My Journey

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

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raketemensch
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

So, today I started an experimental banana ferment. I have 2 2-gallon Mr. Beer fermenters from my early brewing days, and they're perfect for weird stuff that I don't want to invest a lot of time into in case it fails.

The recipe is:

8 lbs bananas (pureed in a blender with some water)
2.5 lbs sugar
1 tbsp of this stuff (that's the main experimental part) for nutrients

I cooled it down to 71 degrees and pitched some EC-1118.

The one problem with doing these small batches is that you don't want to waste a full flask for a hydrometer reading, but I did it anyway and I've starting at 1.058. It's also worth a hydrometer test just to taste it, this stuff is good. Another issue with using these Mr. Beer fermenters is that I don't get to obsessively check an airlock. They do have spigots on them, though, so I can do simple taste tests to see when it's dry.

I browned the bananas on some wax paper in the sun during the day, then stored them in a brown paper bag at night. They smelled really good when going into the blender, but I think next time I'm going to wait even longer for more sugars to form up, so I can add less granulated.
IMG_5928.jpg
I'm roughly estimating 2 weeks for it to be getting close to 1.000, but not rushing it. It'll be ready when it's ready. At that point I'll decide, based on taste, whether to simply sweeten it up with some brown sugar (and maybe a little nutmeg) and pasteurize it for drinking as-is, or if I'll fire it up in the stockpot still.
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Re: My Journey

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wooda2008 wrote:
raketemensch wrote:...I feel like it took me a really long time to get here, but it was worth it.
You started this topic less than a month ago. Blink of an eye compared to how long you'll be enjoying this hobby.

Hell, my "next step" probably won't be for 6 months.

Keg looks damn good
Thanks, Woods. I had actually started studying all of this back in November of last year, but didn't start building for real until ~2 months ago. I had planned to start with a keg, but it took too long to get all the bits together, so I went with a ss stockpot from Walmart, which I'm glad about, because I got some practice in before going big.

I was getting in my car the other day and noticed something sticking out of a box that came with the house when we bought it 8 years ago -- I hadn't really noticed it before, but it was ~10 feet of 10/3 wire which is something I was *just* about to buy to wire up the basement for the 5500 watt element. I did some digging around the basement circuit breakers, and ordered one of these to go with it. The spot I plan to set up the keg in is all of 2 feet from the breaker, so I should be in good shape once it comes in, I just need to pick up a male and a female plug, because I still have another male and female left over from wiring up the generator.

Meanwhile, I'm doing 2 cleaning runs on the pot still again, because I soldered a union onto the column and the baseboard condenser. Vinegar's done, and the alcohol is just starting to drip. Someone gave us a bottle of whipped cream vodka for Christmas last year that we can't stand, so it's perfect for The Sacrifice. I really need to get this done because I have 5 gallons of UJSSM that finished fermenting 2 weeks ago and I should run it tomorrow. I've read reports of people waiting as much as 2 months between runs, but I don't want to push it that far unless I have to. I'm wishing I had a second condenser right now so that I could do the cleaning run on the keg boiler, even with just the 1375 watts I would get running the element at 110. So I'm prowling craigslist for more finned baseboard.

Actually, now that I think about it I have a 3-foot length in the garage, which is probably more than enough for the 1800 watts I'm supposedly getting from this hotplate.
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Re: My Journey

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After yesterday's 2 cleaning runs, I got two runs of 2nd gen UJSSM in today (SG 1.076, OG 0.992, 10.83%), the second one is running now. I froze all of the leftover backset, which I think I'll need when I go from a 5-gallon fermenter to a 20 gallon one. I'll have to research that a little.

