need help with what equipment to buy

huxley · Post by **huxley** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:22 am

I need help buying my first distilling equipment.

I want to buy a boiling vessel with a electric heating element, plus buying a condenser, I will be aiming for a pot still set up : I'd like a 5 gallon, but most 5 gallons I've seen on the net dont come with a port for the heating element.
I dont have the tools at home to punch a hole in the steel for that. The only ones I've seen with a hole for the heating element is a 3 gallon and a 8 gallon.

1. would a 3 gallon be to small, like not worth the effort because you'd get so little volume out of it.

2. if I get a 8 gallon ,and fill it with 4 to 5 gallons, how long would distilling take , just an average guess?

3. what is the average again for a 5 gallon batch of mash, after you distill it , it gives you how much liters again? sorry I forgot , it's in my notes somewhere.

Thank you

ShineRunner · Post by **ShineRunner** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:55 am

You're going to find a wide variety of opinions on this, but I think a 5-8 gallon still is good for starting out. I started on a simple 5 gallon pot with inverted bowl. 1/2" copper to a worm in a bucket. Not glamorous by any means, but it works. I still use it for small batches since my keg has a minimum fill level of 2.5-3 gallons to cover the element. I would lean towards the 8 gallon still myself, if you had to find something that was ready to go with a port for the element already.

If you did want to make the hole yourself, it really isn't that hard. If you have a drill, you can make it. A cheap harbor freight step bit has way outlasted it's less than $10 price tag. I understand that is not for everyone, so do you what you need to.

Length of stilling time depends on a lot of things. Mostly power in (element power in your case) and how quickly you can condense the vapor. What are you making? Whiskey? Neutral? Vodkas? That affects things as well.

I'll say that on my 5 gallon pot, filled with about 3.5-4 gallons of whiskey wash, I think it took me about 2 hours to strip a run. Generally I would say I get about 1-1.25 gallons or so of low wines from that. Repeat 3x and you've got enough for a spirit run. That'll take a lot longer and end with maybe a half gallon of keep cut. All rough figures that depend on your starting ABV, keep cuts, etc.

Scale up by about 1.5X for your 8 gallon pot and you'll be in the right neighborhood.

SR

Post by **Danespirit** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:40 pm

1. Don't go for a 3 gallon, you'll regret it after a few runs. You're really better off with a 5 or even 8 gallon boiler.
2. Like ShineRunner explained, it's up to how much power your element delivers. Furthermore, boiler insulation (if any) and ambient temperature add to the equation.Also...how much alcohol there is in the particular charge.
For a 5-8 gallon boiler, I'd say your element has to be at least 2 KW....3 KW is even better if your breaker unit can handle that much. It'll vastly reduce the heat up time.
I can compare it somewhat to my still a stripping run with 5 gallons, takes me half an hour before the run starts (2 KW element). My takeoff-rate is about 4L an hour.
3. The parent site has a yield calculator, that is pretty much accurate. Again, it depends on how much alcohol you've got in there, are there feints from a previous run added etc.

Edit: There are ways to attach an element without welding/soldering. A hole saw and a drilling machine are all you need. Most elements are 1" NPT by the standard.

Post by **joeyfla** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:20 pm

Considering an alembic still, Opinions.

I've been using a 20 liter stainless steel milk can from Temco, dome top from Mile Hi with 2" to 1/2" adapter and clamp. Made my own Liebig and it works on ceramic stove top.

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Post by **Danespirit** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:35 pm

Joey, you still looks fine..
Do you discover any kind of surging or huffing, when running on a stovetop?
Some ceramics are made for induction...a "normal" stainless steel" boiler won't work on such a device as it ain't magnetic (a point to consider for others playing with the thought of ceramics).

Post by **Pesty** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:44 pm

Danespirit wrote: Edit: There are ways to attach an element without welding/soldering. A hole saw and a drilling machine are all you need. Most elements are 1" NPT by the standard.

just a correction that heating element threads are 1" NPS.. as in straight threads so be sure to get the right coupler.

I'd say go for an 8 gallon as well. ferment 12-14 gallons, two strip runs with backset and a single spirit run will suffice for most of what you'll need. Add in a thumper down the road, or two, maybe a Boka head or whatever you decide. the 8 gallon will handle all of your basic home needs.

Post by **joeyfla** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:46 pm

Nope....it seems to work fine....which surprised me the first time I ran it. I thought it wouldn't work with the lip on the bottom of the can...gave it a try...wow how simple. I run a submersible pump from Harbor Freight in the sink to the Liebig. Easy to clean in the kitchen away from prying eyes of neighbors.

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Post by **Danespirit** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:41 pm

Yes you're right Pesty...I made a typo there...NPS it is of course. Thanks for correcting.
I also use my kitchen sink for my small still. The pump on the picture is all I need.
My bigger rig is in my bathroom (25 L milkcan)...same pump. One exception though, all my reflux stills have another similar pump for the RC.

Post by **Pesty** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:20 pm

Danespirit wrote:Yes you're right Pesty...I made a typo there...NPS it is of course. Thanks for correcting.

