? No matter, it still falls under Rule #8 of The Rules We Live By for safety reasons...
He said its natural cork.
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Re: Help with process

Post by rad14701 »

Tokoroa_Shiner wrote:
rad14701 wrote:Contrary to what manufacturers say, we don't consider natural rubber any safer than synthetics... How can you tell you get what the vendor states...??? And do you have an MSDS that shows the rubber safe with every single constituent in the distillate vapor, or a combination thereof...??? No matter, it still falls under Rule #8 of The Rules We Live By for safety reasons...
He said its natural cork.
Doh...!!! Been saying I need to get my glasses checked because I've scratched the lenses all to hell... Might have just read it wrong, too... Grrr...!!!

Never mind...!!! :shifty:
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