I really wish I could've gotten some cleaning runs done on the keg, but I only have the one 5' length of baseboard condenser, and I really needed to run this generation and start the next. I remembered that I had a 3' length in the garage, which is probably enough for the stockpot still, so I soldered a union onto the end of it during the first run, which means... MORE CLEANING RUNS. Oy, now I understand why people here seem to spend more time building than running... But now I can run both stills at once, which I'll hopefully get to do next weekend, assuming the 30-amp circuit breaker comes in time. I'm not sure what to sacrifice for the keg cleaning run, coming up with ~7 gallons of something cheap to run isn't going to be easy.

These were my first runs in the basement, which is awesome because all of my tools are there, and I have everything but a sink available to me (which I hope to rectify this Winter). There's a decent stereo, a TV, and an XBox which I can use to play music or movies or whatever for background noise while I'm running. I also work from home, so it's possible that I can get some stripping runs in during the week.

I also sorted out a good process for building something for an experiment I have planned for the 2" column, which I'll talk about once I get further into testing.

Oh, and I found someone selling 2 (unused) 20-gallon Brute cans for $25 on Craigslist. Hopefully they still have them.
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Re: My Journey

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So, for the "cheap thing to run" for cleaning both stills this weekend I made up 7 gallons of rad's All Bran in a new 32-gallon Brute can that I picked up yesterday on the way home from work. $29 at Home Depot with a lid. The 7 gallons look kinda silly in it, but I only need 5 to clean the keg and 2 to clean the pot, and I didn't want to waste any more time/effort/money than that.

I needed 7 cups of All Bran, which was exactly what I had left. 14 pounds of sugar later, into the barrel it went with some 20-20-20 and *almost* enough yeast. It may not be fully down to ~1.000 by Saturday, but I don't really care -- I can't drink it anyway, so I'm'a gonna run it after 4 days. Last time I made it I got down to 1.010 in 4 days. That wasn't low enough, and it still doesn't taste great because of that (I think), but it was my first run, I had a free Saturday, and I was overeager. Live and learn, I guess, it was a good lesson to get out of the way early with a small wash. I ran the second half of it a week later, and it was much lower, and much better. It's almost 2 months old now, and getting much better.

What was sweet about it was that I worked from home today, so I had 2 big stockpots and a little pot (for yeast starter) going on the stove during my "lunch break." It was a nice break in the day to get it all going, it's too bad people can't set up stills @ the office :eugeek:
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Re: My Journey

Post by pfshine »

You are almost completely set up. Congratulations. Now get to making some hooch.
Life is a journey you take alone. Make sure you do what you what makes you happy
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Well, I made it a long way today, but fell short of my goal, due to having to run the 5500 watt element at 110 instead of 220. Throwing 1375 watts at a keg doesn't get you very far...

It's a weekend of cleaning runs, first I fired up the keg with the 5' baseboard condenser:
IMG_6036.jpg
I thought it'd be a good idea to do it outside for the first run, just in case something weird happened. Everything worked out very well, except it goes sooooooooo slowly. I guess the point of the vinegar run is to have the innards bathed in vinegar vapor as long as possible, and I've definitely achieved that. I also realize how important reflectix could be for insulating it. It got really chilly this afternoon, which is probably creating some reflux of its own.

Then I fired up the stockpot with the 3' condenser, just to see if it was enough, and it was:
IMG_6035.jpg
It knocked down the ~1800 watts that I get out of the hotplate, so now I can run small experimental stuff while also running Big Bertha.

I also wired up and mounted the outlet for the 220 on the wall, so when I get the breaker on Monday I can just pop it in and connect it and be ready to roll.

Of course, that requires having a controller box, right? Well, I didn't actually have a good *box*, and after digging through the house for half an hour or so, I ended up building it into a plastic wastebasket :think:

I'll post some pictures of that later, they're not showing up in the cloud yet. Strange, but effective. Eventually I'll get a real project box and mount it on the wall, and I'd like to have a good voltmeter too for finding the sweet spots with the heating element. I'll get there eventually....