I ended with some internal NPT tri clamp adapters for my electric heating project. it was either buy all new stuff or re-tap what I had. got super lucky at a local salvage place. They had a 1" NPS Tap for 20 bucks.. those darn taps are well over 100 bucks for a good one and this was a brandy new military surplus still in the rubber coating. re-tapped the stuff i had and now i'm working on making some for others.

jb-texshine · Post by **jb-texshine** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:49 pm

Op,
1. Too small
2. 3-4 hrs
3. 5 gallons of wash at 10% abv single run distilled slowly will give you roughly a half gallon of hearts +or- for cuts to your taste.
Go 8 gallon ,run five at a time ,strip then spirit run would be best.

Post by **rgreen2002** » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:00 pm

The best part about my 5 gallon starter still was that it let me know I needed a bigger still

Some great advice up there huxley... good luck!

Post by **Euphoria** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 am

Get the biggest stuff you have room and budget for. Just my 2 cents worth, but I feel that you can't have too big of a mash boiler or still. I run some big pots (allowed by by this forums standards,) and still wish that I had bigger stuff. (26 & 13 Gallon still pots for Reflux or Pot Stilling, and an 8 Gallon Thumper for my Pot Still set-up runs.) I know a lot of folks here make some really good stuff with much smaller set-ups and I'm not knocking them at all, as it is their choice. But I personally don't like to spend a lot of time making or running small batches. I find it too time consuming and it creates a lot more work than going with larger equipment. I've never known anyone to say "Gee, I wish I had a smaller still."

Post by **still_stirrin** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:34 pm

Euphoria wrote:...I've never known anyone to say "Gee, I wish I had a smaller still."

Not true...my primary boiler is a keg. But my gin still is a 16 qt stockpot.

For making specialty products like gin, or geist, the small still is well adapted because you won't have to run a gallon, or more of your neutral to get a couple of bottles of product. For example, the 3X run for a vodka is well suited in the smaller still...strip run with the big potstill, then spirit with the reflux column on the big still, followed by a polishing run on the small potstill (or reflux column if you have one).

Sometimes the "small batch" size is perfect for a small potstill. But, it is indeed a secondary still. Most of my product comes off of the 1/2 barrel boiler.

Its all about "the right tool for the job". Some get by with a channel locks and a crescent wrench, while others have a full set of sockets and boxed end wrenches. (Euphoria, it looks like you're one of the latter, huh?)
ss

Post by **Danespirit** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:45 pm

+1 Ss

Here is how my secondary still looks like.
A sieve plate in a pot still with a Liebig for cooling.
2 KW hotplate and SCR to take care of the heat.

Post by **rad14701** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:13 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
Euphoria wrote:...I've never known anyone to say "Gee, I wish I had a smaller still."
Not true...my primary boiler is a keg. But my gin still is a 16 qt stockpot.

+1... My recent stills are much smaller than what I started out with decades ago... I had two that were larger than what we now consider "hobby scale"... My current boilers are 2, 3, 4, and 7.5 gallons... The 4 and 7.5 gallon boilers can be run on electric and are my go to boilers most of the time...

Tapeman · Post by **Tapeman** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:36 pm

rad14701 wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Euphoria wrote:...I've never known anyone to say "Gee, I wish I had a smaller still."
Not true...my primary boiler is a keg. But my gin still is a 16 qt stockpot.
+1... My recent stills are much smaller than what I started out with decades ago... I had two that were larger than what we now consider "hobby scale"... My current boilers are 2, 3, 4, and 7.5 gallons... The 4 and 7.5 gallon boilers can be run on electric and are my go to boilers most of the time...

I agree, smaller is a good way to start. But also, if you don't consume a quart every day then your needs can be part of the equation. The biggest drawback to a small still is just like a big one - you gots to let your hootch age and that is just painful first go round.

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Post by **rad14701** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:02 pm

Tapeman wrote:
rad14701 wrote:+1... My recent stills are much smaller than what I started out with decades ago... I had two that were larger than what we now consider "hobby scale"... My current boilers are 2, 3, 4, and 7.5 gallons... The 4 and 7.5 gallon boilers can be run on electric and are my go to boilers most of the time...
I agree, smaller is a good way to start. But also, if you don't consume a quart every day then your needs can be part of the equation. The biggest drawback to a small still is just like a big one - you gots to let your hootch age and that is just painful first go round.

Truth be told, smaller is NOT a good way to start - within reason... A 5 - 8 gallon boiler is better for starting out than smaller boilers... That means that 3/4 of my boilers are smaller than I'd recommend for novices... Proper cuts requires very small collection jars so after-the-fact cuts can be made prior to blending... I have a very large collection of 4oz/120ml baby food jars, plus tons of jars in virtually every size up to 1 gallon jugs... More times than not, I collect in the baby food jars because I keep myself occupied during runs by measuring the %ABV of every jar and recording statistics... I also use 8oz and 16oz jars for pot stilled spirit tuns... For stripping runs I collect in gallon jugs...

huxley · Post by **huxley** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:21 am

thanks everyone for the great advise. I'm going to go with a 8 gallon.