I also realized today how valuable those gallon vinegar jugs can be when you need to get a lot of water down to the basement. I wouldn't put spirits in them, but they must be food safe, right?
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Thanks, iCloud, here are the rest of the pictures...

The Control Bucket:
IMG_6037.jpg
I'm seriously considering drawing a face on it for now.

The inside:
IMG_6038.jpg
And a shot of my work area in the basement -- the plug for the keg is just to the left of this, as is the 32-gallon Brute that's currently holding the wash for tomorrow's sacrifice:
IMG_6039.jpg
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Re: My Journey

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I finished up the cleaning runs today with the sac runs. The All Bran that I'd pitched on Tuesday, as I figured, was still up at ~1.018, but by the calc it was over 9% alcohol, and I also figured it didn't matter if there was still yeast flavoring in a sac run, so in it went.

I had run the keg boiler outside yesterday, and it took forever to get to drops, but inside today, even at only 1375 watts, it was like 3x faster. I guess the chilly air and cold breeze yesterday were refluxing the crap out of that poor vinegar. It was even pouring a thicker stream than the stockpot/hotplate still, which just goes to show you how much more efficient it is to have the element right in the liquid.

So, cleaning runs are done, the work on both stills passed inspection, and I'll be picking up the circuit breaker that I need tomorrow to get all 5500 watts so next weekend I can do it up Fo' Rizzle.

I have a 5-gallon 3rd gen of UJSSM that will be done and dry, and probably 3 gallons of feints from the previous gens, I'm still debating how I want to handle that. I may just add a gallon or 2 of the feints to the 5 gallons of wash and go for something drinkable, or I may stay conservative and just do another stripping run. That'll also let me test how well the air-cooled condenser can do up against 5500 watts for a stripping run.

I also need to pick up sugar this week to get a 25-gallon 4th gen rolling next weekend.

Meanwhile, the bananas are still too sweet to run at 9 days, which is to be expected. But damn, the wash tastes good. Next time I would go with another pound or two of bananas, and while they could possibly be sweeter, I think I waited long enough for the sugars to form. I may wait for them to get a little browner next time.
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Re: My Journey

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Well, today was something of an exercise in frustration.

I had gotten a duplex circuit breaker delivered this week so I could have a 30-amp circuit hit two different buses in the sub-panel, and I got it all wired up this morning (while the children cried, because they were without wifi for 30 minutes), and I finally got everything all set up to run the full 5500 watts. I charged the keg, which was an interesting surprise, since the 5-gallon wash just barely covered the element, so I need to plan for larger washes in the future, but more on that later.

I got a second fan set up, so I had 2 box fans aimed at the air-cooled condenser, excited to see how it would do with 2 fans vs 5500 watts.That's a cage match that I've had tickets to for over two months now, and I couldn't wait to see it play out. I got the feints jar set up for a stripping run, and I plugged in the controller.... Nothing. Huh. Long story short, 2-3 hours of fiddling, googling, getting advice here, re-wiring, etc got me nowhere. I never got the element to fire up, although I had it running fine on 110 last weekend. Eventually I had to give up, as frustration and fatigue were setting in, and I needed to take care of the 4th gen of UJSSM.

Having no fresh backset, I thawed out a couple of gallons that I had in the freezer, and started melting down the 35 pounds of sugar that I'd need. I had only done 5-gallon ferments up until today, so I dropped ~28 pounds of fresh corn and 35 pounds of sugar into my new Brute can. I had cleaned up the spent corn from the 5-gallon bucket and added water to keep the yeast alive earlier, I dropped in my wireless meat thermometer, saw that I was at 92 degress, so I dumped it all into the big Brute. I was amazed at how thick and gooey it gets at the bottom of that corn bed, there's some thick, nasty yeasties growing in there. Hopefully they're happy in their big new apartment. I also used a step bit to drill out a hole for an airlock, although I doubt it will work since the brute lid seal isn't completely airtight. I figured it was worth a shot, it's an easy way to monitor progress. A 20-gallon ferment is a lot of work, especially the first time. I had 2 stockpots going, carrying 3-gallons at a time up and down the cellar stairs. Definitely got my exercise in today.

I got the can up off the floor (on an old router table) to keep it from absorbing the cold from the floor, and also to help with siphoning, and got back to work on other things. Eventually I checked the thermo, and saw it was at 145 degrees! Shit, was the reading earlier bad? Did I just kill all my yeast? Two seconds later it was 125. Then 110. Then 130. Apparently the thermo had shit the bed.

So, that was finally impetus to get the raspberry pi set up for temperature monitoring, and saw I was at a nice, happy 85f. I had the code to get the temps already, so I just modified it to record to a DB every 15 minutes so I can watch for trends, and I also set up high and low temp alerts -- I'll get email if it goes outside the yeast's comfort zone. Plus I can check it from work.... :think: I've got a 500w aquarium heater ready to drop into the bucket if I need it, but I'm seeing what happens without it first.

So, a huge setback for the moment, but a lot of progress as well. I just have to sort out the wiring for my controller and I'll be good to go. Hopefully soon. My band has a gig next weekend, so I'm not sure how much I'll get done.
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Oh, and I forgot to mention...

Last round I pulled 4 cups of spent corn out of my mash, and replaced only two of them with organic pearl barley. So that's two cups, up against ~7 pounds of corn.

I can't believe the flavor difference, it's like an entirely different mash! Even within the 20-gallon ferment that I moved it to, the barley flavor difference is monstrous. I'm thinking about adding 2-4 cups of oats in the next gen.

The temperature monitoring I set up is awesome, I'm kind of amazed at how fast it dropped ~15 degrees. Tonight I'll sterilize the aquarium heater and drop it in, from everything I'm reading I would ideally want my baker's yeast (Flesichmann's Active Dry) to be at around 85 degrees. I'm currently at 70, and stabilizing fast, but I'll need to bring it up. 75-85 would be ideal, according to the research i've done (with limited sources of info), with the high end producing a better flavor.
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Re: My Journey

Post by rager »

i found 80 to be the sweet spot for bakers. fast ferments without of pushing the yeast

keep it up. it only gets better
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Re: My Journey

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rager wrote:i found 80 to be the sweet spot for bakers. fast ferments without of pushing the yeast

keep it up. it only gets better
Thanks, I'll get there. One step at a time.

It's purring along happily at a steady 75 degrees, I think I can go up one more step to push for 80, but I haven't tried it yet. Having the email alerts is nice, once it got up over 75 I haven't gotten one since, which means it's staying there 24 hours now. Thing is still fizzing like pop rocks 3 days later. I'd never opened the top of the fermenter while it was cranking before, it's quite a sight.
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Re: My Journey

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raketemensch wrote:
rager wrote:i found 80 to be the sweet spot for bakers. fast ferments without of pushing the yeast

keep it up. it only gets better
Thanks, I'll get there. One step at a time.

It's purring along happily at a steady 75 degrees, I think I can go up one more step to push for 80, but I haven't tried it yet. Having the email alerts is nice, once it got up over 75 I haven't gotten one since, which means it's staying there 24 hours now. Thing is still fizzing like pop rocks 3 days later. I'd never opened the top of the fermenter while it was cranking before, it's quite a sight.

stick with the 75-80.

ever make a starter in a glass jug? you will see the wild action of the yeast. ive caught myself after 5 minutes of looking at a glass jar. :crazy:
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Re: My Journey

Post by Truckinbutch »

:oops: And I thought I was a closet voyeur for watching such yeast shenanigans through a glass jar . Almost gives you a woody , don't it .
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Re: My Journey

Post by jedneck »

Truckinbutch wrote::oops: And I thought I was a closet voyeur for watching such yeast shenanigans through a glass jar . Almost gives you a woody , don't it .
Hell I'm trying to figure out where I can put two jugs of cider that I can see them but the SOH don't get mad. They are on the cookstove now. Can't be cooking the cider.
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Re: My Journey

Post by rager »

Truckinbutch wrote::oops: And I thought I was a closet voyeur for watching such yeast shenanigans through a glass jar . Almost gives you a woody , don't it .
maybe we should check back into HD anonymous , and confess our wrong doings
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Re: My Journey

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As an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church, I hereby absolve you of anything hinky about yeast lust.