I have a question about the heating element and a controller for it.
I'd like to post a link to the item. I just don't if if you are allowed to post links to websites that sell stills or not???
I'd just like to now some experts advise on it, if it would be a good one or not. (is that item used to control you heating element ???)

I can only run 110v plug at my home at this time.

here are the specs:

120V 15 AMP UNIVERSAL VARIABLE VOLTAGE ROUTER SPEED/FAN/MOTOR CONTROL CONTROLLER

This controller has three settings: on, off and variable. You can use the dial to adjust the fan speed (high, medium or low). 120V 15 amp.
It comes with a 110V/60hz power cord.
This controller is designed to be used with centrifugal fans and brush type motors only. It will not work with brush-less type or soft/slow start type motors.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1217/ ... 1474481417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I want to find something like this , but affordable, trying to look at my options

thanks everybody

Post by **Danespirit** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:50 am

It should work.
The heating element is basically just a resistor.
If the one you've linked to is too expensive, try E-bay and search for SCR (Silicon Controlled Rectifier).
You should be able to find one that is adequate for US voltage and they are dirt cheap out there.
One like this for not even 10$:

: Throw a casing around it, and be done..

Post by **greggn** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:08 pm

> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1217/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ... 1474481417

I recommend that you stay away from those cheap router speed controllers. Many users, myself included, have had them melt under less-than-full-load conditions ... and I modded mine to add a heatsink.

huxley · Post by **huxley** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:00 pm

should I buy a heating controler and element from a place like milehi. https://milehidistilling.com/product/11 ... ontroller/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

is this more safer ?

Post by **greggn** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:02 pm

I've built two controllers using the Auber SSVR ...

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=332" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

... but Danespirit's SCR recommendation above is even easier.

Post by **rad14701** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:33 pm

I have that 4000W unit that Danespirit posted... It's the only controller I have purchased rather than build from electronic components...

Post by **Truckinbutch** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:40 pm

greggn wrote:> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1217/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ... 1474481417

I recommend that you stay away from those cheap router speed controllers. Many users, myself included, have had them melt under less-than-full-load conditions ... and I modded mine to add a heatsink.

I agree . 15-20 amp speed controllers work well for what they are designed for . Long term high amp heating elements are not within their parameters .

huxley · Post by **huxley** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:55 pm

would something like this work ? ( sorry I dont know all this electric heating

https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Johnson ... ontrol.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Post by **Pikey** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:47 pm

huxley wrote:would something like this work ? ( sorry I dont know all this electric heating

https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Johnson ... ontrol.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Yes and No - That is not a power controller, it is a thermostat. It may work as a thermostat but will be of no benefit to you because stilling is not a temperature controlled operation.

You need to control the power going through your element, NOT the temperature.

Something like this is what I use (Not actually this one - I couldn't find mine)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10000W-SCR-Vo ... 1517035520

Sorry it's uk eboy - but your search should flag up a US version.

Post by **Danespirit** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:01 am

huxley wrote:should I buy a heating controler and element from a place like milehi. https://milehidistilling.com/product/11 ... ontroller/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

is this more safer ?

Not that I have anything against this company, I'm sure they sell ok equipment.
However, 200 $ is a hell of a price tag. It's more than I 've invested in ALL my distilling equipment, a stainless steel heating element, controller etc. included.

I could build a 3", 6 plated flute for the same amount (that will be if I do all the work..welding etc).
I've bought a 5 KW SCR for not even 9 $ with free shipping, so far it has run for about a year without any trouble at all.
It's similar to this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-220V-5000W ... SwGtRX1-dT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It doesn't even need a casing, just plug and play.
The decision and the money is yours...

huxley · Post by **huxley** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:42 pm

thanks again for everyones great advice.

I'm going to try and build one. My father said he will help me, he knows more about electrical stuff than I do.

my father is not a distiller or a home brewer, he asked me if I could find him a diagram ( electrical diagram ) for building the heating regulator.

do you guys have any true and tested diagrams for a 110v heating regulator.

oh, a 8 gallon tank needs what type of hot water element , how much watts?

Thanks everyone

Post by **HDNB** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:59 pm

you may want to look at stilldragons diy heating controller. i can't say from personal experience but it's priced right and other have written good things about it. pretty sure it comes with instructions

go 5500w at 220vac. you can turn them down, but you can't get them hotter than the rating.

Post by **Danespirit** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:52 am

Well, as I wrote..just buy one on E-bay (bought my element there ,too).
It's not worth the time or effort making a circuit board, buying the parts, and soldering it all together when you can buy one for around 10 $.
I'd say a 3000 W or 3 KW element, is fine for an 8-gallon boiler. Of course, a higher rated element will shorten the heat-up time.
Be aware of how many amps your breaker box is capable of delivering before you buy the element.
Remember, it's the total power input from the controller that governs the heat in the boiler...not the wattage of the element.
Also, the element HAS to be stainless steel and the gauge of the power cable is of utmost importance (a too small dimension will make it a toaster instead).

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