Plus, I checked the bible, y'all are in the clear. Just make sure you sacrifice a dove or something.
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Interesting lessons from this large batch of UJSSM.

First of all, I finally know what it means when the "cap falls." Watching that sucker burn away like pop rocks for a week or so was cool.

But the main thing is that I had an aquarium heater in there, and the temp was amazingly stable between 75 and 76 degrees -- it maybe wavered .4 degrees, tops.

Then the cap fell...

It dropped right down to 69, which means that the yeast was keeping a solid 6 degrees of heat going on its own. Just turned the heater up another notch, which is to full blast. It takes hours and hours to stabilize in 20 gallons, even with a 500w heater.
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Since I'm keeping the brute can at a stable 75, and the heat loss is mainly out the top, I'm considering making a frame to go around the lid of the bucket so I can build an insulated box to trap the heat loss and use it to keep a 5-gallon bucket warm. I think I'll also be wrapping the entire brute can with reflectix, since it's pretty thin-walled and it'll get mighty chilly down there in January/February.

I bottled up some of the banana experiment tonight, adding a little sugar and nutmeg. It's so good. So good.
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Re: My Journey

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Electrical issues continue to keep me from running at 220. Although I spent a few hours troubleshooting them today, I'm no closer. HDNB has proven himself to be a saint by helping me out on this.

Meanwhile, since I had charged the keg with 10 gallons of 4th-gen UJ last weekend, I ran the keg with the element at 110, so it's only running at 1375 watts. It took 2:45 to start dripping fores, and I'm now 3 hours into that run. It's suppose to be a stripping run, but with the pencil lead stream I've got, I'm collecting it in jars and I'll taste the middle bits to see if they're worth keeping. The rest will go into the UJ feints jar, which should be hitting 3 gallons after today.

Knowing this was going to take forever, I stopped at HD this morning and picked up a roll of Reflectix and double-wrapped the keg, single-wrapped the column and cut out a disc to insulate the top of the keg. I had enough left over to single-wrap the Brute barrel as well. Now that I think about it, I might have enough to wrap the 5-gallon bucket as well.

That 5-gallon bucket is fermenting a banana wash that I've documented here.

A few accomplishments, none great, and some expected electrical BS. All the jars kinda make up for it. I tasted a little straight off the pipe, and it was delicious. No burn, already pretty smooth. Oh, right, THAT'S why I'm going through all this...
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

Had my 3rd cuts party with my wife tonight. It's single-run UJ, so we were just looking for a tight hearts cut and a little experience, working up our noses and taste buds and, more importantly, a vocabulary to use around the flavors.

We ended up with just the two middle jars out of 14, the rest is back in the basement awaiting a spirit run. I'm at a little over 3 gallons of feints now, so one more stripping run and I'll have enough to do my first spirit run. I'm still debating whether to dilute with wash or water, but I'm leaning toward wash.

During my lunch break tomorrow I think I'm going to rack off the last 10 gallons of gen 4 into the keg and kick off gen 5 in the Brute. That way it should be done by next weekend, and I can just plug in the keg when I find time this weekend.
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Re: My Journey

Post by rager »

personally i like the true double distillation. the 1.5 run i last did just was not what i was looking for. it tastes very smeared . and it wasnt from running to fast or cuts. it was about the flavor mash that carried over. tasted unrefined and rough around the edges. it just wasnt as clean of a spirit for my liking and that im looking for. so i will stick with the stripping runs then spirit run. water is the best filter. i shoot for 30% if im not already there with my low wines.

just my input
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Re: My Journey

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rager wrote:personally i like the true double distillation. the 1.5 run i last did just was not what i was looking for. it tastes very smeared . and it wasnt from running to fast or cuts. it was about the flavor mash that carried over. tasted unrefined and rough around the edges. it just wasnt as clean of a spirit for my liking and that im looking for. so i will stick with the stripping runs then spirit run. water is the best filter. i shoot for 30% if im not already there with my low wines.

just my input
Thanks, rager, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.
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Re: My Journey

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rager wrote:personally i like the true double distillation. the 1.5 run i last did just was not what i was looking for. it tastes very smeared . and it wasnt from running to fast or cuts. it was about the flavor mash that carried over. tasted unrefined and rough around the edges. it just wasnt as clean of a spirit for my liking and that im looking for. so i will stick with the stripping runs then spirit run. water is the best filter. i shoot for 30% if im not already there with my low wines.
Have you read Ian Smiley's book, Making Pure Corn Whiskey? His method makes a nice clean whiskey in two distillations. Here is a link. http://nopanic.fr/wp-content/uploads/20 ... illers.pdf
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Re: My Journey

Post by jb-texshine »

Personally I have had mixed results with 1.5runs. Some have came out with a lighter taste and some with WAY MOREtaste...
it is totally dependent on whether you use low wines with lots of tails,or just a wide hearts cut,or a narrower more pure hearts.then again it also depends how fast or slow(degree of smearing) you ran the first low wines...probably alot more also.
bout the time I finally figure it all out I will turn the other keg I got in to a thumper and confuse the hell outta myself some more. All those different results from a keg potstill...
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Re: My Journey

Post by Wooday »

raketemensch wrote:Had my 3rd cuts party with my wife tonight...
That right there is winning at life.
Every marriage should be so blessed with a shared passion.
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

skow69 wrote:Have you read Ian Smiley's book, Making Pure Corn Whiskey? His method makes a nice clean whiskey in two distillations. Here is a link. http://nopanic.fr/wp-content/uploads/20 ... illers.pdf
It was one of the first books I read about distilling, but it was a while ago and I've been meaning to re-read it now that I have a better idea of what he's talking about.

Another thing I've been wondering about is what kind of effect aging feints before re-running them would have. As the chains break and re-form over time, would that help with the flavor after a re-distillation, or would re-distilling basically reset all of that time?
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

jb-texshine wrote:bout the time I finally figure it all out I will turn the other keg I got in to a thumper and confuse the hell outta myself some more. All those different results from a keg potstill...
jb
Heh, I'm just about to do the same. I have it all planned out, I only need <$20 of materials to do it, but I haven't figured out a good way to mount it yet.
Wooday wrote:That right there is winning at life.
Every marriage should be so blessed with a shared passion.
Well, "booze" isn't always the best shared passion, but it's working well so far. :thumbup:
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skow69
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Re: My Journey

Post by skow69 »

raketemensch wrote:Another thing I've been wondering about is what kind of effect aging feints before re-running them would have.
I'm afraid you'll still have feints when you put them in the boiler. And storage becomes an issue quickly. You might look into hydroseparation, though. It's an idea promoted by Harry and Myles, I think. There should be some threads hereabouts. Expect controversy.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
I'm not an absinthe snob, I'm The Absinthe Nazi. "NO ABSINTHE FOR YOU!"
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raketemensch
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Re: My Journey

Post by raketemensch »

skow69 wrote:I'm afraid you'll still have feints when you put them in the boiler. And storage becomes an issue quickly. You might look into hydroseparation, though. It's an idea promoted by Harry and Myles, I think. There should be some threads hereabouts. Expect controversy.
Thanks, I'll dig around a bit.

Everybody's always talking about barrels, I think I need to open a carboy factory.
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